[prototype]

Back in the mid-80's (Think Aluma, Nuwoso, etc) I would drive from Raleigh to weeknight games all the time and the Vines was almost full for nearly every game.
The only thing that has changed is the product on the floor and better facilities. Winning cures everything. When does baseball start?

That was a good time, but it wasn't mid 80's. It was mid 90's. I was there for both those guys and graduated in '96. We had movies 10, no TVs...

[Purple Haize]

FWIW, I've said this before, back in my days as a student at G-W, I went to every home game, mainly (1) due to my love of the game and (2) having players in classes or on the same floor of the dorm I was in. Supporting your friends and your school. Part of the collegiate experience.

I think someone mentioned something like this earlier. How much a team and its coaches invest in the school outside of their sport can greatly affect student attendance.

[prototype]

FWIW, I've said this before, back in my days as a student at G-W, I went to every home game, mainly (1) due to my love of the game and (2) having players in classes or on the same floor of the dorm I was in. Supporting your friends and your school. Part of the collegiate experience.

I think someone mentioned something like this earlier. How much a team and its coaches invest in the school outside of their sport can greatly affect student attendance.

Agree with this and the players and coaches need to step up. Players and coaches need to walk up in the stands after every game and personally thank all fans for coming. They used to do this and i don't think they do it anymore. Would love to see Layer and his staff in Rot on game days shaking hands and inviting students to come fight with his team...

[GillsHill2013]

Layer and players before the game thanked us for coming the last couple games.

[BJWilliams]

I think Haize mentioned this in the discussion of another coach but I do agree that getting into the community is important. Visiting the schools and talking to the kids, interacting with LU students in the dining hall and the Tilley and inviting them "come fight with the team" on game days, even appearing in local parades (like the Lynchburg Christmas Parade that was this past Sunday) and doing storytimes at local libraries. Those are just ideas I had in my head but getting out to the people will not only endear you to them, but also help get them interested in coming to games to support the players they develop relationships with due to their involvement outside of basketball.

[JK37]

FWIW, I've said this before, back in my days as a student at G-W, I went to every home game, mainly (1) due to my love of the game and (2) having players in classes or on the same floor of the dorm I was in. Supporting your friends and your school. Part of the collegiate experience.

I think someone mentioned something like this earlier. How much a team and its coaches invest in the school outside of their sport can greatly affect student attendance.

Agree with this and the players and coaches need to step up. Players and coaches need to walk up in the stands after every game and personally thank all fans for coming. They used to do this and i don't think they do it anymore. Would love to see Layer and his staff in Rot on game days shaking hands and inviting students to come fight with his team...

To provide a personal example, recently the University where I work made the difficult decision to disband three athletic programs - totaling over 50 students. Out undegraduate student population is less than 2,000, so 50 is a sizable amount. The notice of the general student population was minimal. And while their reaction, or lack thereof, didn't shock me, it did reaffirm the pattern of separation between Student-Athletes and NARP's (Non-athletic Regular People) on most college campuses.

At large state universities, this isn't as big a deal because student attendance is more established as traditional. For mid- or small-sized colleges, its more vital that a connection to the general student population is encourged and maintained.

[phoenix]

Back in the mid-80's (Think Aluma, Nuwoso, etc) I would drive from Raleigh to weeknight games all the time and the Vines was almost full for nearly every game.
The only thing that has changed is the product on the floor and better facilities. Winning cures everything. When does baseball start?

That was a good time, but it wasn't mid 80's. It was mid 90's. I was there for both those guys and graduated in '96. We had movies 10, no TVs...

I was getting ready to say -- the Vines wasn't there mid 80s. I can remember the old gym being packed out and LOUD for home games, though. And the toilet paper tossing ....

[Sly Fox]

Forgive Flameshaw's memory in regard to timing. That was Early '90s but everything else was accurate. I posted pics of the TP on here somewhere. I am too lazy to look this afternoon.

[Naysayer1234]

Lets be objective here.
College Basketball is a business. Christian or Non-Christian.
If you don't produce then you get fired, you get replaced and another person gets a chance to take a crack at it.

Everyone seems to be saying the same thing generally but don't ignore the "white elephant in the room." This coach has had 3 and 1/2 years to get the program back to where it was in 2003-05. The leadership is just not there, one of his coaches is facing probation, and the usual mid level recruit we were able to get, here and there, is no where to be found.

Liberty Athletics has one obvious crutch that it can't seem to shake with bad coaches, this is based off experience btw. They seem to hold onto them for a season or two too long, or give them an ill advised extension. Anyone remember Ken Karcher? who got a contract extension for possibly the worst football run last decade and the messed that ensued after his dismissal. I mean it's really annoying. Be a professional, cut him loose and send him on his way.

I care more for the program than the coaching staff, I would like to see it do well but I'm a realist and this crew is not going to cut the mustard. Being a fan is one thing, being a student and paying a ton of money and indirectly supporting a failing product is madness. We deserve better, you deserve better, Liberty deserves better, and the alumni deserve better.
Waiting around every ten years for a trip to the Big Dance is not good enough anymore. Get someone who will buy in to what Liberty is all about and hang some more banners in the Vines.

Start a new post thread.

#Fire_Coach_Dale_Layer
#Beginning_of_the_End

[Purple Haize]

[adam42381]

This should be interesting...

[From the class of 09]

I don't think anyone is going to argue that Layer has to be gone after this year, barring an incredible turn of events in conference play. That said it doesn't help anyone to fire him midseason, so for now we wait...

[thepostman]

I was really nervous about where that post was going but it never went there which is nice. I doubt anybody can really disagree the post but I am sure some tool will

[Purple Haize]

I was really nervous about where that post was going but it never went there which is nice. I doubt anybody can really disagree the post but I am sure some tool will

Oh ye of little faith

[Kricket]

How much does waiting until the end of the year have to do with appearing patient to the next potential coaching candidate? I would think I'd appreciate the patience if I were the one who was going to take over next.

[FlameFanInCarolina]

I'm seldom a fan of midseason firings. If you promote an assistant coach and the team makes a solid run then it is almost impossible not to give that assistant the head job whether he is ready for it or not. I remember Frankie Allen taking over at Tech and after a few big wins they hired him and he was never successful. Finish the year, evaluate, do whats best for the future. Finish the season working as hard as possible to improve.

[JK37]

From multiple angles, I think I can speak to this. So, alright, I'll take a crack at it.

Lets be objective here.
College Basketball is a business. Christian or Non-Christian.
If you don't produce then you get fired

Food for further thought and commmentary: Does it have to be a business? Is it only a business? Can you adequately define "production" as you're using it here? And remember, this is an intercollegiate program based at an educational institution. In that context, production cannot be only one element, and it's many elements cannot ever be mutully exclusive.

...get the program back to where it was in 2003-05.

03-05 is FAR from the program's highest standard. In some ways, it bordered upon its lowest. So, let's not be brash.

Be a professional, cut him loose and send him on his way.

Cutting him loose in and of itself is not inherently professional in this case. How he is cut loose (if/when he is) is the key to professionalism and Christian testimony.

I care more for the program than the coaching staff

This almost renders nearly everything you said prior and after irrelevant to me. Generally speaking, coaches of this nature and in the environment of which we are speaking do understand the life they've chosen when they enter this particular vocation. But they are still fathers/mothers with families, children, etc. To cut such people loose solely on the basis of winning and losing is wrong. However, I grant you, both winning and losing - especially prolonged periods of either - are often byproducts of other things. For this reason, a careful examination of the program at season's end is certainly warranted.

indirectly supporting a failing product is madness.

I want to address this, but I cannot do so properly until you adequately define production/success as you use it. Please take time to do so. And define what production and success is; don't disingenuously take the lazy route and simply tell me what it is not.

If, as you admit with your original verbiage, the program was in bad sorts when it was taken over by the current Head Coach, are you saying less than four seasons is adequate time to return it to a level befitting your expectations? If so, I disagree. For my alma mater, I do not wish for flash-in-the-pan, lightning-in-a-bottle quick success. So, I will be patient.

We deserve better, you deserve better, Liberty deserves better, and the alumni deserve better.

What gives you the right to "deserve" anything? I'm genuinely asking what you've done to believe you have a right to feel entitled to such an opinion?

One of the wisest men I've ever known taught me the principle, "One is only entitled to an opinion if one can defend it." You have work left to do.

Get someone who will buy in to what Liberty is all about...

As a man, you will be hard-pressed to find anyone who more intuitively and passionately understands and buys into what Liberty is all about than Dale Layer. What would you say Liberty is all about? And what experiences of your own give you the right to claim that Dale Layer has not bought into "what Liberty is all about"?




My responses are genuine. My perspective is valid, I assure you. If you and/or others are game, then sure, let's have this conversation.

[adam42381]

This is more fun than I expected.

[olldflame]

The reference to 2003-5 being somehow a high point in program history is ludicrus on it's face as well as a dead giveaway as to "naysayer's" identity. 3 great days in March of 04 created some terrific memories for Liberty fans, but they don't change the fact that during those 2 seasons we lost as many games as we won, and had a disappointing first round loss in the 05 BSC tourney. The fact is at one point in 04-05 we were 2-11, which looks a lot like this year, so I guess in that regard we have actually achieved what he wanted.

[ballah09]

it is a business. When a college sees success it sees more enrollment meaning more money. also more time on television. Go ask Butler, VCU, George Mason and Boise State. and sorry if someone is losing you money you fire them you don't keep them around because they have a family by doing that you're potentially going to threatening other families by doing this aka going down under. Also there are other coaches out there who embrace Liberty mission, not just Dale Layer. Layer is a mediocre coach who has the history to back it up.

[JK37]

So, the decision is solely about money?

Does Liberty need the money??

[ballah09]

not really more about exposure (see Liberty and FBS).


Do you want Liberty to be D3? then Liberty can sit well with mediocrity. No coach can be fired for shotty results.

[Purple Haize]

So, the decision is solely about money?

Does Liberty need the money??

Performance on and off the court. That includes W-L, graduation rates, and compliance, both to the school and NCAA rules

[jinxy]

How many pages and posts do we waste on this discussion. You can sum it up in 3 or 4 sentences. Layer appears to be a strong christian man who had a mediocore resume and he was probably about the best we could get with the state of the program at the time. We gave him a ride, he cleaned up the image and probably the spirituality of the program but he just hasn't gotten the job done. The direction of the program is not clear and doesn't point toward success in the future. Let the season play out then make a move and hope to goodness that the improvemenet in facilities will help sway a coach who will not only embrace our mission but build a program in all facets.

[ProudLUAlum]

Ok...Well then I'll start making everybody happy with comments like:

"The guys played really hard tonight"

"I think they will ready for conference play and do well"

"It's ok guys, better luck next time"

"Just remember, it's just a game"

"We're all winners".....I think they should give em' a trophy and not keep score"



Is that the kind of crap you want? Because when people say stuff like this....they stay off "THIN ICE"