[Purple Haize]

Addicts deal with their addiction every day. It doesn't go away, its always there. They can pray to conquer their desire and many do successfully. The same is true of Lying, Greed or any of Catholicism Big 7

[Purple Haize]

i want to touch boobs too.

I thought about going there. but I figured either you or haize would and didn't want to steal anyone's thunder I chortle audibly.

Those who can't, talk about it
Those who can just keep doing....

[RubberMallet]

There's no such thing as an evil desire? Scripture tells us explictly that the battle of the flesh is a battle of the mind. Our desires are a direct result of our fallen nature and where our heart is directed to (sin). And only through Christ and a regenerated mind will those desires change. You're derailing your argument from the start with the language you're using. Timothy Dalrymple does the same thing and I just don't think it works. Now he's a lot smarter than me, but I think he's wrong.

To answer the question, "can the gay be prayed away?" (which itself is a horrible way to put it). Yes, if God so chooses.

reading Radical by platt has really been kind of an eye opener in regards to this. True love to Christ like he calls for heals all. everything else falls into place. everyone else we love, our entire lives are directly a result of that love that we are supposed to have for God. i think the church certainly needs a change of direction on this issue but its certainly not the usual, "stop being on the wrong side of history" change that people advocate.

[SuperJon]

There's no such thing as an evil desire? Scripture tells us explictly that the battle of the flesh is a battle of the mind. Our desires are a direct result of our fallen nature and where our heart is directed to (sin). And only through Christ and a regenerated mind will those desires change. You're derailing your argument from the start with the language you're using. Timothy Dalrymple does the same thing and I just don't think it works. Now he's a lot smarter than me, but I think he's wrong.

I never said there's no such thing as an evil desire. I have evil desires all of the time. I believe that those desires don't become sins until we act on them either physically or mentally. I have desires to gossip, to steal, to overeat, to lust, etc but until I act on those desires, they're just desires. If I go to a restaurant and want to eat everything on the left side of the menu but instead choose to eat a proper meal, I've resisted the desire to sin. Until we are in heaven or Jesus comes back to earth, no amount of having our minds transformed will take away all of our evil desires. If sin is present in the world, we will have the desire to sin.

[prototype]

I'll bite. What I'm about to post is a series of message between me and a group of friends. For the most part, it hits on what he asks, but there are places where it probably strays a little bit. I took out an entire section where we talked about homosexual marriage so if there's a little bit that doesn't flow, that's why. Rip me apart, but this is my stance on it:

Homosexual desires in and of themselves are not a sin. A desire alone cannot be a sin. Sin requires action. I desire to touch every boob I see. Acting on that desire, or even thinking about/considering that desire is where it becomes a sin. We are told to flee from sexual desires (1 Corinthians 6:18).

Having the desire or attraction to another person of the same sex is not a sin. Loving someone of the same sex is not a sin. Lusting after or acting on that desire is where it becomes a sinful action. Just like I can't go grabbing the butt of every attractive female, a person with homosexual desires can't go do that with someone of the same sex without it being a sin.

If you have homosexual desires and tendency, and if you love someone of the same sex, then more power to you. Love them until you die. Unfortunately, I cannot support you in saying that you're allowed to take that love sexual. There is nothing wrong with loving someone of the same sex, but sexual actions between two people of the same sex is, according to the Bible, a sin.

Just as I must fight the desire to lust after every C-cup in a push up bra that walks through the doors of my church every weekend, they have to fight the desire to lust after the person they love. Is it fair? Absolutely not. That's not the point though.

I feel for them. I really do. I believe that because there is sin in this world, people are sometimes dealt an unfair hand. It's not fair that a child is born with autism. It's not fair that a child is born with a chemical imbalance and leads to depression and suicidal thoughts. It's not fair that I can't have sex with anyone I want to. It's not about being fair. It's about a belief system and a holy and righteous God that created us to be like him.

It's not fair that the only person to ever live a sinless life was beaten, tortured, and killed so that one day I might have the chance to be made holy and righteous. If we want to talk about fairness, that's the ultimate injustice. But we don't mention that as being unfair because it worked to our benefit. We only look at things that are unfair if they go against us negatively.

I also feel for alcoholics. They should be able to have a drink with their friends if they want. But they can't because it leads to addiction and a cycle that they can't break free from. I feel for people with chronic illnesses. They should be able to live a happy and active life. But they can't because they have to save their strength for treatments or their bodies can't handle the activity.

In my mind, even though I think it's gross, I want people with homosexual desires to be in love, to have a great life, to get to experience the things that I experience with my wife. But I also want a lot of other things that God sees and describes as evil. I must submit my desires to his. That's where this entire thing in our society divides: are you willing to submit your desires to someone higher than you or do you want to decide what's right and wrong?

This is a tough subject. Nobody wants to offend anyone on this board. I consider some of you friends, even though I have never met most of you before. Jon - I think this was well said. I think we need to love the sinner and hate the sin. Do I want to say that all Homosexuals are going to Hell - No - that scares me, but down deep if your living in sin - how can you have a true relationship with the Lord. Being a Christian you have to believe that every word in the Bible is true and there are many places in the Bible that clearly says Homosexuality is wrong. Leviticus 18:22, Genesis 19:1-11, Judges 19:16-24, 1 Kings 14:24, and I could go on... Some ones that I think are pretty clear are -

Romans 1:26-32 -
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

1 Timothy 1:8-10
Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine ... (ESV)

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 -
Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NLT)

I think justification of sin is what is killing our Nation and ultimately going to lead to the rath of God bringing Fire down on His creation. We don't want to hurt anyone's feeling or push our beliefs on them, but isn't that what God wants us to do. In Matthew is clearly says that we should go out and preach/teach and win souls for Christ - why have we stopped doing this and worried about offending everyone?

For the people that say that they were born that way - they were - we are all born "sinners", but it's the choice to flee from it and do what is right and give our lives over to the Lord. Our country is under attack - not by missiles or Tanks, but by Satan - tearing apart our ability to decipher what is right and what is wrong, what is a sin and what isn't...

That's how I feel - you can beat me up for it, or you can accept it as my beliefs...

[lynchburgwildcats]

I am just curious as to what kind of statements you are talking about. Because some of the things I have seen labeled "bigoted", "homophobic", etc have simply been people stating their view which happens to be the same view I hold. Not condemning or even being hateful.

WEll I went to check the message board I was referring to and the mods finally, and wisely, deleted the thread, so I can't provide word-for-word quotes, but there were people saying homosexuals were evil, they were going to hell, homosexuals deserve to die, etc.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Being a Christian you have to believe that every word in the Bible is true and there are many places in the Bible that clearly says Homosexuality is wrong.

And that's up to interpretation. Just google it and you'll find Biblical scholars who disagree with the interpretations.

[prototype]

Being a Christian you have to believe that every word in the Bible is true and there are many places in the Bible that clearly says Homosexuality is wrong.

And that's up to interpretation. Just google it and you'll find Biblical scholars who disagree with the interpretations.

There are also "scholars" that think that Jesus never rose from the dead and his body was stolen, doesn't make it true. Tell me what verses that speak to homosexuality in the Bible that can be interpreted as a blessing of homosexuality?

Goes back to justification. The largest "so called" church in the country is all about making people feel better about themselves. That's not getting them to heaven, is it?

[BJWilliams]

Check out the discussion over on AGS:

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthr ... oken/page3

[lynchburgwildcats]

Being a Christian you have to believe that every word in the Bible is true and there are many places in the Bible that clearly says Homosexuality is wrong.

And that's up to interpretation. Just google it and you'll find Biblical scholars who disagree with the interpretations.

Tell me what verses that speak to homosexuality in the Bible that can be interpreted as a blessing of homosexuality?

And there in lies your problem, you assume that because something may theoretically not be forbidden in the Bible that it is thus theoretically blessed by the Bible. One does not automatically bless something by not forbidding it. The Bible doesn't have an answer for everything even though some folks try to make it have an answer for everything.

[Blessed1]

It just got real...

ESPN's Chris Broussard sparks uproar with Jason Collins remarks

Chris Broussard usually offers expertise on fast breaks and zone defense, but on Monday he drove right into America's culture wars by calling homosexuality "an open rebellion to God" and implying that gay people can't be Christians.

Speaking on ESPN's "Outside the Lines," the basketball analyst and former New York Times writer was discussing NBA player Jason Collins, who in a landmark move just became the first active player in one of the major pro sports to come out as gay. Collins revealed his sexual orientation in a first-person Sports Illustrated story.

"I'm a Christian. I don't agree with homosexuality," Broussard said. "I think it's a sin, as I think all sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman is.

"If you're openly living in unrepentant sin ... that's walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ," he added.

He also expressed some irritation that those who disapprove of homosexuality are, he says, labeled as intolerant and bigoted.

Broussard was not saying anything he had not said publicly before; in a 2009 blog post, he called homosexuality a sin after saying he nevertheless believed the NBA was ready for an openly gay player.

But with the far-reaching platform of ESPN — a top-rated network owned by Walt Disney Co. — Broussard took on a polarized subject at the top of a news cycle. So his comments exploded across social media.

Liberals and gay-rights proponents took Broussard to task. Kelly Dwyer of Yahoo! Sports wrote: "Gay young men and women have an impossibly tough time growing up and attempting to fit in, even as our culture shifts to become a more tolerant society. The last thing they need is to see someone like Chris Broussard, who ESPN (and by extension, the NBA) trusts as its voice both at games and in-studio, to be referring to them as sinners who are in 'open rebellion to God.' "

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv ... 7118.story

[ALUmnus]

Lynchburgwildcats = resident Biblical scholar

Teach us more about the Bible, Uncle Schuck, we learned it all wrong.

[bballfan84]

It just got real...

ESPN's Chris Broussard sparks uproar with Jason Collins remarks

Chris Broussard usually offers expertise on fast breaks and zone defense, but on Monday he drove right into America's culture wars by calling homosexuality "an open rebellion to God" and implying that gay people can't be Christians.

Speaking on ESPN's "Outside the Lines," the basketball analyst and former New York Times writer was discussing NBA player Jason Collins, who in a landmark move just became the first active player in one of the major pro sports to come out as gay. Collins revealed his sexual orientation in a first-person Sports Illustrated story.



"I'm a Christian. I don't agree with homosexuality," Broussard said. "I think it's a sin, as I think all sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman is.

"If you're openly living in unrepentant sin ... that's walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ," he added.

He also expressed some irritation that those who disapprove of homosexuality are, he says, labeled as intolerant and bigoted.

Broussard was not saying anything he had not said publicly before; in a 2009 blog post, he called homosexuality a sin after saying he nevertheless believed the NBA was ready for an openly gay player.

But with the far-reaching platform of ESPN — a top-rated network owned by Walt Disney Co. — Broussard took on a polarized subject at the top of a news cycle. So his comments exploded across social media.

Liberals and gay-rights proponents took Broussard to task. Kelly Dwyer of Yahoo! Sports wrote: "Gay young men and women have an impossibly tough time growing up and attempting to fit in, even as our culture shifts to become a more tolerant society. The last thing they need is to see someone like Chris Broussard, who ESPN (and by extension, the NBA) trusts as its voice both at games and in-studio, to be referring to them as sinners who are in 'open rebellion to God.' "

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv ... 7118.story

Good for Chris Broussard..Ive always been a fan. Super Jon well said

[RubberMallet]

i can hear it now "MY INTOLERANCE TO YOUR INTOLERANCE IS JUSTIFIED!"

[lynchburgwildcats]

It just got real...

ESPN's Chris Broussard sparks uproar with Jason Collins remarks

Chris Broussard usually offers expertise on fast breaks and zone defense, but on Monday he drove right into America's culture wars by calling homosexuality "an open rebellion to God" and implying that gay people can't be Christians.

Speaking on ESPN's "Outside the Lines," the basketball analyst and former New York Times writer was discussing NBA player Jason Collins, who in a landmark move just became the first active player in one of the major pro sports to come out as gay. Collins revealed his sexual orientation in a first-person Sports Illustrated story.

"I'm a Christian. I don't agree with homosexuality," Broussard said. "I think it's a sin, as I think all sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman is.

"If you're openly living in unrepentant sin ... that's walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ," he added.

He also expressed some irritation that those who disapprove of homosexuality are, he says, labeled as intolerant and bigoted.

Broussard was not saying anything he had not said publicly before; in a 2009 blog post, he called homosexuality a sin after saying he nevertheless believed the NBA was ready for an openly gay player.

But with the far-reaching platform of ESPN — a top-rated network owned by Walt Disney Co. — Broussard took on a polarized subject at the top of a news cycle. So his comments exploded across social media.

Liberals and gay-rights proponents took Broussard to task. Kelly Dwyer of Yahoo! Sports wrote: "Gay young men and women have an impossibly tough time growing up and attempting to fit in, even as our culture shifts to become a more tolerant society. The last thing they need is to see someone like Chris Broussard, who ESPN (and by extension, the NBA) trusts as its voice both at games and in-studio, to be referring to them as sinners who are in 'open rebellion to God.' "

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv ... 7118.story

Old news, this happened yesterday homie!

[lynchburgwildcats]

Lynchburgwildcats = resident Biblical scholar

Teach us more about the Bible, Uncle Schuck, we learned it all wrong.

Well, you did if you think it answers everything.

[prototype]

Lynchburgwildcats = resident Biblical scholar

Teach us more about the Bible, Uncle Schuck, we learned it all wrong.

Well, you did if you think it answers everything.

Wow. It does.

[ALUmnus]

Lynchburgwildcats = resident Biblical scholar

Teach us more about the Bible, Uncle Schuck, we learned it all wrong.

Well, you did if you think it answers everything.

And you know this because you've read it, right? Oh, that's right, how could the Bible possibly know about cars??!?!!!!

And.....thread derailed.

[jbock13]

Lynchburgwildcats = resident Biblical scholar

Teach us more about the Bible, Uncle Schuck, we learned it all wrong.

Well, you did if you think it answers everything.

Richard Hooker lives on...

[ATrain]

Lynchburgwildcats = resident Biblical scholar

Teach us more about the Bible, Uncle Schuck, we learned it all wrong.

Well, you did if you think it answers everything.

Give it up Shuk, he'll just continue to bleet like a sheep in George Orwell's 1984, never questioning what he's been taught. We've also already had this discussion here:

https://www.flamefans.com/forums/viewto ... le#p261612

[Purple Haize]

Lynchburgwildcats = resident Biblical scholar

Teach us more about the Bible, Uncle Schuck, we learned it all wrong.

Well, you did if you think it answers everything.

Give it up Shuk, he'll just continue to bleet like a sheep in George Orwell's 1984, never questioning what he's been taught. We've also already had this discussion here:

https://www.flamefans.com/forums/viewto ... le#p261612

I thought the sheep were in Animal Farm

[ATrain]

You're right Purple, they were...I'm getting old

[RubberMallet]

Lynchburgwildcats = resident Biblical scholar

Teach us more about the Bible, Uncle Schuck, we learned it all wrong.

Well, you did if you think it answers everything.

Give it up Shuk, he'll just continue to bleet like a sheep in George Orwell's 1984, never questioning what he's been taught. We've also already had this discussion here:

https://www.flamefans.com/forums/viewto ... le#p261612

faaaairly ironic

[Purple Haize]

You're right Purple, they were...I'm getting old

Smarter than I look!

[ATrain]

You're right Purple, they were...I'm getting old

Smarter than I look!

Not hard to accomplish in your case