[ToTheLeft]

...and of all those guys, only one or two could even begin to compare to Tebow in terms of mobility and running threat (Tark and Elway).

[Schfourteenteen]

For the record, he played the best game of his career today. Yet, he still completed under 50%.

[BJWilliams]

I think he is backpedaling faster than Troy Polamalu at this point (who got beat guessing wrong on a few plays today)

[Purple Haize]

cj why are you stuck on this 50% thing? If he wins football games why does it matter that he doesnt complete 50%?

Because he is not winning football games. His defense and receivers are. He threw the TD pass about 15 yards and the receiver ran for 65 more. How did Tebow win that? The reason I look at completion percentage so much is because of this. MAs a QB, your team calls on you to spread defenses out and create long distance plays. That means that when Denver needed Tebow, he came through...47.6% of the time. If I was running a ship and my engine only worked 47.5% of the time, would I want to keep the engine long term?

Which is what he does, he just does it unconventionally. Look at the last play of the game/ first play of OT. Pittsburgh had 8 or 9 in the box, which opened up the middle. Why did they have that many in the box? To stop the run. I'm sure it wasn't to bottle up McGahee.

It isnt always successful but it sure worked yesterday.

[LUconn]

Because he is not winning football games. His defense and receivers are.

I think this little diddy that has been repeated all season long can be put to rest. How big of a lead does the offense need to build before we consider them to be the reason they won? The defense was really coming through in the clutch yesterday Even McGahee's fumble was on the other side of the field. All they had to do was hold them to a FG. Against a guy we're lead to believe only has 1 working ankle who is good because of his mobility.

[TH Spangler]

16 weeks ago did any of you guys think we would be discussing Tebow's first playoff win today? He was a third stringer at the time.

[bradyfan]

He threw for more yards than anyone had against the Steelers ALL year.


Overall, the Broncos made the big plays the needed to make in order to win. The catalyst to those big plays on the offensive end is Tim Tebow. This is the same Broncos team that was 1-4. Just with a different guy taking the snaps on offense.

Yeah, he got the most banged up steelers team all season. The guy that was 1-4 with the Broncos was Kyle Orton. Orton couldn't motivate a squirrel on acid. One thing Tebow does do well is lead. However, if you honestly think he's going to develop into a good QB, you're insane. Name one NFL QB that completed less than 50% his first two years and was still starting for that team 5 years later.

Terry Bradshaw
Drew Bledsoe
Bob Greise
Dan Fouts
John Elway
Fran Tarkenton
Phil Simms
Joe Namath

Just a few who started their career with a season or two in the 40's and very low 50's for completion percentages. And that's not including guys from before the merger, since I already know what you'd say about them.

I'll wait for your next baseless claim or remark. I don't mind looking around to continue to find that you write checks you can't cash.

Bradshaw had tons of weapons first of all. Second of all, do you know about football back in the 70's? QB's saw about 25 attempts per game if they were really good. Bradshaw saw closer to 20. The point is that back then the RB's were the best players. Most teams ran on first and second then maybe threw on third.

Bledsoe had one season under 50% and he completed almost 60% his second season.

Griese had one season under 50% and the rest were closer to the 60's.

Fine you can have Fouts. But for the record, his W/L record was terrible his first two years and he had to develop into a good QB. He also played nothing like Tebow, Foust was a throw first QB not a run first QB.

John Elway - His first year he was under 50%, his second was around 57%.

Fran Tarkenton - He threw for 56% his first year...

Phil Simms - Really? This guy? He was okay but it isn't like he was ever that good. He still threw for 50% his first season.

Namath - He played in the 60's and they had a total of like 2 good seasons. Sure you met the minimum requirement with this one but Fox is a good coach and isn't going to start a QB unless he can win.


Here are some current QB stats to show you where Tebow compares...

Phillip Rivers - 62.5% first year

Matt Scuab's first starting season - 66.4%

Brett Favre - 64.1%

Mark Brunell - 58.1%

McNabb - He's one of the few run/pass QB's that were good. He still threw for 58% his second season.

Mike Vick - Run first QB. Completed 55% second season.

Warren Moon - 57% first season.

Even Alex Smith, who is terrible, completed 51% his first season. The only reason Tebow might break the odds in this one is because his division is the worst. Norv Turner staying in SD was a huge gift to Tebow. If you threw him in any other division, you're looking at a 6-10 team at best.

[bradyfan]

He threw for more yards than anyone had against the Steelers ALL year.


Overall, the Broncos made the big plays the needed to make in order to win. The catalyst to those big plays on the offensive end is Tim Tebow. This is the same Broncos team that was 1-4. Just with a different guy taking the snaps on offense.

Yeah, he got the most banged up steelers team all season. The guy that was 1-4 with the Broncos was Kyle Orton. Orton couldn't motivate a squirrel on acid. One thing Tebow does do well is lead. However, if you honestly think he's going to develop into a good QB, you're insane. Name one NFL QB that completed less than 50% his first two years and was still starting for that team 5 years later.

Just a few who started their career with a season or two in the 40's and very low 50's for completion percentages. And that's not including guys from before the merger, since I already know what you'd say about them.

I'll wait for your next baseless claim or remark. I don't mind looking around to continue to find that you write checks you can't cash.

Yeah, you know why I would say those things about guys before the merger? It was a completely different game. Also, Tebow's completion percentage is in the mid-40's...not low 50's. You found two total QB's to break the odds and only one was legit imo.

If I were Fox, I would trade Tebow right at the end of the season since he'll have trade value. He's not going to have any mid way through next season.

[Sly Fox]

This was Tebow's 1st starting season unless you want to count the two games at the end of 2010.

[bradyfan]

That's true. But the only one reason I skipped to that for Schuab was because he only started 2 games prior to that start. Also, keep in mind that his first starting season was about 20% better than Tebow's.

I said this once and I'll say it again, the QB is comparable to an engine on a ship. Would you really want to be captain of a ship where the engine only worked 45% of the time?

[jcmanson]

I said this once and I'll say it again, the QB is comparable to an engine on a ship. Would you really want to be captain of a ship where the engine only worked 45% of the time?

No, but I’ll be happy with Drew Brees’ 66%, Rodgers’ 65%, and Brady’s 64%. You know since I want my engine to work only 64-66% of the time.

[ToTheLeft]

Bradshaw had tons of weapons first of all. Second of all, do you know about football back in the 70's? QB's saw about 25 attempts per game if they were really good. Bradshaw saw closer to 20. The point is that back then the RB's were the best players. Most teams ran on first and second then maybe threw on third.

So then why did he have such a poor completion percentage? You're arguing MY point, not yours.

Bledsoe had one season under 50% and he completed almost 60% his second season.

Tebow has only played one season worth of games.

Griese had one season under 50% and the rest were closer to the 60's.

See above

Fine you can have Fouts. But for the record, his W/L record was terrible his first two years and he had to develop into a good QB. He also played nothing like Tebow, Foust was a throw first QB not a run first QB.

That's not what you asked. You asked if a QB had a bad comp % and stayed with the team for 5 years.

John Elway - His first year he was under 50%, his second was around 57%.

See Bledsoe/Greise

Fran Tarkenton - He threw for 56% his first year...

Followed by sub 50% season, and he stuck around long enough to be a hall of famer after being under 50%

Phil Simms - Really? This guy? He was okay but it isn't like he was ever that good. He still threw for 50% his first season.

Your question was guys who stayed with their team after a bad completion percentage their first year. No one is saying Tebow is going to be the best QB ever


--------

Vick and McNabb are your only reasonable comparisons, and Tebow still isn't the same kind of QB as them... and McNabb was 50% through 12 games and 6 starts, which is much closer to the amount of games Tebow has played thus far. Same with Vick.

[scuzdriver]

Look out says that honey badger, here comes Tim Tebow!

[BJWilliams]

The thing that also has to be considered is that McNabb and Vick didnt run the same style of offense Tebow is running. McNabb was running more of a West Coast Offense (I believe Vick was too when he started in Atlanta). What Tebow is working with is basically starting with the zone read that is the key play to the spread offense. They do run some stretch handoffs from under center but a lot of what he is doing is from shotgun.

I was watching some of the analysis postgame and one of them on ESPN was talking about how the offense Denver uses creates a "third reaction sense" in a lot of defenses because when you see that ball go into the belly of the running back you generally have two reactions: run with the running back or pass. With this offense Denver runs, its run to the running back, run to the quarterback or pass. Tebow also showed some unbelievable touch on throws yesterday. the two that most prominently come to mind are the TD to Eddie Royal in the first quarter and the throw to the sideline to DT with Ike Taylor practically in his jock strap. Those were not throws I was seeing him make earlier this year, or even in the six game winning streak. That said, Tebow is a very different animal as a QB, even compared to his contemporaries.

[flamehunter]

That's true. But the only one reason I skipped to that for Schuab was because he only started 2 games prior to that start. Also, keep in mind that his first starting season was about 20% better than Tebow's.

I said this once and I'll say it again, the QB is comparable to an engine on a ship. Would you really want to be captain of a ship where the engine only worked 45% of the time?

Sorry but I wouldn't want to be the captain of a ship where the engine worked only 90% of the time. Bad analogy.

[Cider Jim]

Name one NFL QB that completed less than 50% his first two years and was still starting for that team 5 years later.

Terry Bradshaw
Drew Bledsoe
Bob Greise
Dan Fouts
John Elway
Fran Tarkenton
Phil Simms
Joe Namath

Lefty firing with both barrels! I love it.

[RubberMallet]

He threw for more yards than anyone had against the Steelers ALL year.


Overall, the Broncos made the big plays the needed to make in order to win. The catalyst to those big plays on the offensive end is Tim Tebow. This is the same Broncos team that was 1-4. Just with a different guy taking the snaps on offense.

Yeah, he got the most banged up steelers team all season. The guy that was 1-4 with the Broncos was Kyle Orton. Orton couldn't motivate a squirrel on acid. One thing Tebow does do well is lead. However, if you honestly think he's going to develop into a good QB, you're insane. Name one NFL QB that completed less than 50% his first two years and was still starting for that team 5 years later.

Terry Bradshaw
Drew Bledsoe
Bob Greise
Dan Fouts
John Elway
Fran Tarkenton
Phil Simms
Joe Namath

Just a few who started their career with a season or two in the 40's and very low 50's for completion percentages. And that's not including guys from before the merger, since I already know what you'd say about them.

I'll wait for your next baseless claim or remark. I don't mind looking around to continue to find that you write checks you can't cash.

different time for football for those guys to be honest. back then 50% was the number. with the way defenses have been neutered those numbers aren't apples for apples.

but they do hold meaning still. i don't think this cat will be a everyday starter qb for long, but he is only a sophmore so its totally wide open. this past game against a solid defense (although banged up) was a real step up from his regular season wins.

[RubberMallet]

The defense was really coming through in the clutch yesterday

they techically did come through in the clutch yesterday. but your point is right.

[RubberMallet]

If I were Fox, I would trade Tebow right at the end of the season since he'll have trade value. He's not going to have any mid way through next season.

this is crazy. while a football team's #1 reason for existence is championships, its #1a reason is making $$$.

tebow is a cash cow and there is no reason for the broncos to let this guy go. even as a 2nd string qb, this guy generates cash as people love a backup qb for some reason and he is the creme de la creme of backups if being a starter doesn't pan out.

[adam42381]

If I was running a ship and my engine only worked 47.5% of the time, would I want to keep the engine long term?

So you'd be happy if your engine worked 70% of the time? I'd probably be looking for a new engine manufacturer.

[RubberMallet]

yeah, that was an awful analogy.

[scuzdriver]

If I were Fox, I would trade Tebow right at the end of the season since he'll have trade value. He's not going to have any mid way through next season.

this is crazy. while a football team's #1 reason for existence is championships, its #1a reason is making $$$.

tebow is a cash cow and there is no reason for the broncos to let this guy go. even as a 2nd string qb, this guy generates cash as people love a backup qb for some reason and he is the creme de la creme of backups if being a starter doesn't pan out.

You are right Rubber. The Denver Post estimated the other day that Tebow has brought in at least 20 mil to the NFL and at least 2 mil to the Broncos this year alone. Money talks.

[ToTheLeft]

Let's ditch the engine analogy.

Let's talk money.

Imagine you're investing, and 65% of the stocks you invest in give you a good return.

Imaging someone else is investing and 45% of the time, they get good return.

However, the 45% is still making almost much money as you are (Just like Tebow throwing in the 200's and 300's despite fewer attempts and completions.)

Would you rather get a good return 65% of the time? Of course. But if you're going to hit big 45% of the time, and you KNOW you can hit big 45%-50% of the time, plus being able to get money in some other, creative ways (e.g., Tebow's running and the respect defense give to his running threat), I think you'll take it.

[RubberMallet]

look guys i like analogy's as much as the next guy but LOL

[RubberMallet]

oh and can i say for a second, when people talk about qb's how is phill simms even get into these conversations? is it because he's on tv? he was awful and not surprisingly has found a way to continue to be awful after all these years.