[jmdickens]

one more thing the 212 thing in conference would read 222 if Birmingham Southern was eligible in 2003-2004

[Hold My Own]

How soon we forget the man brought you the same thing your "savior" did and that is a BSC Title...1 of 2...that deserves respect in its own right

[jmdickens]

I have given respect for the championship trophy....it was a great year for LU

[WWJFD]

Yes, we have better talent than many of the Big South teams, but let's look at our roster of the players who make an impact on the team.

Hubbard (eesh) 2nd year * *starts
Blair 4th year *
McLean 1st year *
Holland 2nd year
Brew 1/2 season
BJ 1st year
Rell 3rd year *
Smiity 2nd year *
TBGBG 1st year

To me that is a team that has not played together long. Yes, early on we struggled in conference, but going 7-2 in conference to finish was a good sign. Winning the last 2 road games in conference was good (you still need to play, forget the Radford bull people say). Players have learned their roles, played together for 1/2 (Brew) to a whole year now. I think the chemistry is really coming together. We really only lose Blair next year and TJ is a nice fill in for leadership and high character player, I think the program is in good shape.

Now I compare that to High Point's starters: (16-13 last year)
AZ Reid Jr
L. Quick Sr
M. Jeff So.
J. Minnis Jr.
Bowen So.

Winthrop
Bradshaw Sr.
Williams Sr.
Martin Sr.
Jenkins Jr.
Gaynor Jr.

I am not worried about our team and the future. Let's get behind the staff and team!

[WWJFD]

The more I look at it, I see us alot like High Point from a year ago (8 wins 8 losses) in conference with 2 senior starters and a younger team and they only lost 3 in conference this year (2 to WU and 1 to us at home). I can see the same type of season next year for the Flames if we all stay intact.

[TDDance234]

I almost forgot about Bannister.

What an addition he's going to be.

[lureal]

the disrepect for what it takes to finish in the top half of any league let alone the top 3 is ridiculous. we had one player receive all conference status. so yes we have talent but so does every other team. they have scholarships too. some like dickens are bent on their negative agenda on dunton. maybe the mountain will be better when dickens is gone and his negative assumptions are no longer cast as ascertains. "i have met dunton, but have no desire to meet him". i would not want to meet someone that i have been dedicated to slandering either. why ask question, explore accusations in a Christian way when i can just sit on by keyboard and tear him down. just take note of where we are and where we will be in the coming years. the nigerian pipeline is re-connected and a point guard is in house.

[WWJFD]

I watched TJ quite a bit and had the chance to meet him. He is quick and a very good defender. He will be the floor leader that will get the job done. No disrespect to J Holl and friends at that point now, but we are talking a guy who contributed in the ACC for 2+ years before his nagging injury. Simply UVA had Singletary and the wriitng was on the wall for TJ. TJ helped UVA when Majestic Mapp was trying to comeback and SS was recruited in.

[flameshaw]

Well, like I said earlier, if some here want to continue to support mediocrity, that is certainly your prerogative. I was unpleasantly surprised to find out that outside of our conference, we didn't have one quality win.
Some will continue to blame the referees, the players, the conference and have the wait until next year spirit, and that is fine (Chicago Cubs have thought they were going to win "next year" for how many years now)?
Regardless of who the coach is, the program is in the bottom 24% of D1 teams. We are 3rd place in the 29th worst conference in D1. That is nothing to be proud of or over-excited about.
We may win the BSC tournament in the next few days, and I hope we do. In my opinion, that would be the only way that we consider not taking a different direction next year.
I think a 177 game audition is statistically a very fair one and would even out the poor excuses regarding the referees, conference, tough losses, etc. But a .435 average is only good in baseball.

Go Flames!!!!!!!

[LUconn]

You can't compare us nationally. I know that's the goal, but we're just not at that level yet and we never have been. No matter how good we may or may not have played UNC for one half. Now if you think RD hasn't been up to snuff in the BSC then sure by all means, suggest we get rid of him. But don't act like you want to get rid of him because we're not a top 100 team. Most of the time that takes many years and multiple successful coaches.

[Hold My Own]

Thats the truth right there...and not to mention even after taking 1000 steps forward you can bring in one guy that makes you start at square one (Hanky)

[lureal]

again statistics can always be twisted but we have had the best big south run in our history under dunton. he has work to build the framework to carry the program to new heights in the coming years. you call mediocrity 212 and 3. and please we play in the big south so let's be patient about knocking off high mids and highs before we build a foundation. regaining strong recruiting ties takes an investment of time. maybe you know more about how easy it is to compete for talent in the recruiting wars. we should be proud of this team instead the critics create gloom and doom. thanks guys for battling the road, conference, florida,oklahoma,byu,seton hall,

[LUconn]

while that's one of your more reasable posts lureal,

you call mediocrity 212 and 3.

You can't completely discount last season. It may have been an anomoly, but it happened.

[SuperJon]

Just because I won't be home all afternoon and want you guys to argue like little girls, here is something a smart man outside of the LU bubble once said to me:

RD has never ever overachieved while he was in charge... always been underachievers... SJ, The flames have more $$$, better facilities, nice town, can get any student based on grades or transfers in school, why the heck can't they have at least one winning record the last 10 or 11 years??? And 6 of those RD was in charge....

Discuss.

[Hold My Own]

hmmm....was that a keydet?????


Anyways, I'd disagree...that interim season he had was an over achievement and in my mind a few of those first 3 years

[LUconn]

Just because I won't be home all afternoon and want you guys to argue like little girls, here is something a smart man outside of the LU bubble once said to me:

RD has never ever overachieved while he was in charge... always been underachievers... SJ, The flames have more $$$, better facilities, nice town, can get any student based on grades or transfers in school, why the heck can't they have at least one winning record the last 10 or 11 years??? And 6 of those RD was in charge....

Discuss.

oops, he left out the culture of LU. Must have been an oversight on his part.

[flameshaw]

You can't compare us nationally. I know that's the goal, but we're just not at that level yet and we never have been. No matter how good we may or may not have played UNC for one half. Now if you think RD hasn't been up to snuff in the BSC then sure by all means, suggest we get rid of him. But don't act like you want to get rid of him because we're not a top 100 team. Most of the time that takes many years and multiple successful coaches.

OK, we can't compare ourselves nationally, even though that is the goal. Where are you happy measuring us? How about the top 50% of all D1 teams? We are currently 258 out of 330+ teams, so not there.

Lets then compare ourselves to where we came from. We have come a long way from playing games in the LCA gym with no scholarship players, no coaching staff, no equipment, etc. Jefferson Forest High wasn't much better. We have had two players come through that actually played in the NBA for a short time, impressive. We have won a big game or two, Virginia comes to mind and there are probably others. We have had some great people play for LU that were not necessarily great basketball players.

How about the BSC? I don't know how long we have been in the league, my guess is at least since 1990, so let's say 17 years. How many regular season titles have we won? 1 maybe 2? We have won two tournaments I believe. So, based on that, I am sure we have under achieved the goals even the coaches have set for themselves. Would anyone here be happy with two more league titles in the next 17 years? Does anyone think we have really made significant strides in the last 10-12 years? During that time we have not even kept pace in our poor conference. Winthrop has dominated in the last several years and has made huge strides on the national level, so it can be done, we are just not doing it.

How about comparing ourselves to ourselves, in the area of fan support. I remember many times the Vines being full or almost full on school nights, the atmosphere was electric. I remember the first Midnight Madness when the Vines was almost half full to watch a practice, with no promotions of free food, etc. I remember being at the tournament at LU and getting there two hours before game time with hundreds of other fans to get good seats for the games (Matt and Aluma years). I remember over 3000 kids driving from LU to Charleston, SC to watch us beat Campbell for our first ever NCAA appearance, and not one, sat down the whole game. Now we have students complaining that it cost $3 to go to the game and would rather watch it in their dorms. I remember the nice padded seats at center court where people paid big bucks to reserve those seats for the year, now it looks like a ghost town. So, I think we have not improved even using ourselves as examples.

Finally, you may have noticed that I have spoken about periods of time that have spanned the last three head coaches. It is not all RD's fault, it is not all Hanky's fault, (one could easily argue that RD won the BSC Tournament with Hanky's players). You certainly can't say it was JM fault, he took us a long, long way. But, in my opinion we have been stagnant way too long, we have not made any significant progress against the conference, the national scene, or even ourselves. Based on this, I hope we win the BSC tournament, and that the next recruiting class is as good as everyone thinks, (which is NEVER that case at any school), and we dominate the conference (should be our minimum goal), and improve nationally. But as a fan I have been patient enough, anything less, and I believe a new direction is necessary immediately.

I do not say this lightly, there was a time I felt the same way several years ago, and a change was made, and look where we are now. However, I am confident that the new athletic administration will find the right person to move us forward if they deem it necessary to do so.

Go Flames!!!!!!!!

[LUconn]

A lot of what you're saying makes sense, but it seems like you want to punish RD for the last 12 years of stagnancy (is that a word?) He's been successful in the conference, brought us 1 of our only 2 BSC trophies, and kept us in the upper half of the league. It's the first steps, and we have had a recent setback, but I just don't see how you can let him go based on HIS body of work thus far.

[flameshaw]

A lot of what you're saying makes sense, but it seems like you want to punish RD for the last 12 years of stagnancy (is that a word?) He's been successful in the conference, brought us 1 of our only 2 BSC trophies, and kept us in the upper half of the league. It's the first steps, and we have had a recent setback, but I just don't see how you can let him go based on HIS body of work thus far.

How about a career record of 77-100 at LU? Should it be our goal to be "successsful" in the conference? How do we measure success in the conference, one game over .500, two, three? "Upper half" of the worst league in D1? A lot of people here complain about how the BS sucks, well shouldn't we then accept nothing less than to be the best of the suckers? (I thought that was pretty funny myself). I would hate to think that I would be content with anything less than dominating a conference that "sucks".

Finally, I don't know how you figure I am blaming RD for 12 years of anything. I distinctly remember saying "it is not all RD's fault". Six years and "it's just the first steps"? Maybe you are just more patient than me. So far all you have proven is that regardless of facts, stastistics, or what someone clearly states to the contrary, you have your mind made up regarding RD and the status of the program. That is fine with me, free speech, free country.

I would however like to know your schedule when my employee review is due. Based on your criteria of getting the job done, you could probably convince my boss that I walk on water and maybe double my salary.

Go Flames!!!!!!!

[bigsmooth]

man i remember that trip to anderson for the big south tournament. those were some high times for LU hoops. it was a very large LU crowd there and we were rockin the house. i will say this on RD. when you play in a league like the big south i do not feel that finishing in the top half year after year is a great thing. we should be competing fot the championship every year. i do not think it is realisitic for schools like CSU or VMI to do that, Liberty can.

[WWJFD]

I know there is RPI, SOS, and all that, but seriously, are we one of the worst conferences in Division 1. Numbers aside here are the conferences I feel we are comparable or better than by scanning on the different one's in alphabetical order.

America East, Big Sky, Ivy, MAAC, Mid-Eastern, Northeast, Southland, SWAC, Sun Belt.

I think apples for apples if we matched up seeding wise conference vs. conference, we would be competitive or defeat many of them.

Just a thought

[WWJFD]

I think LU has the tools in recruiting with Okon overseas and Sherard with his east coast ACC/Big East ties. I still feel 2 more years of keeping this staff in place and see. After Smitty's class is gone, if we have won a BSC, then I will be convinced a change is needed.

[mrich]

I don't think coaches should get a 7 year trial period.

[jcmanson]

Don't we have a game in the first round of the conference tourny tonight? Alright just checking.

[flameshaw]

I know there is RPI, SOS, and all that, but seriously, are we one of the worst conferences in Division 1. Numbers aside here are the conferences I feel we are comparable or better than by scanning on the different one's in alphabetical order.

America East, Big Sky, Ivy, MAAC, Mid-Eastern, Northeast, Southland, SWAC, Sun Belt.

I think apples for apples if we matched up seeding wise conference vs. conference, we would be competitive or defeat many of them.

Just a thought

WWJFD,

With all due respect "numbers aside" and "I feel" do not an argument make. I will agree, there isn't a huge difference, but those are the numbers based on a stastically revelant population of data.

GO FLAMES!!!!!!!!!