[Purple Haize]

Being anti police brutality does not mean I’m anti cop. I understand they have a terribly hard job.

As for what I think they should’ve done? Listened to the old man. Give him his five minutes, show you hear him, and then enforce the curfew peacefully. Cops across the country have been doing that exact thing all week.

I was recommending those options to you so that you would have a greater appreciation for the rules and procedures that you seem to question. You say you understand they have a terribly hard job to do but by your comments you reflect that you don’t. That “old man” had his 5 minutes. He was given the opportunity to be heard and express his opinion. But at the end of that time he chose not to leave. So your solution is to give him 5 more minutes? What if he doesn’t leave then? What about the rest of the Protestors? Where do you draw the line and how do you remove someone who doesn’t want to be removed?
I’ve seen what’s gone on in other communities. Remember I’m the one who started a thread pointing out what I’d like to see more of. But at some point a line has to be drawn. And when it is it has to be enforced. That’s what that video shows. It’s certainly not pretty. But it was warranted. Why have rules if you’re not going to enforce them. And if you want to challenge the rules, I’m ok with that too, but be ready to pay the price and don’t whine about it

[Jonathan Carone]

A cop was heard yelling “push him back!” That led two both officers pushing him, one with their hands, one with his baton.

If cooler heads would’ve prevailed and they would’ve said “take him away” instead of “push him back!” then maybe the cops would’ve grabbed him by the arm and forcibly removed him from the area.

I’m not against the use of force. It is warranted and needed at times.

I am, however, against the use of excessive force when it’s not necessary.

[TH Spangler]

What demacrates are doing and calling for is close to insane. Defunding the police?

Im proud that consertive Trump supporters supported George Floyd's family and demonstrated patience with the all the ugly violence and looting.

Yesterday I think Biden called us deplorable again. I'm praying the demacrates think twice before they distroy our nation playing the race card until November.

[olldflame]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but Keith Ellison, the scumbag domestic-abuser AG of MN, has upped the charges on Chauvin to 2nd degree murder. This is a disaster of an overreach, and probably intentional on his part. To convict him on 2nd degree murder will require proving beyond a reasonable doubt that there was an intent to kill, which will be extremely hard to do. It's a hung jury waiting to happen, or worse yet, an acquittal. We think things are bad now?

[TH Spangler]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but Keith Ellison, the scumbag domestic-abuser AG of MN, has upped the charges on Chauvin to 2nd degree murder. This is a disaster of an overreach, and probably intentional on his part. To convict him on 2nd degree murder will require proving beyond a reasonable doubt that there was an intent to kill, which will be extremely hard to do. It's a hung jury waiting to happen, or worse yet, an acquittal. We think things are bad now?

I thought about that.

The demacrats have invented one thing after another since Hillary was defeated. I'm wondering if alot of this stuff now is because Trump republicans just got authority to subpoena dozens of Trump-Russia investigators.

I think theres so much going on we dont know about. I look for past establishment leaders with something to hide to start chiming in soon.

[thepostman]

Police dept's have been overstepping the constitution for decades now. Due to that there is a feeling of mistrust in the black community along with poor communities. But it also goes back to a justice system that focuses far too much on jail time and not enough on rehabilitation. Obviously this is a big discussion but it is certianly a huge contributing factor to what we are seeing in our country right now. It has been an institutional problem which will take a lot of work and lot of changed mindsets to fix.

It has bubbling just under the surface and it seems this may be the time we could see real change. If only all of us could focus on these racial injustice problems instead of which party will gain what but that is far too idealistic. Especially in an election year.

[Purple Haize]

Yeah this “Defund the Police” narrative came out of nowhere, at least for me. It’s an incredibly idiotic idea. Especially when you add to the fact these are the same people who don’t want you to have guns

[thepostman]

I'd like the funding for the militarization of the police to be cut drastically but I'd also like to see that money redirected to increased pay and the improvement or working conditions for cops, along with increased training. They are severely underpaid and that is part of the problem as well. It is very hard to recruit cops and because of that punishments tend to be tougher to deal with.

[Jonathan Carone]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but Keith Ellison, the scumbag domestic-abuser AG of MN, has upped the charges on Chauvin to 2nd degree murder. This is a disaster of an overreach, and probably intentional on his part. To convict him on 2nd degree murder will require proving beyond a reasonable doubt that there was an intent to kill, which will be extremely hard to do. It's a hung jury waiting to happen, or worse yet, an acquittal. We think things are bad now?

I’m not a lawyer, but reading the laws, it’s textbook third degree murder. I don’t see any way they convict second degree.

[Jonathan Carone]

I'd like the funding for the militarization of the police to be cut drastically but I'd also like to see that money redirected to increased pay and the improvement or working conditions for cops, along with increased training. They are severely underpaid and that is part of the problem as well. It is very hard to recruit cops and because of that punishments tend to be tougher to deal with.

The funding has all gone to equipment and not salaries/training. That’s why it needs reform more than anything. You have underpaid guys who are not given the resources. That results to having a chip on their shoulder and a shorter fuse than if they were compensated and trained the way they deserve.

There are bad cops, but by and large, this is a systemic problem at the core of American law enforcement. This will continue to happen and the system will continue to churn out bad cops because of its brokenness.

[Purple Haize]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but Keith Ellison, the scumbag domestic-abuser AG of MN, has upped the charges on Chauvin to 2nd degree murder. This is a disaster of an overreach, and probably intentional on his part. To convict him on 2nd degree murder will require proving beyond a reasonable doubt that there was an intent to kill, which will be extremely hard to do. It's a hung jury waiting to happen, or worse yet, an acquittal. We think things are bad now?

I’m not a lawyer, but reading the laws, it’s textbook third degree murder. I don’t see any way they convict second degree.

Let the record show, Your Honor, we don’t disagree on everything

[TH Spangler]

Speaking of problems at the justice department? Some in Washington are above the law.

[olldflame]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but Keith Ellison, the scumbag domestic-abuser AG of MN, has upped the charges on Chauvin to 2nd degree murder. This is a disaster of an overreach, and probably intentional on his part. To convict him on 2nd degree murder will require proving beyond a reasonable doubt that there was an intent to kill, which will be extremely hard to do. It's a hung jury waiting to happen, or worse yet, an acquittal. We think things are bad now?

I’m not a lawyer, but reading the laws, it’s textbook third degree murder. I don’t see any way they convict second degree.

Totally agree. "Reckless disregard for life" is unquestionable, but "intent to kill" will be hard to prove. Problem is for someone as twisted as Ellison it's a win/win. If he gets a murder 2 conviction, he's a hero. Anything else and we are faced with the likelihood of more rioting, which he would probably like even more.

[olldflame]

I think a conviction on 2nd degree is possible. The basis would be his decision to continue when people were basically telling him he was killing the man. I think it will be difficult to get a unanimous verdict either way, but a hung jury will likely still set off the mob. I think it's very possible he was trying to kill him, and would be totally fine with a conviction, but IMHO the best course would be to charge murder 3, get the sure conviction and advocate strongly for the maximum sentence (25 years and $40,000 fine).

[Purple Haize]

I think a conviction on 2nd degree is possible. The basis would be his decision to continue when people were basically telling him he was killing the man. I think it will be difficult to get a unanimous verdict either way, but a hung jury will likely still set off the mob. I think it's very possible he was trying to kill him, and would be totally fine with a conviction, but IMHO the best course would be to charge murder 3, get the sure conviction and advocate strongly for the maximum sentence (25 years and $40,000 fine).

If I’m the officers lawyer I don’t even think about taking a deal at this point. On 3rd degree I’d be willing to listen to offers. 1st or 2nd why deal when ive got a great chance of getting my client off with no jail? Ellison has given the Prosecution no options and the Defense all the cards

[ATrain]

Manslaughter charges are still in play as well, right?

[Purple Haize]

Manslaughter charges are still in play as well, right?

I dunno. Maybe we could get ballcoach to post links from his internet search

[ballcoach15]

I took a few criminal justice classes in college. It's going to be hard for him to get a fair trial due to pretrial publicity. I think the prosecutor will have better chance getting a manslaughter conviction than a murder conviction. Now granted, I have not watched the news, nor read anything on the incident, other than just seeing headlines on Facebook posts.

[Purple Haize]

Such peaceful protestors

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/nationa ... d-1.631954

[thepostman]

That happened a week ago. Keep up man.

[Purple Haize]

That happened a week ago. Keep up man.

I told you I haven’t been keeping up with the news too much (and it’s been glorious). I did notice a picture of uniformed folks guarding the Lincoln Memorial so I guess this is some context

[thepostman]

Yeah it was when things were really crazy with fringe groups just going crazy all over dc and ruining it for everybody. DC was nuts last weekend.

[Purple Haize]

Yeah it was when things were really crazy with fringe groups just going crazy all over dc and ruining it for everybody. DC was nuts last weekend.

I’ve just followed the local stuff and connected with my friends. Looks like one has a really nice program started in my old home town that I find encouraging
I’ll probably get ramped back up here now that we are returning to work

[Purple Haize]

How are you supposed to even have a “dialogue” in a situation like this? Yet if you don’t attend you will be called all sorts of things. This is what I get for “Surfing and Grilling”

[thepostman]

That mayor is in a rough spot. I think at this point just showing up and listening is all that can happen. The real beneficial conversations will have to happen when there aren't large groups of people. I hace quite a few people I know who were in dc today and it seems to be overwhelmingly positive.

But yeah, we need sports so I can distract myself some.