[Sly Fox]

Article on other possible locations. WARNING: BLEACHER REPORT ARTICLE
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1308 ... inia-beach

Other than the ridiculous El Paso suggestion, that was a well thought out story for a BR report.

[Purple Haize]

One thing to keep in mind, don't underestimate the Eastern North Carolina market. Since there is such a distance between that part of the state and Charlotte, there has always been a disconnect with the basketball teams there (more the Bobcats than the Hornets, but same problem with both). Growing up in the area, I can attest that there are A LOT of people that vacation in Williamsburg (Busch Gardens) and travel to VA Beach as well, especially Northeastern NC.

And therein lies the issue. Basketball season is in the winter. You will get next to 0 spill over from people vacationing there.
JBock, the public transit to the game Iis a huge issue. Traffic is notoriously bad in that area. Having an option to take public transit right to the arena is Huge. Look at how in works at the MCI/Verizon/Whatever Center in DC. The metro is PACKED with fans going to and from the game.
I still think Vegas and Seattle would be better bets. (see what I did there)

[01LUGrad]

I'm with you as far as the possibility of an arena revitalizing a run-down or abandoned neighborhood. I don't know if the residents of the beach are looking for something like that, but I could be wrong. It would be great for city council to throw something else in that area that would make them feel better about the decision to put the convention center so far away from the beach and all of the hotels. Oops.

Where exactly would it be in relation to the Convention Center? Is it the south side of 19th St somewhere?

Directly across the street in the convention center parking lot.

[NotAJerry]

Article on other possible locations. WARNING: BLEACHER REPORT ARTICLE
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1308 ... inia-beach

Other than the ridiculous El Paso suggestion, that was a well thought out story for a BR report.

Actually, it was pretty bad, even for BR. Cincinnati has a median income that is non existent and a lower bowl, 50 yard line, season ticket to the Bengals is $800. I'm not making that up. The article has no actual reasoning behind it, ignores most financial factors, and ignores some of the supposed reasons against VA Beach when arguing in favor of some other cities. The only things it seemed to bring up that hasn't already been mentioned seem to be Pittsburgh and a 2nd team in Chicago. Maybe half of the locations mentioned are decent.

[thepostman]

Seattle has proven they will not build an arena, so that's out unless there's been a change of mind among city leadership.

The median income for Vegas is 53k and the median income for VA Beach is 48k. The median income for Chesapeake is 50k. While I think it's crazy that leagues avoid Vegas due to the gambling connection, they do. That will change soon enough, but it may be too soon for a league to allow one of their teams to make the move.

Norfolk/Portsmouth, the area that folks here are arguing for, have median incomes in the mid to low 30k range. Those are the areas that can't support a team. Va Beach/Chesapeake certainly can.

You are acting like because I live in Chesapeake, I wouldn't go to Norfolk to watch a basketball game.
Again, I am sure they are going to try to put it in VA Beach, I just think it is a mistake to send it all the way down to the beach.

People said the Verizon Center being built in Chinatown was a horrible idea for the Bullets/Caps. It's completely changed the neighborhood from the most violent part of DC when it was murder capital of the world to a full fledged entertainment area that is now getting the biggest downtown development in the city.

People said that it was a mistake to build Nats Park in an area of primarily abandoned buildings and open air drug markets. Even with it opening right as the recession hit, 4-5 years later it's a vibrant neighborhood that has more than tripled in size, has some of the most amazing new row houses and parks in DC, and has plans in place to grow to 4x the size it currently is. It's done so well that DC United may be building their new stadium 3 blocks away to create a full entertainment district along with a new theater that just opened, a tennis arena for the local World Team Tennis squad, and a velodrome.

The idea for the VA Beach location they've chosen is likely an attempt to create a new neighborhood based around a building that would have at least 41 events each year just from the primary tenant and would very likely draw in bigger name concerts and events that the Scope just isn't good enough for these days.

The real downsides would be the lack of public transportation you mentioned, until they get the light rail system worked out, and the potential danger of being in the crash area. You may be spot on about the area by the Town Center being much better for something going in at this point.

For every success story there are plenty of failures. The Rays haven't revitalized that area of St Pete even though they have been successful. A team needs to be located in a central location for that metro area. It is even more necessary in smaller markets. DC is not a good comparison to the Hampton Roads area.

[NotAJerry]

For every success story there are plenty of failures. The Rays haven't revitalized that area of St Pete even though they have been successful. A team needs to be located in a central location for that metro area. It is even more necessary in smaller markets. DC is not a good comparison to the Hampton Roads area.

What's the public transportation setup like in Tampa-St. Pete? I seem to remember there being a lot of opposition to putting the team on the St. Pete side of things with people referring to it as the older/retirement side of the two cities and it being hard to get to from Tampa.

Looking at the Strategic Growth Areas for Virginia Beach, it seems like the Convention Center/proposed arena site is one of them. I do think that the light rail would have to be implemented all the way out to the resort area for it to maximize its potential though. If the local governments were to get their act together and have the rail running from the Naval base in Norfolk all the way to the resort area, it could really tie together the various population centers in the region.

[ATrain]

... or people could just drive their car there...

You make it sound like being pro-light rail is anti-car. I-264 to the beach is mostly 4 lanes in each direction, and still gets gridlocked quite a bit. You can't just keep adding lanes. I know you've never lived in a bigger metro area and probably can't grasp what its like living in a city that has even 100,000 people, but at some point its just no longer feasible to keep adding lanes. Whats wrong with a light or heavy rail system that'll take cars off the road?

That said, I really just don't see this happening. While Virginia Beach is making progress towards becoming a year-round destination and encouraging residential development at the Oceanfront, there's just a lot of factors against it. Town Center would be a better option, since Virginia Beach is trying to make it a "downtown," area so there's more of an urban, rather than suburban, feel, but its not there yet.

[jbock13]

ATrain, as I kid I grew up outside of DC.

If light rail works, great. Right now it doesn't. Taxpayers subsidize the real cost of it, not the actual riders. So that's really want I'm ranting about more or less. If it works, let it work, but let those who use it pay for it.

[alabama24]

From the afore mentioned Belcher Report:

Before any of the other cities are considered (save for staying in Sacramento, of course), Seattle must be considered.

We know this market can support the NBA. This was a city that was hoodwinked by a shrewd and greedy owner. (And I don't mean Thunder owner Clay Bennett—I can't blame him for wanting to bring a team to his hometown.)

To add insult to injury, Seattle fans had to watch the team that was once theirs go to the NBA Finals (again, that's not OKC's fault, all of the blame goes to Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz; I mean did you honestly expect an owner from Oklahoma City who wanted a team in Oklahoma City to NOT move his team to Oklahoma City?).

Seattle's issue, of course, is with a new arena.

Progress is being made (according to Tim Booth of the AP, via Yahoo! Sports); however, while waiting for a new arena, they still have a decent one in the KeyArena (with prospective Sonics owner Chris Hansen willing to pay for renovations to the Key). This could hold them over for a good five years while awaiting a new building.

On top of that, it would be the best story in the NBA, along with the fact that this would bring us a new and exciting rivalry with the Thunder—assuming, of course, that a new SuperSonics team would actually be good. Ironically, one way to ensure of that would be to emulate the Thunder's formula.

So why consider Virginia Beach, or any other city for as long as Seattle doesn't have a team?

The other eight cities listed are nice, but before we step out on that ledge, either staying in Sacramento or bringing back the Sonics should be the priority.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Not happening. It's nice to think about it, but it ain't happening. Keep in mind, the NBA and the other owners have to approve the location change. They aren't going to approve them moving to Virginia Beach unless all the stars align to make Virginia Beach the perfect place to relocate and the Maloofs make up a lot of ground they have lost with their debacle of arena negotiations and how big of a d-----bag they have come off as.

They don't have the arena. To get all the work done to get the lack of arena resolved and the moving process would be no less than five years, and five years is the best case estimate. Sacramento can't even negotiate an arena agreement in a city they are already in!

It's small in relation to MSAs that don't have an NBA team - Seattle, San Diego, Tampa, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Las Vegas.

The Norfolk television market area (TMA) only ranks 43rd, behind Seattle (less than half the size of Seattle, by the way), Tampa, Sacramento, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Raleigh-Durham, Baltimore, San Diego, Nashville, Hartford & New Haven, Kansas City, Columbus, Cincinnati, Greenvll-Spart-Ashevll-And (that's how it's listed), West Palm Beach, Birmingham, Las Vegas, Harrisburg, and Grand Rapids.

While there are other MSAs and TMAs that are smaller than Virginia Beach/Norfolk, it would make zero sense to send a struggling franchise in one of the bigger TMAs (Sacramento is 20th) to what would be one of the smallest ones in the NBA. You can point to OKC all you want, but one of the main factors in the Sonics moving to OKC is because the OKC faithful showed it can healthily support an NBA franchise when it hosted New Orleans in the weak of Katrina. If that wouldn't have happened, there would have been very little chance OKC would have landed an NBA franchise.

[NotAJerry]

Is the Key Arena still good enough? It's 50 years old and has already undergone one major renovation nearly 20 years ago. I would love to see an NBA team back in Seattle, but I would think it would require a new building sooner than 5 years after the move.

[Purple Haize]

Is the Key Arena still good enough? It's 50 years old and has already undergone one major renovation nearly 20 years ago. I would love to see an NBA team back in Seattle, but I would think it would require a new building sooner than 5 years after the move.

I would love it too. They had some of the coolest uniforms.
Plus, they could bring back Tom Chambers, Dale Ellis andShawn Kemp!

[jbock13]

uhm, Sacramento has the 11'th largest TV market in America...

[Chris Lang]

Is the Key Arena still good enough? It's 50 years old and has already undergone one major renovation nearly 20 years ago. I would love to see an NBA team back in Seattle, but I would think it would require a new building sooner than 5 years after the move.

The Sonics left Seattle because they deemed Key inadequate. There's no way another NBA team is going to move in there. Seattle taxpayers were anti new arena (can't blame them), and I doubt that mentality has changed.

[thepostman]

For every success story there are plenty of failures. The Rays haven't revitalized that area of St Pete even though they have been successful. A team needs to be located in a central location for that metro area. It is even more necessary in smaller markets. DC is not a good comparison to the Hampton Roads area.

What's the public transportation setup like in Tampa-St. Pete? I seem to remember there being a lot of opposition to putting the team on the St. Pete side of things with people referring to it as the older/retirement side of the two cities and it being hard to get to from Tampa.

Looking at the Strategic Growth Areas for Virginia Beach, it seems like the Convention Center/proposed arena site is one of them. I do think that the light rail would have to be implemented all the way out to the resort area for it to maximize its potential though. If the local governments were to get their act together and have the rail running from the Naval base in Norfolk all the way to the resort area, it could really tie together the various population centers in the region.

public transit is awful in Tampa, but Americans outside of DC/New York/Chicago/Boston don't really like using public transit. Doesn't change the fact that a team needs to locate their stadium/arena in centrally located areas for the entire market. The stadium in St Pete didn't make any sense from the start. I don't think an NBA arena in Virginia Beach makes much sense either, with our without public transit. That is just from visiting several times, so its far from an educated opinion on the matter.

I do know this, there are markets that are ready right now with a stadium in place that are clearly NBA ready. Anaheim, Kansas City and Pittsburgh come to mind right away.

Vegas makes sense, but they need to build an arena. Same goes with Seattle. So if they want to really be competitive they have to get their act together soon.

Professional sports in Vegas shouldn't be such a big deal. I will never understand why it is

[NotAJerry]

Think again on the public transit idea. It's much more an age issue than a location issue. Places like Portland, Denver and Charlotte are considered leaders in public transportation.

If the light rail were to connect the area then an arena in that location shouldn't be a problem, especially considering what they're trying to do in the resort SGA. If not, it could be a problem.

[Purple Haize]

Posty. Anaheim is a no go because that would give you basically 3 teams in the LA market. And they would rather but their efforts into an NFL team.
Kansas City brings a big yawn to me. The Chiefs draw well. The Royals haven't been relevant since George Brett. So how much enthusiasm is there for another Pro Sports franchise?
Pittsburgh holds possibility. It's IS a Steeler town. But they have difficulty supporting both the Pirates and the Pens, and the Pens are successful. It was just a few years ago they were looking to move.
I'll disagree a smidge with Lang and say the mood in Seattle has changed, at least according to my uncle. And we know what a credible source he is... But basically now that they don't have an NBA team, they realize what they are missing.
I'm still thinking Vegas.

[jbock13]

And all of those cities are bankrupt from running the light rail systems. Especially Charlotte.

Once again, if you want to use them, use them. Just pay for it. Pay the true cost of $35 per boarding in Salt Lake City. If the rider doesn't, who pays that cost?

[thepostman]

Posty. Anaheim is a no go because that would give you basically 3 teams in the LA market. And they would rather but their efforts into an NFL team.
Kansas City brings a big yawn to me. The Chiefs draw well. The Royals haven't been relevant since George Brett. So how much enthusiasm is there for another Pro Sports franchise?
Pittsburgh holds possibility. It's IS a Steeler town. But they have difficulty supporting both the Pirates and the Pens, and the Pens are successful. It was just a few years ago they were looking to move.
I'll disagree a smidge with Lang and say the mood in Seattle has changed, at least according to my uncle. And we know what a credible source he is... But basically now that they don't have an NBA team, they realize what they are missing.
I'm still thinking Vegas.

Kansas City might be a big yawn to you, but they have a stadium built that is nice and they would support the team...

The kings will find a way to end up in Vegas though so it doesn't really matter

[NotAJerry]

The Royals don't draw because they've been horrible for 20 years. KC does a great job supporting MLS, they'll support an NBA franchise as long as it's not terrible for 2 decades.

[Purple Haize]

The Royals don't draw because they've been horrible for 20 years. KC does a great job supporting MLS, they'll support an NBA franchise as long as it's not terrible for 2 decades.

That's a BIG if...

[bluedevilflame]

One thing to keep in mind, don't underestimate the Eastern North Carolina market. Since there is such a distance between that part of the state and Charlotte, there has always been a disconnect with the basketball teams there (more the Bobcats than the Hornets, but same problem with both). Growing up in the area, I can attest that there are A LOT of people that vacation in Williamsburg (Busch Gardens) and travel to VA Beach as well, especially Northeastern NC.

And therein lies the issue. Basketball season is in the winter. You will get next to 0 spill over from people vacationing there.

I don't know, I think you could still get some winter time interest here, this is a basketball crazy state that has never properly been tapped at the pro level.

[Purple Haize]

Having come from a basketball mad state this state is not even basketball under the weather. This is a football and college sports state.

[NotAJerry]

The Hampton Roads metro has nearly 1.7 million people with an arena proposed in the largest city in that MSA. They won't need spillover from vacationers if the team is any good at all.

[thepostman]

this is a pointless debate. I am sure the area could support it, but its not happening.