[LUconn]

Who says this is a free market? If this were a free market, LU would be an FBS team right now because we say so and handing out 200 football scholarships with cash benefits. Collusion keep the little guys little is the norm in the NCAA.

[logic]

Who says this is a free market? If this were a free market, LU would be an FBS team right now because we say so and handing out 200 football scholarships with cash benefits. Collusion keep the little guys little is the norm in the NCAA.

Wrong. The market dictates who is FBS, not any particular school because "they say so" nor did I say anything about changing NCAA rules regarding scholarships.

It is a free market because teams like Rutgers and Maryland are free to leave the ACC if they think they have a better deal waiting in the Big Ten. Same goes for FSU and the Big 12. So if you're a champion of the free market, don't get upset if FSU bolts for the Big 12...It is no different than you taking your business elsewhere because of lower prices and/or better service/higher value/higher quality, etc.

Loyalty and the free market make poor bedfellows.

[Purple Haize]

Who says this is a free market? If this were a free market, LU would be an FBS team right now because we say so and handing out 200 football scholarships with cash benefits. Collusion keep the little guys little is the norm in the NCAA.

Wrong. The market dictates who is FBS, not any particular school because "they say so" nor did I say anything about changing NCAA rules regarding scholarships.

It is a free market because teams like Rutgers and Maryland are free to leave the ACC if they think they have a better deal waiting in the Big Ten. Same goes for FSU and the Big 12. So if you're a champion of the free market, don't get upset if FSU bolts for the Big 12...It is no different than you taking your business elsewhere because of lower prices and/or better service/higher value/higher quality, etc.

Loyalty and the free market make poor bedfellows.

Your wrong is wrong. Particular schools in particular conferences have a whole lot of say so.

[LUconn]

The market dictates who is FBS

If the market dictated who was FBS, we would be FBS. If anybody has the market right now (ie, the means and will) we do. Why are we not FBS? Why was there a moratorium at one point at moving from FCS to FBS? NCAA Division I decided on some rules that are preventing us from doing what we want. Who is the NCAA to make these rules? The member institutions decide on this. If you think that the have members don't get together and plan to keep the have-nots out or down or the NCAA doesn't intentionally play favorites with it's unilateral decisions, I don't think you've been paying attention to the NCAA's decisions for the past few years.

Now I guess an argument could be made that "free markets" include the freedom to collude, but I don't think that's what you were talking about.

[Purple Haize]

The market dictates who is FBS

If the market dictated who was FBS, we would be FBS. If anybody has the market right now (ie, the means and will) we do. Why are we not FBS? Why was there a moratorium at one point at moving from FCS to FBS? NCAA Division I decided on some rules that are preventing us from doing what we want. Who is the NCAA to make these rules? The member institutions decide on this. If you think that the have members don't get together and plan to keep the have-nots out or down or the NCAA doesn't intentionally play favorites with it's unilateral decisions, I don't think you've been paying attention to the NCAA's decisions for the past few years.

Now I guess an argument could be made that "free markets" include the freedom to collude, but I don't think that's what you were talking about.

Don't give him ideas of where to move the goal posts on what he did or didn't mean!

[Sly Fox]

Whoops, I guess I let this one slip by me yesterday. The Troy AD speaking about potential Sun Belt realignment ...

“The understanding is one-year,” Hartwell said of the seven-game league schedule for 2013. “In 2014, we go back to an eight-game conference season, which dictates us adding members, most likely the addition to some current FCS (Football Championship Subdivision – former Div. I-AA) schools, as long as they declare by the summer of 2013 to become FBS (Football Bowl Subdivision – former Div. I-A) members.”

Hartwell said the Sun Belt is being proactive in its approach of future additions, and the Troy A.D. mentioned several schools he believes might be good additions to the league.

“Two names to consider would be Georgia Southern and Appalachian State,” Hartwell said. “Both appear to be good fits for our league, and from a geographical standpoint, a good fit for Troy. I think those institutions could step in and compete well right away.”

Click Here for Full Story

[ballah09]

saw this on flamesnation....monmouth player tweeted this

E ‏@suckafree_100
just got word we movin up a conference!!

E ‏@suckafree_100
@daddy_mon idk yet prolly big south or CAA


big south makes the most sense

[jbock13]

So Monmouth could be joining as a associate member of the Big South for football? They're moving to the MAAC, which doesn't have football, so this makes the most logical sense that's what he means.

[BJWilliams]

And might make sense as far as them showing up on our schedule this year as well

[logic]

The market dictates who is FBS

If the market dictated who was FBS, we would be FBS. If anybody has the market right now (ie, the means and will) we do. Why are we not FBS? Why was there a moratorium at one point at moving from FCS to FBS? NCAA Division I decided on some rules that are preventing us from doing what we want. Who is the NCAA to make these rules? The member institutions decide on this. If you think that the have members don't get together and plan to keep the have-nots out or down or the NCAA doesn't intentionally play favorites with it's unilateral decisions, I don't think you've been paying attention to the NCAA's decisions for the past few years.

Now I guess an argument could be made that "free markets" include the freedom to collude, but I don't think that's what you were talking about.

Market does not always equal means. We have the means to go FBS but the market has dictated we don't have the market. IE...Lynchburg is 65th in the country and that wasn't high enough to prompt an FBS move in the initial round. If Lynchburg had 400,000 people it might be a different story.

Market in this case means TV advertising dollars going to schools/conferences with the most viewers glued to the screens. That is what drives realignment and FCS call ups as much as anything else. The "Free Market" dictated that Maryland and Rutgers, despite sub-par football facilities and limited success, were too valuable from a TV market perspective to be left out of the Big Ten, just the same way that UNC-Charlotte was deemed too valuable to be left out of CUSA.

[LUconn]

You're conflating a TV market with the economic market. Might as well add in grocery stores to your use of "market".

[Purple Haize]

You're conflating a TV market with the economic market. Might as well add in grocery stores to your use of "market".

Told you he would move the goal posts. He should change his name to Clinton! Ha

[logic]

No...the media market and the free market are two different things, but the media market is part of how the free market dictates who is FBS and who isn't. Obviously it is ultimately the conferences who decide, but their decisions are largely based on market forces (in this case a specific media market).

I used Rutgers and Maryland as two examples. Their large media viewing areas tell Delaney that in the "free market" of advertising/marketing/cable TV, their addition to the Big Ten will add value. I am sure he had a team of experts looking at BTN numbers 5,10,15 years down the road and seeing that adding these two was economically "viable" and should be pursued.

The market dictates who is FBS

If the market dictated who was FBS, we would be FBS. If anybody has the market right now (ie, the means and will) we do.

You stated that market was "means and will," and it really couldn't be further from the truth. Means and will is simply money and vision. You can have all of those two you want, but without being able to bring eyeballs to the table, goodluck getting the market forces to favor you.

Do you think UNC Charlotte has the total net revenues we do every year? Not even close. In fact they've had to cut their total budget the past two years. But they do have Charlotte, a larger TV market than Lynchburg, making UNC Charlotte more powerful in regards to overall economic market forces.

Now if we could only convince CUSA that our 90,000 online students represents 270,000 additional viewers, well, our stock just went up exponentially.

[logic]

You're conflating a TV market with the economic market. Might as well add in grocery stores to your use of "market".

Told you he would move the goal posts. He should change his name to Clinton! Ha

Hey at least Slick Willy balanced the budget. That is more than "conservative" G Dub Ya can say.

Gary Johnston / Ron Paul / Rand Paul > Typical Big Government Republicans

[LUconn]

You stated that market was "means and will," and it really couldn't be further from the truth. Means and will is simply money and vision. You can have all of those two you want, but without being able to bring eyeballs to the table, goodluck getting the market forces to favor you.

Do you think UNC Charlotte has the total net revenues we do every year? Not even close. In fact they've had to cut their total budget the past two years. But they do have Charlotte, a larger TV market than Lynchburg, making UNC Charlotte more powerful in regards to overall economic market forces.

You're making my point for me. There is a glass ceiling we can't get through. Needing an invitation to an existing conference is the artificial barrier. You're accepting that as a given and then looking at freedom from there. I say it's collusion of FBS schools that don't want their slice of pie to get any smaller disguised an an organization called the NCAA.

[thepostman]

I heard we were lured by the greatness of D3 athletics and the national attention D3 athletics brings an institution that we simply have decided to switch spots with Lynchburg College.

Of course this is just a rumor..but hey! It is just as likely to happen as all these other ridiculous scenarios we have read about for months.

[jbock13]

Remember that the Roanoke-Lynchburg TV market covers a lot of area, all the way from Smyth and Wythe to Buckingham county in the east... so it's not really 63'rd theoretically, it's just that it covers a ton of area, which makes the population larger. In fact, channel 7 is on cable all the way from Buchanan in the coalfields, to Mecklenburg Counties.

Plus we all know if Ron Paul were Sun Belt commish, he'd extend us an invite

[ATrain]

Remember that the Roanoke-Lynchburg TV market covers a lot of area, all the way from Smyth and Wythe to Buckingham county in the east... so it's not really 63'rd theoretically, it's just that it covers a ton of area, which makes the population larger. In fact, channel 7 is on cable all the way from Buchanan in the coalfields, to Mecklenburg Counties.

Plus we all know if Ron Paul were Sun Belt commish, he'd extend us an invite

And let me tell you how many people live in that huge swath of area: not many. Therefore, it is 63'rd.

[jbock13]

Huntsville and Tucson have bigger populations, but smaller TV markets, due to their coverage areas. That's my point though.

[rogers3]

Huntsville and Tucson have bigger populations, but smaller TV markets, due to their coverage areas. That's my point though.

For conferences like the SB, The Roanoke-Lynchburg market is just fine. I'm sure there are FBS teams that play in smaller markets- TV and other wise... La-Monroe, Troy State and Western Kentucky, for example. I think the whole market thing a no more than one of several easy excuses.

[Sly Fox]

The challenge for LU with the Sun Belt is not about market size but footprint. We are way east of their footprint at the moment. If they invite in Appy then that obviously brings us significantly closer.

The Sun Belt doesn't expect a big national TV contract so market size is not a consideration unless it is a whopper like Atlanta. Now C-USA is desperately seeking larger markets as they try to find a way to squeeze some dollars out of the networks. We obviously fit much better in their footprint. But I don't see us getting the call from them barring some more significant developments.

[Purple Haize]

The challenge for LU with the Sun Belt is not about market size but footprint. We are way east of their footprint at the moment. If they invite in Appy then that obviously brings us significantly closer.

The Sun Belt doesn't expect a big national TV contract so market size is not a consideration unless it is a whopper like Atlanta. Now C-USA is desperately seeking larger markets as they try to find a way to squeeze some dollars out of the networks. We obviously fit much better in their footprint. But I don't see us getting the call from them barring some more significant developments.

Did you just disagree with logic I am so telling

[logic]

No I would agree with Sly's statement there. I didn't talk about geography and sure, we're way out of the SBC footprint. Sly is a smart guy. The only place we disagree is the rust belt.

Any news from the Sun Belt? One would think they'll
be making moves soon.

[TH Spangler]

Sun Belt opts for patience
Jan. 26, 2013 11:00 PM

Written by
Tim Buckley

Rather than rush to replace Middle Tennessee and Florida Atlantic after the two schools finalized last week its plans to join North Texas and Florida International in leaving the Sun Belt Conference for Conference USA, the SBC has taken a patient approach to addressing league membership.

The Sun Belt acted quite quickly in replacing North Texas and FlU, tapping Texas State and Georgia State to join the conference in July 2013 — and essentially trading its footprints north of Dallas and in Miami with ones between Austin and San Antonio and in Atlanta.

Click Here for Full Story

Sun Belt focuses on teams, not market, for future
Jan. 26, 2013 11:00 PM

Written by
Tim Buckley

It's not exactly a new phenomenon.

But so much driving the current college conference realignment craze seems tied to television.

TV contracts.

TV market size and household penetration.

TV exposure.

When Conference USA finalized its addition of outgoing Sun Belt members Middle Tennessee and Florida Atlantic early last week, in fact, it touted the size of Nielsen TV Markets in which both universities are located.

Click Here for Full Story

[TH Spangler]

A look at how television market sizes compare for Sun Belt Conference football schools as of July 2013, Conference USA football schools as of July 2013 and prospective new Sun Belt members:

SUN BELT FOOTBALL IN 2013

Rank "» School "» Market "» Total TV households
No. 9 "» *Georgia State "» Atlanta "» 2,326,840
No. 45 "» *Texas State "» Austin "» 705,280
No. 60 "» South Alabama "» Mobile-Pensacola (Fort Walton, Fla.) "» 525,990
No. 118 "» Troy "» Montgomery-Selma "» 241,930
No. 124 "» UL "» Lafayette "» 229,320
No. 137 "» UL Monroe "» Monroe-El Dorado, Ark. "» 175,960
No. 181 "» Arkansas State "» Jonesboro "» 80,740