[From the class of 09]

Thoughts on this hit illegal? legal? The hit is shown at about 1:32

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[Kolzilla41]

That is absolutely leading with the helmet. Should be a PF and an ejection in college.

[RubberMallet]

i dont think you'll find anyone justifying that.

[TDDance234]

Led with the head and left his feet. Then got up and danced like a d-----.

[adam42381]

I agree with everyone else. Not much to justify there. It was a cheap shot.

[From the class of 09]

fyi Martin wasn't flagged for the hit but yesterday the Big 12 suspended him for Neb next game (Missouri). Is it normal for the conference to impose suspensions on players? Is there a larger NCAA body that does this?

[adam42381]

fyi Martin wasn't flagged for the hit but yesterday the Big 12 suspended him for Neb next game (Missouri). Is it normal for the conference to impose suspensions on players? Is there a larger NCAA body that does this?

From my understanding, the conference typically doles out punishment for situations like this. The NCAA usually sticks to major violations.

[From the class of 09]

Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops said he hadn’t seen the play that caused the suspension. When told it came on a blind hit on a kickoff return, Stoops was surprised.

He thought the rule was put into place to protect defenseless players. A defender running downfield on a kickoff isn’t defenseless the way a receiver jumping for a ball is.

“I’m kind of asking because I want to make sure I’m telling our guys the right things,” Stoops said. “If it’s beyond defenseless players, now you’re saying you can’t hit anybody in the helmet, so I’m trying to get some clarity myself before this weekend to know why one is and one isn’t.

“I don’t know how clear it is.”

Stoops also said OU fullback Trey Millard was hit in a similar manner by a Missouri player the second time OU kicked off last Saturday.

There was no penalty on the play and Martin wasn’t called for one last week either. The difference might have been that the Oklahoma State player was knocked out of the game. Millard wasn’t.

OU safety Quinton Carter was called for a personal foul in the second half for “targeting above the head” on a tackle. But the Big 12 office took no action.

http://normantranscript.com/sports/x104 ... n-question

I guess this was kinda my thought but from yawls reaction I would say I might be showing a little of my husker bias

[prototype]

Let'em play... Hit was fine.

[thepostman]

so is this the new thing in sports people are getting all ticked about? Its football, its a dangerous sport...its still a whole lot safer then UFC...people just need to chill

[adam42381]

so is this the new thing in sports people are getting all ticked about? Its football, its a dangerous sport...its still a whole lot safer then UFC...people just need to chill

The hit was unnecessary. Obviously, football is a dangerous sport and people are going to get hurt sometimes. Why not eliminate hits that have no purpose but to try to injure someone? There are ways to block someone without putting a hit on them that could do permanent damage.

[ToTheLeft]

so is this the new thing in sports people are getting all ticked about? Its football, its a dangerous sport...its still a whole lot safer then UFC...people just need to chill

The hit was unnecessary. Obviously, football is a dangerous sport and people are going to get hurt sometimes. Why not eliminate hits that have no purpose but to try to injure someone? There are ways to block someone without putting a hit on them that could do permanent damage.

Exactly.

If you want to watch people attempt to injure one another, watch a combat sport. Football is a tough sport, but the purpose isn't to injure. Launching your helmet into someone else's head can only lead to injury, and it's not even something that involves skill. A good form tackle involves skill, using your body as a weapon doesn't.

[thepostman]

please, don't act like football over the years hasn't caused this. It has glorified big hits for so long, but all of a sudden it becomes a big deal and everybody is jumping on the bandwagon...

I am not saying the hit was needed, but I think its fairly hypocritical that the same media outlets and people that have showcased big hits over the years are all of a sudden upset about what is going on...

[ToTheLeft]

please, don't act like football over the years hasn't caused this. It has glorified big hits for so long, but all of a sudden it becomes a big deal and everybody is jumping on the bandwagon...

I am not saying the hit was needed, but I think its fairly hypocritical that the same media outlets and people that have showcased big hits over the years are all of a sudden upset about what is going on...

Okay, seriously, enough of this.

It's not big hits that are the problem. It's launching and using your helmet. That's not a big hit, it's a dirty hit. And I don't remember that ever being glorified in the NFL.

Show me a top-10 plays clip where a guy did what this kid did and got praised for it. It doesn't happen. I mentioned the Sheldon Brown tackle on Reggie Bush when we talked about this earlier. That's a really famous hit and it was huge, yet perfectly clean. Those are still legal and no one is complaining about them. It's garbage like trying to ruin a guy's brain with a helmet-to-helmet that's creating a stir, especially as we learn more about what concussions can do.

So enough of this "the NFL doesn't want big hits" crap. That's not the case and it's never been that way. The NFL is built on fast, tough, athletic plays, but throwing your helmet into someone else's head is none of those, it's cheap, it's dirty, and it's dangerous, and THAT's what they're cracking down on.

[adam42381]

please, don't act like football over the years hasn't caused this. It has glorified big hits for so long, but all of a sudden it becomes a big deal and everybody is jumping on the bandwagon...

I am not saying the hit was needed, but I think its fairly hypocritical that the same media outlets and people that have showcased big hits over the years are all of a sudden upset about what is going on...

Okay, seriously, enough of this.

It's not big hits that are the problem. It's launching and using your helmet. That's not a big hit, it's a dirty hit. And I don't remember that ever being glorified in the NFL.

Show me a top-10 plays clip where a guy did what this kid did and got praised for it. It doesn't happen. I mentioned the Sheldon Brown tackle on Reggie Bush when we talked about this earlier. That's a really famous hit and it was huge, yet perfectly clean. Those are still legal and no one is complaining about them. It's garbage like trying to ruin a guy's brain with a helmet-to-helmet that's creating a stir, especially as we learn more about what concussions can do.

So enough of this "the NFL doesn't want big hits" crap. That's not the case and it's never been that way. The NFL is built on fast, tough, athletic plays, but throwing your helmet into someone else's head is none of those, it's cheap, it's dirty, and it's dangerous, and THAT's what they're cracking down on.

Well said.

[thepostman]

i saw a shoulder hit for one..but either way its not like this is something new...players try to hurt eachother, they have been trying to do so for years and years...just listen to some of the retired players talk about it. What players are doing today is nothing compared to what some of the guys use to do. We just have so much access to so much football and 24 hours a day 7 days a week sports channels that it appears there is just more of this kind of thing going on...

I am not saying what the guy did was right and shouldn't be at all punished, but I don't believe the guy should be betrayed as some kind of villian for doing what he did...

I don't know I just think people get all fired about so easily about things and make it out as if its getting so much worse then it really is...its just become the thing of the moment...every season its something else and soon football will not even be the sport we all love...

[thepostman]

I would like to add I realize most people will not agree with me, but I am just so sick of how every hit even close to being considered helmet to helmet is immediately deemed as dirty.

[prototype]

I would like to add I realize most people will not agree with me, but I am just so sick of how every hit even close to being considered helmet to helmet is immediately deemed as dirty.

I agree. In most cases I'm sure they are just trying to hit them hard to make a tackle or free the ball. If some player comes in and hits them hard correctly (as you all say), but the guy breaks the tackle and scores - then people will say he can't tackle.

[Liberty4Life]

Here's a simple solution: If you leave your feet, you are HITTING someone, not TACKLING.

[prototype]

If you tackling someone much Bigger than you, sometimes leaving your feet is the only option to create enough leverage. And who is going to rule on that? After reviewing that last tackle, number 21 was determined to be 2 inches off the ground. What about when a defender jumps over the O-Line? Is that now a penalty? What about a goal-line defense? Can LB's not jump up to stop a jumping RB?

[ALUmnus]

Here's a simple solution: If you leave your feet, you are HITTING someone, not TACKLING.

That is simple, and stupid.

[ToTheLeft]

Putting your head down and using the top of your helmet is not being a good tackler. Keeping your head up and using your shoulder and body to bring the guy down is clearly the better way to go.

You never see a guy get one of these helmet to helmet hits when he's running in the open field with one man to beat. Why? The defender has to make sure to keep the man in front of him. That means keeping your head up and making a good tackle.

The main times you see these stupid, pointless hits are on plays where the player being hit is:

1. Looking to catch a ball/just recently caught a ball
2. Already being tackled by someone else
3. Running and looking in another direction (blocking, such as in the video that began this discussion)

Those are times when you can get away with being an idiot and taking your eyes off a guy and using your helmet to smash into his brain.

The "if you leave your feet" thing is a stretch, the NFL has it worded well when it says "leading with the helmet" and "helmet to helmet contact" are the issue here. If you leave your feet and drive your shoulder into a guy, he might get the wind knocked out of him or break a rib (or hurt a joint if it gets stuck in the ground or on another player, but the direct impact of the hit only causes broken ribs or simply knocking the wind out), but you could be on the ground and drop your head and break a guys neck with your helmet. I think we can all agree which is preferable.

If you enjoy seeing concussions and paralyzations, I'm sure you can talk to WWE about starting another football league. Tell them you'll pay 99.95 on pay-per-view to watch James Harrison wanna-bes running around throwing their heads into each other until only one man leaves the field. Which, btw, his (Harrison) "I think I'll retire if I can't play the way I always played" cry-baby act was one of the stupidest things I've ever heard in sports.

[thepostman]

i still think that too many hits are considered dirty that aren't, this one was not dirty, there was not helmet to helmet contact so by your standards it should be clean...

you and I aren't going to agree

If you don't think what is considered dirty has been blown way out of proportion then so be it. I just disagree

[ToTheLeft]

No helmet to helmet? Really?



That looks pretty much like EXACTLY helmet to helmet. He has the guys whole body to hit. Just knock him over and be done with it. But he put his helmet right into the guys head, which, by the way, did not move down or anything, his head was on the same level the whole time as he ran down the field, he didn't duck into it.

That was as dirty a hit as there can be.

Sorry man, but if you don't think that this hit is...

1. Helmet-to-helmet
2. Very dangerous and unnecessary

Then yes, we'll never agree, because you're wrong on the first point, and therefore misinformed for the second part.

[thepostman]

I had a long response typed out, but its not worth it. I was wrong, it was helmet to helmet, but my opinion doesn't change. It was not dirty/intentional.