This is the definitive place to discuss everything that makes life on & off campus so unique in Central Virginia.

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By bluedevilflame
Registration Days Posts
#402822
Purple Haize wrote:
bluedevilflame wrote:I still think parking garages are a much better use of land than sprawling parking lots. A garage could fit over a 1,000 parking spots in a much smaller area. I just don't get it, it could save land that we could use for further expansion.

For example: VTech built a parking garage a few years ago that fits 1,200 vehicles
http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stories/ ... -new-spots
I think a powerful and attractive member of this board already posted this sentiment :D
I know, I'm just helping out the cause :D
By JLFJR
Registration Days Posts
#402893
Sorry, I just don't see it. I've explained this many times but I don't mind doing it again. The problem at Liberty is not a lack of parking spaces. The problem is too many students, faculty and staff want to park near DeMoss AND the number of parking spaces on the main campus actually exceeds the maximum number of spaces that campus roads will adequately serve.

If we built a large parking garage on the main campus, the traffic at peak times would be gridlock -- much worse than five years ago before GLTC bus service was established. I remember it taking at least 20 minutes to drive from Vines to Green Hall when classes were changing back then because many dorm students were driving to class. Now, they ride the bus and traffic is manageable. A parking garage on main campus with all the new traffic it would bring would make it impossible to provide that critical bus service like we do now.

The reason traffic is manageable now on main campus is because many of the spaces are assigned to dorm students, many of whom do not move their cars around much during peak traffic times Monday through Friday. Richard Martin explained to me recently that the reason we don't require dorm students on main campus to park in a satellite lot is because, if their spaces on main campus were assigned to commuters or faculty/staff who come and go once or twice a day, traffic would again be out of control. The free flow of busses in and out of main campus is critical to the operation of the university with all the growth we have experienced.

Richard also sees it as a positive to have more of a mix of commuters and faculty/staff parking near DeMoss. Last year, when faculty/staff only paid $50 and commuters paid much more, almost all faculty/staff chose to park near DeMoss. The problem there is faculty/staff are much more likely to drive in and out during peak traffic hours in the morning, at lunch and at the end of the day while commuters are more likely to come and go during off peak hours when their classes start and end. We still reserved enough premium spaces this year for all faculty and staff to park near DeMoss but it does help the traffic during peak hours if some of them choose to park in a less expensive lot and ride the bus in.

So, that means any new parking garage would have to be built across the highway in Campbell County where the new 1480 space lot was just built. This location has the best access to the bypass and to Wards Road via the new five-lane bridge that Liberty built over the railroad across from the airport recently. Traffic entering and exiting this site would not impact traffic on campus roads as badly as many other sites. But, at the end of the day, parking would be no closer to DeMoss than it is now. We would still have to run busses every few minutes to the new garage. What would be the benefit? And that is not a rhetorical question. There may actually be some benefit that we haven't realized.

Liberty is unique in that it is not surrounded by off campus housing options like most colleges are. We are surrounded by retail stores, the airport, an industrial park and a mountain. One large housing project is in the planning stages on the mountain. We need to make sure more off campus housing is built close enough to the university that frequent bus service is feasible and close enough that many will choose to ride their bikes or walk to and from school.

This Fall we saw some students trying to park at local businesses and walking to class. The property owners had to tow many of them. This is because the majority of the off campus housing is several miles away. They can't walk and bus service is not as frequent as it would be if the housing was close by.

The road system surrounding campus is not likely to change much in the future. It can only handle so much traffic and it is near capacity now. We are open to input and suggestions. When I met with the faculty on August 10, one nursing faculty member suggested a payment plan for faculty and staff to pay their parking fees. I implemented the installment plan on the spot. We need constructive criticism from faculty and staff. We only request that those with only negative things to say at least heed the admonition of Matthew 18 to first voice their grievances privately and in person to the administration before attempting to sew discord on a public message board. We would greatly appreciate that consideration! Thank you. :D
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By flamesfan30
Registration Days Posts
#402895
I never understood the parking garage envy. have you guys ever tried to leave one at the same time as everyone else? (like after a football game) its awful.

random thought: what about widening university blvd?
By ballah09
Registration Days Posts
#402896
Actually building parking garages outside of campus and then busing them to campus is not a bad idea. Saves you space on campus and alot of headaches. I was going to suggest something like that because PSU does that. WVU does also but not with buses.

I think it would be wise to do so imo, especially if you plan to expanding 20k-25k students and 30-40k football stadium.
User avatar
By bluedevilflame
Registration Days Posts
#402897
ballah09 wrote:Actually building parking garages outside of campus and then busing them to campus is not a bad idea. Saves you space on campus and alot of headaches. I was going to suggest something like that because PSU does that. WVU does also but not with buses.

I think it would be wise to do so imo, especially if you plan to expanding 20k-25k students and 30-40k football stadium.
+1
This is what I was trying to get in my posts, should have clarified more.
By JLFJR
Registration Days Posts
#402907
ballah09 wrote:Actually building parking garages outside of campus and then busing them to campus is not a bad idea. Saves you space on campus and alot of headaches. I was going to suggest something like that because PSU does that. WVU does also but not with buses.

I think it would be wise to do so imo, especially if you plan to expanding 20k-25k students and 30-40k football stadium.
Good points. Thank you! I have no doubt a parking garage will be a necessity at some point, ballah09. Even with 7000 acres, good usable land close to campus is in short supply but VT built its first parking garage in 2010, I read above. Just not sure when we will reach the tipping point. Taking University Blvd. to four lanes is an idea worth studying. I am sure it would increase the number of cars we could move in and out efficiently every day and thereby increase the number of cars that could park on campus. It wouldn't allow us to bring everyone in but could be one component of a bigger plan. The impact on campus esthetics and atmosphere would be a factor to consider as well. Keep the ideas coming!
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By ramartin
Registration Days
#402908
VT only has 3,000 more parking spaces than Liberty has even though VT has a larger student and employee population and also host many more day-time events than Liberty does. But there are many walkable living areas near VT and the campus has been pushing mass transit, remote parking, and carpool programs for a long time. We made some significant strides over the last year in this regard too. In one year, the number of people that ride the bus from their home/apartment to the campus has increased by 300 and an additional 160 carpools are registered. This means about 460 vehicles have been reduced during the day and as far as we can tell and it seems everyone is still getting to the campus when they need to. 460 spaces is about the same size as the Reber-Thomas lot. Plus an untold number of people that are not in the carpool program are sharing rides that we do not know of.
By Hold My Own
Registration Days Posts
#402911
I feel like every time the mall owners hear something regarding parking at Liberty the price for it slowly creeps up.


EDIT: Agreed Richard, it would be nearly impossible to know exactly how many roommates in area apartments are now riding together when the normal just a few years ago would have been to each do their own thing.
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By alabama24
Registration Days Posts
#402921
I agree BlueDevil… but I also understand the cost. I hope that garages will go up on the perimeter in the not-too-distant future.
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By bluedevilflame
Registration Days Posts
#402922
alabama24 wrote:I agree BlueDevil… but I also understand the cost. I hope that garages will go up on the perimeter in the not-too-distant future.
I do too, and I think it will have to eventually. The campus is growing so rapidly its hard to remember that all this growth cost $ and needs to be done wisely and in due time.

Also, thank you Chancellor for your explanation of the parking issues around campus!
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By Flamesfanva
Registration Days Posts
#402923
If one of the main problems is so many people having to get to DeMoss, then why not start placing new buildings farther away such as what they are doing with the medical school? Put the new "Trump Tower" business school out in Campbell county. :)
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By ramartin
Registration Days
#402926
Flamesfanva wrote:If one of the main problems is so many people having to get to DeMoss, then why not start placing new buildings farther away such as what they are doing with the medical school? Put the new "Trump Tower" business school out in Campbell county. :)
It makes sense to do this if the entire program is self contained at all operating levels - instruction, academic support, student support, and auxiliary enterprises. This is the case with the LUCOM (Liberty University College of Osteopathic Medicine) and the structure of the curriculum will not lend itself to significant use of central campus services during the day. However if the program or school requires signficant supporting service facilities use such as the Library, Vines Center, or the LaHaye Student Union, then you could easily end up with needing very significant transit costs to connect the two location, especially if the class times are synchronous with the undergraduate time schedule; or end up building more than 1 parking space per anticipated vehicle across the entire campus while at the same time increasing intra-campus traffic. You can also quickly erode your economies of scale by having to recreate certain service facilities at these remote/satellite campus locations as well.
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By ramartin
Registration Days
#402928
bluedevilflame wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:
bluedevilflame wrote:I still think parking garages are a much better use of land than sprawling parking lots. A garage could fit over a 1,000 parking spots in a much smaller area. I just don't get it, it could save land that we could use for further expansion.

For example: VTech built a parking garage a few years ago that fits 1,200 vehicles
http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stories/ ... -new-spots
I think a powerful and attractive member of this board already posted this sentiment :D
I know, I'm just helping out the cause :D
This article highlights many of the points the Chancellor has made. Some of the complaints registered on the article point to both overcrowded buses but also a road infrastructure that cannot handle the traffic now and concern that the parking deck would make that worse. I nearly fell over when I saw the price tag of $26 million or $21,667 per space. This means even if they carried and used this deck for its useful life, the operating cost and depreciation per space would be between $850 - $1045 per space depending on how they will handle entry authentication and assuming no transit support for the deck. Also what is never included in the cost of these projects is what is given up to do it. If a school with a similar project had to pull the $26 million from funds that could have otherwise been used to increase the school's endowment used for financial aid, the per space impact of a school making a very pedestrian investment return of 4% a year would loose $867 per space per year plus loose the impact of compounding returns over the life of the parking deck. So now you have a parking project who's net impact to the school could be between $1724 - $1912 per space per year before addressing what the value of the land could have been if used for another purpose (since this is a interior parking deck that VT is building). Also if an interior parking deck forces a school to sprawl its core academic/service facilities, it forces a potential peak-demand rapid transfer type of transit system like the one Liberty used to run between Green and DeMoss Hall if it wishes for its campus to be reasonably accessible by foot. So even if you over-assigned the deck by 50% or 1,800 permits on 1,200 spaces (this was the level LU has having difficuly accomodating everyone last fall), the cost and net financial impact per permit would be over $1,200 before addressing core facility sprawl and land opportunity cost - whether a school charges that or not depends on many factors and they are all unique to each school.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#402936
bluedevilflame wrote:
ballah09 wrote:Actually building parking garages outside of campus and then busing them to campus is not a bad idea. Saves you space on campus and alot of headaches. I was going to suggest something like that because PSU does that. WVU does also but not with buses.

I think it would be wise to do so imo, especially if you plan to expanding 20k-25k students and 30-40k football stadium.
+1
This is what I was trying to get in my posts, should have clarified more.
I am not actually BlueDevil but I was trying to express the same.
I will add 2 other things, but only in the spirit of Peace Love and Apple Pie.... :D
Egress to Wards Rd and Candlers Mtn Rd are atrocious. This is not purely a Liberty issue, but it does make me yearn for the summer, when the students are gone. I try to stay away from that area between 3-6. And, I'm looking at you City of Lynchburg, how long does it take to fix a bridge? And why do people keep turning left when there is clearly a sign, traffic cones, Police Officer, and common sense say NO LEFT TURN!
My second point is cost. When did infrastructure need to make money? I understand the desire to run a business, but we don't judge every capital expenditure by financial ROI, why this? IMO this type of project is a NEED as opposed to a want. Here are many engineering firms out there that have experience in helping with problems like this. Remember, for years 'experts' said we couldn't build behind the Vines Center and look what we have now!
I'm not angry upset or trying to sow discord. In fact, I hate gardening and try not to sow anything other than toss some grass seed on the ground. My point is, the solution is out there. There just has to be a desire to find it.
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By alabama24
Registration Days Posts
#403029
Purple Haize wrote:I will add 2 other things, but only in the spirit of Peace Love and Apple Pie.... :D
Egress to Wards Rd and Candlers Mtn Rd are atrocious.
I especially agree with the Wards Road part. I know that a vehicular tunnel WAS in the works... What held it up, or has it been scratched? It is desperately needed. When that is done, the Sonic exit can be eliminated. It amazes me (not really) how many stupid kids I see still crossing the road there.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#403093
JLFJR wrote:PH, I wasn't thinking about you when I mentioned those sowing discord! Or tomatoes or green beans or corn or rheutabega!
FIFY
By rogers3
Registration Days Posts
#403097
alabama24 wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:I will add 2 other things, but only in the spirit of Peace Love and Apple Pie.... :D
Egress to Wards Rd and Candlers Mtn Rd are atrocious.
I especially agree with the Wards Road part. I know that a vehicular tunnel WAS in the works... What held it up, or has it been scratched? It is desperately needed. When that is done, the Sonic exit can be eliminated. It amazes me (not really) how many stupid kids I see still crossing the road there.

I know that a vehicular tunnel WAS in the works... What held it up, or has it been scratched?


I asked this just a few days ago, with no response. Maybe JLFJR can weigh in... I'm sure he knows something about it!
By 4everfsu
Registration Days Posts
#403104
Maybe every new building in the future like LUCOM that is a stand alon building away from the present school complex could have its own attached parking garage. Just a thought.
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By ramartin
Registration Days
#403118
4everfsu wrote:Maybe every new building in the future like LUCOM that is a stand alon building away from the present school complex could have its own attached parking garage. Just a thought.
Medical School is expensive enough with 500 surface parking spaces. Adding the cost of a parking deck to the program would make it really hard to stay competitive in cost of attendance, especially when all that is gained is 2 minutes less walking for 250 persons.
By JLFJR
Registration Days Posts
#403131
In return for allowing Liberty to build the pedestrian tunnel, the railroad required that the vehicular tunnels be built within two years of the ped tunnel. The railroad engineers and our engineers are looking for a way to use a different method to build the tunnel that will give us several lanes of traffic, not just one lane in and one lane out through two tubes. Railroad engineers are notorious for moving slowly so, if they hold us up, I am sure they will give us more time. The engineers seem to be making good progress.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#403137
alabama24 wrote:Thanks for the update Chancellor! Multiple lanes would be good. :)
But will they go both ways....wait....you'll get it..... Study
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By rueful
Registration Days Posts
#403138
Skipped over a few of the posts, so not sure if this has been mentioned, but I think a 4 lane university blvd would be extremely dangerous, I think it'd be best to just have the right hand turn lanes only at the main intersections.

When I lived off campus, I always wanted a parking garage. Now that I live in Boston and drive in to the city all the time, I completely understand what Chancellor Falwell is saying. I would have killed myself before trying to park in a parking garage at LU.
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