[fsn32]

Final 4 appearances since and including 1979 (Bird V Magic):

Big 10 - 18
Big East - 12
ACC - 28

National Champions during same period:

Big 10 - 5
Big East - 5
ACC - 7


In the past 27 years 17 of the champions have come from these 3 conferences.

I think my biggest arguement is how many of those final four appearances (I use final four because the national champion will be in that list) were from Duke and North Carolina and how many were from the Big Ten's top 2 teams? If you eliminate UNC and Duke's appearances, you probably cut that number by 2/3's. Eliminate any 2 Big Ten teams and you still got an overwhelming majority of appearances.

Here are the numbers: (

Final Fours (since 1979) I looked at each final four to make sure, so I could have made a mistake since the numbers above don't match with my numbers below. Feel free to correct it. (I could have sworn Wake Forest made a final four once)

Big Ten:

Indiana 4
MSU 4
Michigan 3
Illinois 2
Wisconsin 1
Ohio State 1
Minnesota 1
Iowa 1
Purdue 1

ACC:

Duke 10
UNC 8
Maryland 2
Virginia 2
NC State 1

Take the numbers for what you want. It speaks to me that although the Big Ten doesn't win championships, they sure are well represented in the Final Four in terms of differing teams.

I don't think I can follow you on this one... that would be like saying... "The NFC won a lot of Super Bowls in the 70's, 80's and 90's" ... "Yea... if you count Dallas and San Francisco... but don't count them because they win too much."

The Big Ten has been solid but the ACC is statistically the best.

(Wake did make a Final Four, but it was before 79.)

[belcherboy]

Final 4 appearances since and including 1979 (Bird V Magic):

Big 10 - 18
Big East - 12
ACC - 28

National Champions during same period:

Big 10 - 5
Big East - 5
ACC - 7


In the past 27 years 17 of the champions have come from these 3 conferences.

I think my biggest arguement is how many of those final four appearances (I use final four because the national champion will be in that list) were from Duke and North Carolina and how many were from the Big Ten's top 2 teams? If you eliminate UNC and Duke's appearances, you probably cut that number by 2/3's. Eliminate any 2 Big Ten teams and you still got an overwhelming majority of appearances.

Here are the numbers: (

Final Fours (since 1979) I looked at each final four to make sure, so I could have made a mistake since the numbers above don't match with my numbers below. Feel free to correct it. (I could have sworn Wake Forest made a final four once)

Big Ten:

Indiana 4
MSU 4
Michigan 3
Illinois 2
Wisconsin 1
Ohio State 1
Minnesota 1
Iowa 1
Purdue 1

ACC:

Duke 10
UNC 8
Maryland 2
Virginia 2
NC State 1

Take the numbers for what you want. It speaks to me that although the Big Ten doesn't win championships, they sure are well represented in the Final Four in terms of differing teams.

I don't think I can follow you on this one... that would be like saying... "The NFC won a lot of Super Bowls in the 70's, 80's and 90's" ... "Yea... if you count Dallas and San Francisco... but don't count them because they win too much."

The Big Ten has been solid but the ACC is statistically the best.

(Wake did make a Final Four, but it was before 79.)

What I am saying is that if you rank a "conference" as being the best, you have to include ALL the teams and their accomplishments (we are grading since 1979). One of the criteria given by someone in this thread was the amount of final fours. Well if you look at the Big Ten, they have had a much higher percentage of teams make the final four. It is true they haven't won as many championships, but when comparing the middle to bottom teams, the Big Ten has a big advantage in terms of success when grading by final four appearances (just like the ACC has a big advantage with their top two teams).

Also, Minnesota made the final four in the early 80's. I'll look up the exact year when I get to work.

[bigsmooth]

SCAR, i love you bro, but bringing pitt into the arguement of good big east teams in the 80's is way off. i will give you st. johns, gtown, syracuse and villanova. but the ACC was just as good with UNC, NC State, UVA, Maryland and Duke. if you want to go by national championships:

ACC- 2 in the 80's , 3 in the 90's , 2in 00's
BIG EAST-2 in the 80's, 1 in the 90's, 2 in the 00's
BIG TEN- 3 in the 80's, i in the 90's
SEC- 3 in the 90's, 1 in the 00's
now to your UConn arguement on how you would take their accomplishments over any other institution the past ten years. let's look at duke and carolina

UCONN -265-77 overall, 2 national championships, 8 NCAA appearances
DUKE -290-60 overall, 1 national championship, 10 NCAA appearances
UNC -234-104 overall, 1 national championship, 8 NCAA appearances
if you are basing this on national championships, then by all means you are right with UConn. but the body of work tells me different. i just used the ACC as an example, but im sure kentucky could be thrown in that as well. Anyone feel free to re-check my numbers, as i did this on the fly, but the facts are the facts. and im sure LUConn will chime in, but you cannot put louisville in your big east facts till this year my man. i do not include miami's accomplichments in football before they came in the ACC, and im sure the geeks at elias sports bureau do not either.

[LUconn]

Cant really argue with that. The impressive thing about Uconn is that it is a top 1 or 2 program right now that has been coming on in the last 10 years and it was built from nothing by 1 man. CT has never been known for basketball and it's not a real fun school to attend with it's agriculturalbackground and harsh winters. Building a dominant hoops program there is like building a city the size of LA up in the North West territory.

[belcherboy]

I don't like basing an arguement on the "best conference" by national championships. One or two teams can have great success in terms of national championships and that does not make their conference necessarily better than others. I think it is better to measure it by final four appearances (I would prefer elite eight appearances, but I think that would be WAY too difficult to calculate) If I have time this week (I'm in the middle of coaching my team in the Michigan state tournament, so time is little in my world right now) I will try to do a broader comparison which would include the Big East and maybe even the SEC. What makes it difficult to compare is because of how many teams are in the Big East.

Regardless, whatever comes of this arguement, it will be 80% opinion. Facts will go both ways, but it is fun to discuss and I like learning about what other conferences and teams have accomplished. I tend to get drowned in Big Ten things and rarely know what happens in other conferences, outside of their top 25 ranked teams. (probably why I rarely do well in my NCAA tourney picks)

[TIMSCAR20]

You are correct Belcherboy, Minnesota did go to the final 4 in 1997. Add one more to the Big Ten total. There is a link to the NCAA website that I will post.

[TIMSCAR20]

Here is the link: http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/story/7636039


And Smoothie you can't tell me that Pitt wasn't nice in the mid to late 80's with my boy Brian Shorter, Jerome Lane (Send it in Jerome!!!, broken backboard with a one hand dunk jerome), Charles Smith, and Sean Miller. Ok so they had one good group but they were tough. I will withdraw Pitt from the conversation. [/i]

[bigsmooth]

they were a nice team, but a three year span of 25-8, 24-7, 17-13 is hardly a great team of the 80's. you big east lovers are great! you know im gonna give you stats SCAR! btw, who was their coach then???

[LUconn]

Why are we great? Because the Big East has historically been very good, the last few years has made a case for being the best, is the best this year and will most likely be the best from now on? You had your day in the sun but you sold your soul and made your bed with football, now sleep in it.

[jcmanson]

Very good discussion. As belcher boy points out 80% of the outcome is based upon personal opinion.

[TIMSCAR20]

Smoothie, I can't remember who was coaching Pitt back then. Was it an ACC coach or something?

[bigsmooth]

easy LUConn. you are the best this year, no doubt about it, and you are making your case to be the best historically. you guys have always had a complex about it though. you are always gonna have the ACC forced down your throat as long as you live in ACC country, and as long as dick vitale, mike patrick and billy packer are living. i actually have a lot of respect for UConn and some of the other big east programs, and if i could have it my way i would love the ACC and big east to go back to the way they used to be. SCAR, it was paul evans, who used to coach your boy david robinson at navy.

[TIMSCAR20]

Thats right I remember Paul Evans. Didn't he get a crack at the Tennessee job too before Allan Houston's dad or maybe right after.

[bigsmooth]

im not sure. wade houston at tennessee, now that is a blast form the past. where is he now?

[TIMSCAR20]

Good Question. I don't think he has been a DI head coach since his son signed a big contract....Same with Joe Jelly Bean Bryant. He was an assistant at LaSalle (my old neighborhood in Philly) and I used to talk with him once a week but then when Kobe signed the contract he stopped coaching and moved to Beverly...Hills that is.

[bigsmooth]

swimming pools, movie stars.

[Hold My Own]

Scar you used to talk to Kobe's dad?

[TIMSCAR20]

HMO I knew you would pick up that name I dropped . But yes JB and me used to talk all the time because I kept up with LaSalle and my best friend at home was coaching and JB always liked his players. You know how that goes. Anyone in the circle of influence of good players gets much love from assistant coaches. I was sad when he quit because I lost my inside track at LaSalle. BTW Joe Bryant was one of my favorite players as a Sixer when I was groing up but Kobe is 10 times better.

[jcmanson]

Kobe is a ball hog