If you want to talk ASUN smack or ramble ad nauseum about your favorite pro or major college teams, this is the place to let it rip.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By ALUmnus
Registration Days Posts
#495444
Our b-team lost a friendly to a decent squad. PANIC! They haven't been playing well, sure, but is that new?

All the problems that were there that Jurgen came in to fix are still there. That's my worry. It's the same story year after year.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#495448
This is obviously an entitlement problem. Hey, we are from the US and we have better facilities and lots more money than those other teams. Plus, we have been told we are the best our whole lives. Did I mention we are from the US, we deserve it. :roll:
By Hold My Own
Registration Days Posts
#495450
So what you're saying is #WorldCupReady
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#495453
flameshaw wrote:This is obviously an entitlement problem. Hey, we are from the US and we have better facilities and lots more money than those other teams. Plus, we have been told we are the best our whole lives. Did I mention we are from the US, we deserve it. :roll:
Pretty sure no one has ever thought US Soccer was anything but 2nd rate for decades. It's just now catching up with the rest of the World. I understand your sarcasm but it is misplaced
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By adam42381
Registration Days Posts
#495455
If it's American, it ought to be better.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#495460
BuryYourDuke wrote:We've hit a low here right? I don't agree with those calling for Klinsmann's job, but things need to pick up soon. Last night was pitiful.

Is Freddy Adu, err Julian Green out of the 4th division yet?
It's a low under Klinnsmann.

Our problems run multiple levels deep. Klinnsmann's decisions tactically are an issue but that's just the tip of the iceberg. Our domestic league being in the world's offseason doesn't help things.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#495464
Is Klinsmann the head of USA Soccer? Its going to take changes there and of course a decision by MLS to move their season in line with the other leagues of the world along with whatever other issues may need to be addressed
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#495479
BuryYourDuke wrote:MLS is going to do what's best for MLS. So, they will never move the schedule to the European calendar. I love MLS, but they can't compete with football, and you have climate issues for several of their clubs. Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver in late January? Heck Chicago would be a problem.

I do agree though that this is a major issue for the USMNT. Just not one that is fixable in the foreseeable future.
This is the hard part. We are trying to build a league and a national team at the same time. Unfortunately, what's best for the league is rarely what's best for the national team.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#495508
Purple Haize wrote:
flameshaw wrote:This is obviously an entitlement problem. Hey, we are from the US and we have better facilities and lots more money than those other teams. Plus, we have been told we are the best our whole lives. Did I mention we are from the US, we deserve it. :roll:
Pretty sure no one has ever thought US Soccer was anything but 2nd rate for decades. It's just now catching up with the rest of the World. I understand your sarcasm but it is misplaced
We will just have to agree to disagree on this one........................ no harm no foul.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#495516
It's going to take a paradigm shift at USA Soccer, not just the USMNT. There needs to be greater talent development at the younger levels as well as retention of the particularly excellent players within the program instead of losing them to other interests. Klinsmann can't do all that by himself.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#495546
The thing is though, especially basketball, how many of those young people have grandiose visions of multimillion dollar contracts that for may will never come as opposed to playing for your country?
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By bluejacket
Registration Days Posts
#495548
BJWilliams wrote:The thing is though, especially basketball, how many of those young people have grandiose visions of multimillion dollar contracts that for may will never come as opposed to playing for your country?
?
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#495558
I had a long explanation planned out, but it boils down to this: USA Soccer and the USMNT have a lot of work to do if they want to get kids interested in wearing the "red, white and blue" and be a major player on the world stage like the USWNT is. That goes for the World Cup, the Olympics, any major international soccer competition, instead of watching the best athletes playing in the NFL, NBA or MLB.
By thepostman
#495562
I thought soccer was "growing"
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#495564
thepostman wrote:I thought soccer was "growing"
It's going to take an entire generation before we see significant changes.

I'm very interested to see if soccer picks up steam because of parents not letting their kids play football.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#495565
It is...the problem lies in the fact that while it is growing, we aren't seeing the top talent on the US roster, and we're not talking Klinsmann's roster only, but the U23, U20, U17, etc, national rosters as well.
By thepostman
#495567
I like soccer and watch from time to time but find it hard to believe it will ever become anything more than what it is now. I played from the age of 5 until I was 13 and was told it would explode in popularity by the time I was in my 30s. It didn't happen and I stopped playing on favor of other sports and I am in my 30s now and I wouldn't say popularity has exploded.

Most kids, like myself, who grew up playing through middle school have small interest in it but that is where it ends.

Maybe I am out of touch
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#495569
Maybe you are...but I have to say that I think USA Soccer is out of touch as well.

If you look at a lot of the top countries in the men's world rankings, I'd be willing to bet that for many of them, their top athletes play soccer (with a few exceptions). What do our top athletes play in the US? Football...or basketball. Imagine if a guy like Rob Gronkowski played goal for us, or LeBron James went up to head a corner service from Mike Nugent with Kevin Durant (I know Nugent is a stretch but he is a kicker).
By thepostman
#495571
Cable television has exploded since we were kids. There are many more outlets in which soccer has the opportunity to be on.
By thepostman
#495572
Also the ones who are diehard soccer fans always seem to take it personally when anybody even suggests soccer will never be much more than a niche sport. Why do diehard fans care so much?
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#495573
Soccer will never be bigger than football or basketball. I doubt it'll be bigger than baseball. It will overtake hockey if/when MLS takes the next step.
By thepostman
#495574
Agree with that completely jon.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#495575
Another thing to remember: the population of the United Kingdom is roughly 20% of the population as the US. Even if we had as many die hard soccer fans as England, it would feel like less because it's a smaller portion of our population.
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By Schfourteenteen
Registration Days Posts
#495666
tl;dr: rich kids play soccer, mls screws development, unaware parents are often sold a bag of goods, small sided games are new because of Jurgen, GotSoccer is the worst thing ever, I still don't care about MNT success.

Soccer is a white collar sport here, which is generally not the case in many other places. In Europe, they've created a model that rewards clubs for taking the best(ability, not financial) players and putting them in the best environment. We take kids with deep pocketed parents and put them in our best environments, which understandably are not as developed as some in Europe.

The environment is catching up, but we haven't figured out that our best coaches need to be with the players at 8-12, considered the primetime for player skill development. Instead, our best coaches within the youth system are muddling around at 15-18(where the money is), when the players are long identified as having solidified skill traits.

Soccer's pay to play system for the best talent is the result of a labor agreement between the MLS and the USSF. FIFA regulates and mandates solidarity pay for a club's work in a player's development anytime a player is sold. If a player is sold for $2 million, clubs that trained the player as a child are due x number of dollars depending on the amount of time spent with the club. Many youth academies are primarily funded using this money, which allows and incentivises them to put their best players in their best environment. The MLS/USSF agreement blocks youth clubs in America from collecting these payments, creating fundamental changes in a youth club's business model. How do we fund our better coaching, capital projects and facility rentals? Player registration fees and fundraising tournaments, which in turn also increase player registration fees. Hello white collar parent social clubs who enjoy spending money, cheering their kids on and taking family trips to Las Vegas and Disney soccer tournaments. I could get more into the parent side of things, but they are much more involved as a result of needing to see an ROI and often end up stunting their child's growth as a player. Check out the DeAndre Yedlin lawsuit for more info here.

In comparison to the developmental curves of basketball/football players, recognize the vast difference in the amount of compared time spent researching/perfecting player development. Coaches teach players who become better coaches who teach better players. The cycle is ingrained in the sport's culture. Baseball is the perfect example of this when compared to Soccer in America. In football and basketball, the US looks good internationally because of the head start from a popularity and coach education standpoint and a reputation of being the way out of poverty in the US. Don't pretend the AAU system is somehow creating superstars. They, like the NCAA, are simply making bank off their inefficient methods that aren't challenged by a younger Europe, who happens to also have soccer.

Soccer here has been built by moms and pops and the occasional businessman. People who were motivated to bring soccer here didn't exactly have credentials to run a successful academy program. A lot of those individuals are still involved at the highest levels, whether it be for income of self validation purposes. Anyway, they built a system that's fair and representative of all involved. More businessmen (some pretending to be coaches with British accents) are in the mix now and, while the system has succeeded in growing the game, it's become large enough to where the wallets are able to jam up any progress that may affect their incomes.

So with the unheard of freedom that Jurgen has been given, he's used that influence to work toward restructuring the youth developmental system. 2017 will be the first year that small sided games at younger ages will be mandated by the Federation to all affiliates. Its common practice in Europe because a player will get more touches on the ball and become more creative and proficient in small situations/tight spaces, but clubs and coaches here get away with the claim that playing 11 v 11 at age 10, 11, and 12 better prepares them for the full sided game so they can increase player registrations, team counts and consequently their pockets. Our parents who are new to soccer hardly know the difference, and that's the biggest struggle the system currently faces. The average person isn't knowledgeable to know what their kid should know how to do at age 8 or 10 or 12 and is easily swayed by charismatic coaches flaunting college connections or accents or a focus on "development" or worst of all, the almighty GotSoccer point.

The lack of parent understanding is incredibly apparent here compared to Europe, as half the crap (like GotSoccer points) would be laughed off the pitch by any parent whose child played for a club.

All that to say, I don't care if he sucks as a MNTHC if he can be a part of a change to better the youth system. Time will tell whether it's better now.
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