[thepostman]

coming through in the clutch is at the end of games. How is that even debatable??

I think that is just reaching for arguments sake which is something you do often because you enjoy the fight

[lynchburgwildcats]

Says the man who claims a three times MVP isn't great. A drunken sailor doing lines of cocaine off a crack whore's behind while double fisting 40s couldn't come up with a more ridiculous line of "logic" than that.

[JK37]

Says the man who claims a three times MVP isn't great. A drunken sailor doing lines of cocaine off a crack whore's behind while double fisting 40s couldn't come up with a more ridiculous line of "logic" than that.

Seriously: for how long and through how many re-writes did you come up with that? You're twisted. (And I laughed.)

FWIW, I believe he has great talent. Possibly superior talent to anyone not named Russell, Jabbaar, or West. Im saying greater talent than Jordan or Bryant. But he isn't a truly great competitor. And that will always keep him from being fully Great.

Heck, he's not even the greatest competitor on his own team right now. That was clearly evident to me last night, and I only watched the final quarter and overtime. (That's the only part of an NBA game worth watching, and that only in the playoffs. Last night's game proved that for the millionth time. The NBA is entertainment; it is basketball simplified. And that's why it is popular. But, I digress.)

I can only surmise why this is. And in what little time I've spent pondering it (less than it took to type this post), I come to the theory that he hasn't had to work nearly as hard relative to those I've mentioned to have what he has. Since he was 12, he hasn't walked onto a basketball court where he wasnt the most talented, and everyone on it didn't already know who he was

Grossly superior, once-in-a-generation TALENT. Mediocre, average-at-best competitive drive.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Says the man who claims a three times MVP isn't great. A drunken sailor doing lines of cocaine off a crack whore's behind while double fisting 40s couldn't come up with a more ridiculous line of "logic" than that.

Seriously: for how long and through how many re-writes did you come up with that? You're twisted. (And I laughed.)

FWIW, I believe he has great talent. Possibly superior talent to anyone not named Russell, Jabbaar, or West. Im saying greater talent than Jordan or Bryant. But he isn't a truly great competitor. And that will always keep him from being fully Great.

Heck, he's not even the greatest competitor on his own team right now. That was clearly evident to me last night, and I only watched the final quarter and overtime. (That's the only part of an NBA game worth watching, and that only in the playoffs. Last night's game proved that for the millionth time. The NBA is entertainment; it is basketball simplified. And that's why it is popular. But, I digress.)

I can only surmise why this is. And in what little time I've spent pondering it (less than it took to type this post), I come to the theory that he hasn't had to work nearly as hard relative to those I've mentioned to have what he has. Since he was 12, he hasn't walked onto a basketball court where he wasnt the most talented, and everyone on it didn't already know who he was

Grossly superior, once-in-a-generation TALENT. Mediocre, average-at-best competitive drive.

I thought of it off the top of my head, I write for a living and creative writing is part of the job. Only one rewrite, and that was only because my browser screwed up the first time.

[JK37]

Twisted, and paid for it. Well played.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Well that was a good ole fashion beatdown. Scott Brooks adjustments came about 5 quarters late though. Better late than never, likely will bite them in the backside unless they pull off the improbable and beat the spurs four times in five tries.

[Purple Haize]

The notion that you can only be a clutch player if you hit game winners consistently is one of the most ignorant ideas in basketball. It's a 40 minute game. Is LeBron not clutch when he dominates end to end in a blowout close out game? Winning close out games is what "clutch" players do since it puts the team one round closer to winning the championship.

Oh what the he'll am I talking about, you can only be clutch if you are awesome on one possession.

You realize that's the definition of clutch right? I mean knocking down a lay up with 8:47 left in the quarter/half is an entirely different animal than knocking one down on your last possession. That's just a scientific fact.
You can be dominant but not clutch, and vice versa. There is a lot to be said about a player if the coach wants him with the ball with the game on the line. Some players can handle it, s one can't. it's not being critical it just is. Kevin McHale was a great player but with the game on the line would you rather have him or Bird with the ball? MJ and Pippen, same way. Same with Miami. While James is a very good player, at the end of the game I want the ball in D Wade's hands, regardless of what either had done up to that point.

[lynchburgwildcats]

kevin durant in beast mode in the 4th quarter!

[bradyfan]

Thunder win. Perkins with 15 and 9 while Ibaka puts up 26. Youth will win series, SA was fun while they lasted. Heat over OKC in 6 for Finals.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Thunder win. Perkins with 15 and 9 while Ibaka puts up 26. Youth will win series, SA was fun while they lasted. Heat over OKC in 6 for Finals.

Winning two games at home means nothing, especially when you don't have home court advantage: see Western Conference Finals, circa 2012, when San Antonio went up 2-0. AS they say, a series doesn't start until a road team wins...

OKC still has to beat San Antonio down in Texas where the OKC role players no showed on offense in both games other than Derek Fisher in game one. The role players have been the difference in each game:
Game 1 - Neal 12, Splitter 9 and 6, Leonard 7 and 7
Game 2 - Leonard 18 and 10, Daniel Green 10
Game 3 - Sefolosha 19, Ibaka 14
Game 4 - Perkins, Ibaka, and Nick Collison all catching fire from midrange.

Some of the OKC role players are going to have to come up big in game five or, if needed, game seven for the Thunder to win the series. Thus far this post season, Collison, Sefolosha, and Perkins have done nothing on the road offensively. Fisher has had four double-digit scoring games and Ibaka three. They'll need to get more production on the road from their role players. Playing just defense isn't going to cut it when San Antonio is home, they can't count on Harden, Westbrook, and Durant to combine for 100 every game.

I don't really care who wins to be honest. I like both teams, I like the Spurs a tad bit more and think they have a better chance against the Heat because Miami has the defenders to lockup OKC's Big Three in Chalmers, Wade, and LeBron. Who do the Heat have to lock up Duncan? Turiaf and Anthony are quality defenders, but they are no where close to the level of a Perkins.

I just want this to go seven games. I'll be pulling for either team in the Finals to beat the Heat. My favorite team in the playoffs is the Celtics and whoever else plays the Heat.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Dwyane Wade as the closer? Not so hot. Wade didn't score in final 10 minutes of the game, 0-3 FG and a turnover.

[thepostman]

its interesting how different both the conference finals series have been for game 3 and 4. Showing once again how big home court advantage is in the nba.

[Purple Haize]

Dwyane Wade as the closer? Not so hot. Wade didn't score in final 10 minutes of the game, 0-3 FG and a turnover.

Remember I've never sais LeBron is a stiff, just not the greatest.( or even top 10) of all time.

And now I'm sure the people who earlier said hitting a 'clutch' shot does not make one great will be all over this. But I would point to the last 2 times, on the same possession, that LeBron had the opportunity to win a game he missed lay up and then a 20'.
Again, LeBron fills up a stat sheet, but ill take the ball in Wades handin the clutch every time.

EDIT: oh yeah, and James' 3 ptr? Assist Wade.

[RubberMallet]

all the greats miss last second shots. it happens. lebron has hit plenty of them. in fact in "clutch" time, lebron is statistically one of the best in the league.

he got screwed on 2 of those foul calls but he gets so many i don't mind it...it sucks in a playoff game to see such ticky tack crap though.

2 great series...man the finals should be awesome.

how can anyone watch these games and say the nba is 1 on 1 isolation basketball with no defense? get with it people, the nba is as good as its ever been.

[lynchburgwildcats]

all the greats miss last second shots. it happens. lebron has hit plenty of them. in fact in "clutch" time, lebron is statistically one of the best in the league.

he got screwed on 2 of those foul calls but he gets so many i don't mind it...it sucks in a playoff game to see such ticky tack crap though.

2 great series...man the finals should be awesome.

how can anyone watch these games and say the nba is 1 on 1 isolation basketball with no defense? get with it people, the nba is as good as its ever been.

People also still say the Spurs are boring. Most people don't squat about the NBA other than "LeBron isn't clutch" or whatever other hogwash Skip Bayless and those idiot ESPN talking heads ram down their throats.

[Purple Haize]

Here is what I know about the NBA... I couldn't pick Skip Bayless out of a line up!

The NBA is a different game then College basketball. It doesn't make it better or worse it just is. Growing up in the 80's I would have to say THAT was the best era for the NBA. Heck, who couldn't love '3 to make 2'?

[RubberMallet]

Here is what I know about the NBA... I couldn't pick Skip Bayless out of a line up!

The NBA is a different game then College basketball. It doesn't make it better or worse it just is. Growing up in the 80's I would have to say THAT was the best era for the NBA. Heck, who couldn't love '3 to make 2'?

the best part of the 80's for me was watching the crap that bird and magic would pull and then watch a young jordan just dominate everyone.

i have all the jordan dvd's and i nba tv is always playing magic and bird specials. in the 90's i have nearly every bulls playoff game on vhs and used to watch them all the time. i think this era is right up there. i don't think its the greatest era but its pretty amazing.

college basketball is fundamentally juvenile and you get to see a transition from hs boys to men. combined with the atmosphere collegiate sports brings, its an entirely different entity that in its own right is fantastic.

[Purple Haize]

To me the 90's started the downfall of the NBA. It went away from being about teams, the Celtics, Sixers, Lakers Blazers Postons, and mor to individuals. Jordan, and every 'next Jordan' from Ron Harper to Harold Minor. Instead of teams, they tried to highlight players, whether they deserved to befor not. Sure you had that to an extent with Dr J, Magic and Bird. But the Jordan era NBA took it to a whole other level.

[RubberMallet]

yeah, as great as jordan was and as much as he helped the nba, he also harmed it. i think for the most part the 90's was just as good as the 80's. the 00's were the downfall. everyone was trying to find the next jordan and taking these guys and trying to fit them as the 1 superstar does everything type player. AI, mcgrady, vince were all the second coming but they weren't...there wasn't enough pieces on their teams to be able to win it all with isolation 1on 1 type situations. i think the last 3 years have been oustandingly different.

[lynchburgwildcats]

coming through in the clutch is at the end of games. How is that even debatable??

I think that is just reaching for arguments sake which is something you do often because you enjoy the fight

This is exactly what I was saying early about clutch. There's a lot more to being clutch than last second shots...

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/06 ... ron-james/

1. The first 45 minutes of an NBA game matter. Focusing only on “crunch time” is arbitrary and ignores the fact that every possession holds the potential for the same amount of points as any other. If your favorite team lays an egg on defense in the first half, that matters, even if it rallies in the second half.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Last night's game four between the Heat and Celtics highest rated NBA game in cable history.
http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2012-art ... story.html

[Purple Haize]

coming through in the clutch is at the end of games. How is that even debatable??

I think that is just reaching for arguments sake which is something you do often because you enjoy the fight

This is exactly what I was saying early about clutch. There's a lot more to being clutch than last second shots...

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/06 ... ron-james/

1. The first 45 minutes of an NBA game matter. Focusing only on “crunch time” is arbitrary and ignores the fact that every possession holds the potential for the same amount of points as any other. If your favorite team lays an egg on defense in the first half, that matters, even if it rallies in the second half.

The whole game matters? Really? Wow what mind blowing insight THAT is. I will now have to change my entire coaching philosophy. And what is 'clutch' any ways. It is only logical according to this to say there is no more pressure in shooting the front end of a 1 and 1 down 1 with 6:30 left in the first half and a 1 and 1 down by 1 with .6 left. Which makes me feel even MORE awesomer because now I can say I made 'clutch' shots in EVERY game I played! Not just the ones where the score just happened to be close and I just non chalantly tossed in a bucket but even the blow out games... Man that's AWESOME. Everyone who scores, or even plays D and prevents a score at any time in a game is clutch! Heck, my coach was full of crap. I WAS a clutch defensive player!

[thepostman]

coming through in the clutch is at the end of games. How is that even debatable??

I think that is just reaching for arguments sake which is something you do often because you enjoy the fight

This is exactly what I was saying early about clutch. There's a lot more to being clutch than last second shots...

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/06 ... ron-james/

1. The first 45 minutes of an NBA game matter. Focusing only on “crunch time” is arbitrary and ignores the fact that every possession holds the potential for the same amount of points as any other. If your favorite team lays an egg on defense in the first half, that matters, even if it rallies in the second half.

I never argued this fact.

I feel as if I have gone in circles here.

Lebron and an amazingly talented player. He proves that on a nearly nightly basis. Without him the Heat would not be competeing for an nba championship every year. However, the great ones don't make excuses and try to blame others when they lose, the improve and win...He still has plenty of time to become a great player, but he isn't one yet in my opinion.

I know you won't agree with me, and that is fine.

[JK37]

I don't think I could quote all the things I've read to which my statements will apply, so here goes anyway...

I've watched big pieces of both conference finals this year. There are moments when teams have run and even scored on more than Iso's. But the overwhelming majority of scoring opportunities which I have seen have been derived from simple Iso's. Other than that, I've seen screen action on wings and at the top from all angles, but the sad irony here is that only one option is usually considered - not the 4+ that are available on every POB action. I've also seen some off-ball screening action, namely double-staggers, but the number of unused staggers has frankly surprised me this postseason. Bearing in mind all of this, it doesn't surprise. I used to be pretty derisive regarding the NBA, but it all makes logical sense to me, too. a 24-second shot clock leaves so little time for team offensive creativity beyond transition and secondary action, what more could one expect. Yes, the NBA and college games are different, and I have no problem with that. (Furthermore, the WNBA and collegiate women's game are different as well, and different unto each other - but if I linger here, I'll lose my audience.) The NBA is about ENTERTAINMENT primarily. All other forms of the game are also about entertainment to some extent, but none so much as the NBA. It is what it is, and I happen to rarely enjoy it because the parts of the game of basketball I enjoy most are not nearly as present as others I detest.

Regarding the debate over "clutch" and the value of possessions at various points of the game: Yes, the potential for points to be scored is the same in every minute of every game. But the variable is time remaining. Greater risk may be taken earlier in a contest and less risk applied to the venture due to the greater amount of time remaining for recovery from loss due to said risk. Numerous facts of the game verify this, but one that all should be able to understand is this: substitution patterns. If every possession was equally valuable to a contest, why would coaches plan for certain players to be on the floor later in contests as opposed to taking risks with substitutions earlier? The point is, the last possessions of a contest carry greater inherent significance simply because they are last; there is little or no opportunity beyond them for recovery. Earlier possessions carry significance insomuch as they have the potential to render later possessions even more risky - and beyond heightened risk, irrelevant. But this does not equal or surpass the inherent risk to later possessions until a number of such early scoring possessions are strung together. Remember, the variable inherent and unique to every possession is Remaining Time.

(Have I bored you yet?)

[SumItUp]

Advantage - OKC

Thunder Up!