[soccer7]

I think it would be great if LU was grinding gears to get into the BIG EAST!! I would give everything I have to the football program if that happend I would buy an RV and travel to every conference away game and love it!!

[PAmedic]

Big South Projections

Football

Catawba
Charleston Southern
Liberty
Newberry
Presbyterian
Savannah State

Plus the other Sports.

Campbell
High Point
Longwood
UNC Asheville
Radford
Winthrop

Winthrop, Gardner Webb, and Coastal Carolina will merge with former MEAC members like SC State as well as successfull Gulf Coast teams to create a Carolina League.

After Fordham leaves for the CAA, the Patriot League picks up VMI.

The Big South picks us the successful Savanah State, Longwood and two up and coming programs. In order to maintain the auto bid, Campbell will play in the Big South Conference for two years (without scholarship) until Catawba and Newberry are fully D I programs. Of course that only gives 5 teams for the time being, but KK will say we'll be good.

that's possibly the most depressing thing I've ever read.

And I thought you were the Pro-BSOUTH guy around here.

[PAmedic]

I think it would be great if LU was grinding gears to get into the BIG EAST!! I would give everything I have to the football program if that happend I would buy an RV and travel to every conference away game and love it!!

I FULLY ENDORSE THIS POST.

WHICH IS WHY I'M YELLING.

[soccer7]

Big South Projections

Football

Catawba
Charleston Southern
Liberty
Newberry
Presbyterian
Savannah State

Plus the other Sports.

Campbell
High Point
Longwood
UNC Asheville
Radford
Winthrop

Winthrop, Gardner Webb, and Coastal Carolina will merge with former MEAC members like SC State as well as successfull Gulf Coast teams to create a Carolina League.

After Fordham leaves for the CAA, the Patriot League picks up VMI.

The Big South picks us the successful Savanah State, Longwood and two up and coming programs. In order to maintain the auto bid, Campbell will play in the Big South Conference for two years (without scholarship) until Catawba and Newberry are fully D I programs. Of course that only gives 5 teams for the time being, but KK will say we'll be good.

that's possibly the most depressing thing I've ever read.

And I thought you were the Pro-BSOUTH guy around here.

I agree with you on this one this would be very sad and would make the BSC weaker than it already is. If you think LU fans are complaining now...I would hate to heard what people would have to say if this scenario unfolds. On a side note it is interesting to see all these schools from DII's South Atlantic Conference comming to the BSC when they become DI (Elon-before they left, Gardner-Webb, Presby, Catawba and Newberry).

[JK37]

So it looks like our hypothetical involves 2 options, both involving football:

1. Do we stay IAA and find a stronger existing conference (Southern, Colonial, etc.)?
2. So we make the big jump up to IA and find an existing conference or join a new one forming?

(Or, do we combine 1 & 2 as part of our 5-10 year plan?)

PS--I've not seen any love for the Big South being the "ideal conference."

Just as the 60k is not immediate, neither will be the FBS move. I believe there'll be a transition between BSC and that. But of course, I'd be all in favor of a direct move. I just simply don't see it.

[SumItUp]

Big South Projections

Football

Catawba
Charleston Southern
Liberty
Newberry
Presbyterian
Savannah State

I just threw up a little in my mouth.

[Schfourteenteen]

Forgot to end that with /sarcasm.

Sorry.

I think the Big South will have the opportunity to add some decent schools from the MEAC the minute the MEAC goes for that chamionship game with the SWAC.

Liberty probably wont move until they move up to the FBS level. The timing for that will be determined by other schools moving up or an opportunity to move somewhere worth it.

The CAA wont split unless the NCAA steps in. Maine, New Hampshire, and URI have 0 to gain by forming a Northern conference with Stony Brook, Albany, CCSU and Fordham. Although that would be a good looking conference it would be a step down for the CAA castoffs.

Even if the CAA splits, what are the chances we get in there?


FBS Conference Possibilities

Army
Marshall
East Carolina
Old Dominion
James Madison
Liberty
Georgia State
Navy
Temple
Western Kentucky

The more you look at each team, the more apparent it becomes that either 1) About 4 or 5 more FCS teams would need to make the jump or 2) Liberty's only ticket up is through a pre existing conference.

[SuperJon]

Maine, New Hampshire, and URI have 0 to gain by forming a Northern conference with Stony Brook, Albany, CCSU and Fordham. Although that would be a good looking conference it would be a step down for the CAA castoffs.

I disagree with this. It'd be much easier for some of those schools to get into the playoffs when only competing against those other schools for the auto-bid, and not Richmond, JMU, Delaware, W&M, and Nova.

[Schfourteenteen]

An alternative theory, which would be completly unfounded:The CUSA splits

Southwest Conference
Tulsa
Southern Miss
UTEP
Rice
Houston
Tulane
North Texas
FCS Transfer

Appalachian Conference
Marshall
ECU
Liberty
Old Dominion
James Madison
Georgia State
Troy
UAB

UCF, Memphis would join the Big East

Memphis goes to the Big East

[Sly Fox]

I wonder what the NCAA's policy is on conference splits in regard to auto bids. I guess I should check on the WAC-Mountain West split and then any bylaw changes in its wake.

[Cider Jim]

The Appalachian Conference?
I hear dueling banjos! That would be a marketing and recruiting nightmare.

[Schfourteenteen]

Maine, New Hampshire, and URI have 0 to gain by forming a Northern conference with Stony Brook, Albany, CCSU and Fordham. Although that would be a good looking conference it would be a step down for the CAA castoffs.

I disagree with this. It'd be much easier for some of those schools to get into the playoffs when only competing against those other schools for the auto-bid, and not Richmond, JMU, Delaware, W&M, and Nova.

Intresting. At the same point recruiting takes a major hit as well. UMass wouldnt have the CAA moniker to use in recruiting, and they'd develop 3 new competitors as well.

The Northern teams still only play 3 games against the CAA South, and 1/2 of the teams will play Towson. I just don't see a viable reason for any of those schools to defect from the best conference in FCS.

[Schfourteenteen]

The Appalachian Conference?
I hear dueling banjos! That would be a marketing and recruiting nightmare.

That's why they wont pay me to make up a name.

[Sly Fox]

Since the topic has been raised, here are the NCAA rules & bylaws on the topic:

18.5 AUTOMATIC QUALIFICATION BY CONFERENCE

18.5.1 Division Championship. To be eligible for automatic qualification into any Division I championship, a conference shall: (Revised: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)

• (a) Have at least six member institutions classified in Division I in the sport in which automatic qualification is
  sought; and
  (b) Meet all requirements for conference automatic qualification into any division championship as set forth in Bylaw 31.3.4. (Revised: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)

18.5.2 National Collegiate Championship. [#] To be eligible for automatic qualification into any National Collegiate Championship, a conference shall: (Adopted: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)

• (a) Have a least six active members that sponsor the applicable sport in any division;
  (b) Meet all applicable requirements for conference automatic qualification into any National Collegiate Championship
  as set forth in Bylaw 31.3.4.

18.5.3 Men’s Basketball Eligibility Requirements. For automatic qualification in the sport of men’s
basketball in Division I, a conference shall meet the following additional requirements:

• (a) It shall determine a conference champion in at least six men’s sports [at least two of which must be team sports as set forth in Bylaw 31.3.4.1-(a)]; and in each of these six sports, at least six of the conference’s member institutions shall sponsor the sport on the varsity intercollegiate level; and
  (b) It shall conduct double round-robin, in-season conference competition, or a minimum of 14 conference
  games, before declaring its champion in basketball. (Revised: 1/10/91 effective 8/1/91)

More details ...

31.3.4 Automatic Qualification. Each governing sport committee shall forward annually to the Championships/Sports Management Cabinet those conferences that should receive automatic qualification for their teams or individual student-athletes into NCAA championships. Prior to forwarding the list of conferences to receive automatic qualification, a governing sport committee shall ensure that the member conference meets the requirements specified in Bylaws 31.3.4.1 through 31.3.4.7. A member conference may appeal to the Championships/Sports Management Cabinet the automatic-qualification review of the sport committee and the committee’s decision to find, or not find, a conference qualified for automatic-qualification status. The decision of the Championships/Sports Management Cabinet on such appeals will be final. (Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 4/27/00, 11/1/07 effective 8/1/08)

31.3.4.1 Requirements—Division Championship. To be eligible for automatic qualification in a Division Championship, a member conference must meet the following requirements: (Revised: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)

• (a) Conference competition must be conducted in the applicable sport and the conference champion in that sport must be determined not later than the date on which participants are selected for the NCAA championship, either by regular in-season conference competition or a conference meet or tournament, as indicated at the time of application. If a conference’s competition to determine its automatic qualifier is unexpectedly terminated (e.g., due to inclement weather), the conference may designate its qualifier, provided it has established objective criteria for making that designation and has communicated that information to the appropriate sports committee by a specified deadline. (Revised: 8/13/93)
  (b) In the event of a tie for the conference championship, the conference shall have the responsibility of determining which team or individual shall represent the conference in NCAA competition. If a play-off is held, such competition shall be considered conference competition, not NCAA competition.
  (c) In sports other than championship subdivision football, a conference may establish subdivisions and conduct competition within each subdivision to determine a conference champion, as long as each subdivision consists of at least four members. Conferences with subdivisions of four members must conduct double round-robin competition within each subdivision, plus a postseason tournament, to determine their champion. Conferences with subdivisions of five or more members may conduct either single or double round-robin competition within each subdivision, plus a postseason tournament to determine their champion. (Note: This regulation does not apply to Division I men’s or women’s basketball. In those sports, a conference may conduct either double round-robin, in-season competition, or a minimum of 14 conference games in order to determine its champion.) (Revised: 12/9/91, 10/18/95, 10/27/98, 12/15/06)
  (d) In championship subdivision football, football-playing conferences that subdivide into five or more teams are required to conduct a single round-robin competition within each division and develop a formula for determination of the conference champion, which must be approved by the Football Championship Committee prior to the start of the season. A postseason championship game is not required. (Adopted: 10/27/98, Revised: 12/15/06)
  (e) The conference must maintain and actively enforce compliance with eligibility rules at least as stringent as those in Bylaw 14 applicable to its members. The use of an ineligible student-athlete by a team in a conference that has been granted automatic qualification may result in the involved team being denied the right to be the automatic entry in the NCAA championship. The governing sports committee may recommend loss of the automatic-qualification privilege for the conference during the season in which the violation occurred or for a future championship.
  (f ) All eligible member institutions must agree to participate in the appropriate NCAA championship. If a conference champion is ineligible to compete, declines to compete or cannot compete for any reason, automatic qualification shall be withdrawn for that year and the remaining conference members shall be considered at large. Automatic qualification for a conference shall not be withdrawn if a conference champion declines to compete in an NCAA championship for reasons related to written religious policies against competition on certain days. Under such circumstances, the conference’s second-place team (as determined by the conference), shall receive the automatic bid to the NCAA championship. (Revised:
  4/20/99)
  (g) All institutions may hold membership in only that conference in the sport in which automatic qualification is sought and may participate in only that conference’s process to determine the automatic qualifier. (Adopted: 12/5/94)

31.3.4.2 Requirements—National Collegiate Championship. [#] To be eligible for automatic qualification in National Collegiate Championship, a member conference must meet the following general requirements: (Adopted: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)

• (a) Have at least six active members that sponsor the applicable sport in any division (note: a provisional member in the process of becoming an NCAA member cannot be used to meet the requisite number);
  (b) The six active members must have conducted conference competition together for the preceding two years in the applicable sport;
  (c) There shall be no waivers of the two-year waiting period; and
  (d) Any new member added to a conference that is eligible for an automatic bid shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the automatic qualifer.

31.3.4.3 Notification—Automatic Qualification in Jeopardy. A governing sports committee must issue a written warning one year in advance to a conference that is in jeopardy of losing its automatic qualification.
(Note: This regulation does not apply to the following championships in which a play-in system has been established: baseball, women’s softball, women’s volleyball and men’s soccer.) (Adopted: 10/3/06)

31.3.4.4 Additional Requirements, Sports Other Than Men’s Basketball.

31.3.4.4.1 Multi-Sport Conference. To be considered eligible for automatic qualification in a particular sport, a multi-sport conference must include six core institutions that satisfy continuity-of-membership. For the purposes of this legislation, core refers to an institution that has been an active member of Division I the eight preceding years. Further, the continuity-of-membership requirement shall be met only if a minimum of six core institutions have conducted conference competition together in Division I the preceding two years in the applicable sport. There shall be no exceptions to the two-year period. Any new member added to a conference that satisfies the continuity of membership requirements shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the automatic qualifier. (Revised: 4/27/00, 10/00, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 8/5/04)

31.3.4.4.1.1 Exception. A multi-sport conference that adds a conference-sponsored sport may be considered for automatic qualification in that sport, provided the conference includes at least six active Division I institutions that have conducted conference competition together at the Division I level in the sport the preceding two years and the sport is sponsored by less than 50 percent of the Division I membership. (Adopted: 4/27/06 effective 8/1/06)

31.3.4.4.2 Single Sport Conference. To be considered for automatic qualification in a particular sport, a single sport member conference for a sport sponsored by less than 50 percent of the Division I membership must include six institutions that have conducted conference competition together the preceding two years in the sport in question at the Division I level. (Adopted: 8/5/04, Revised: 4/27/06 effective 8/1/06)

31.3.4.4.3 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall below six institutions, or below six members with continuity of membership, provided the conference maintains at least five Division I members. (Adopted: 8/5/04)

31.3.4.4.4 Exception—2002-03 Academic Year. After September 1, 2003, a member conference that met the requirements for automatic qualification during the 2002-03 academic year may continue to receive automatic qualification provided the conference composition does not change (unless the change results in the addition of a core member). (Adopted: 4/24/03)

31.3.4.5 Additional Requirements, Men’s Basketball. The member conference must include seven core institutions. For the purposes of this legislation, core refers to an institution that has been an active member of Division I the eight preceding years. Further, the continuity-of-membership requirement shall be met only if a minimum of six core institutions have conducted conference competition together in Division I the preceding five years in men’s basketball. There shall be no exception to the five-year waiting period. Any new member added to a member conference that satisfies these requirements shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the automatic qualifier. (Revised: 8/14/90, 12/3/90, 4/27/00, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04)

31.3.4.5.1 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall below seven institutions, or below six members with continuity of membership, provided the conference maintains at least six Division I members. (Adopted: 4/27/00, Revised: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04)

31.3.4.5.2 Exceptions.

• (a) Prior to September 1, 2003, the eight-year core principle does not apply to an institution that was a Division I active member, provisional member or a member in the process of reclassifying to Division I as of April 27, 2000. Such an institution would be subject to the provisions in effect on April 27, 2000. The institution may continue to be considered a core institution after September 1, 2003, even if the institution has not been an active member of Division I the eight preceding years. (Revised: 11/01/01)
  (b) Men’s Basketball. After September 1, 2003, a member conference as of September 1, 1999, may continue to apply the automatic qualification requirements in effect September 1, 1999, until any change (e.g., adding or losing any member) in its men’s basketball membership occurs. Thereafter, the automatic qualification regulations in effect September 1, 2003, shall be applicable.

31.3.4.6 Sports Groupings for Automatic Qualification. For purposes of evaluating criteria for automatic qualification, the various sports shall be grouped as follows:

• (a) Team sports—baseball, basketball, field hockey, football, ice hockey, lacrosse, soccer, softball, volleyball and water polo. In this category, subject to the approval of the Championships/Sports Management Cabinet, a sport committee may grant exceptions to the six-team requirement for sports that are sponsored by less than 30 percent of the membership, provided the conference previously included six teams that sponsored the sport; (Revised: 4/26/07 effective 8/1/07, 11/1/07 effective 8/1/08)
  (b) Timed individual sports—indoor track and field, outdoor track and field, and swimming; and
  (c) Other individual sports—cross country, fencing, golf, gymnastics, rifle, skiing, tennis and wrestling. In this category, a sports committee may grant exceptions to the six-team requirement, subject to the approval of the Championships/Sports Management Cabinet. (Revised: 11/1/07 effective 8/1/08)

31.3.4.7 Limitations on Automatic-Qualifying Positions.

• 31.3.4.7.1 Team Sports Other Than Men’s Basketball. In team sports, per Bylaw 31.3.4.6-(a), excluding the sport of football and any team sport in which automatic qualification is not offered, a sports committee must award, when a sufficient number of applications for automatic qualification exist, at least 50 percent of the championship field to conferences that meet automatic-qualification criteria and provide a play-in criteria. The remaining 50 percent of the championship field shall be reserved for at-large teams. It will be the responsibility of the Championships/Sports Management Cabinet to determine if conference play-ins to a championship field are to be administered by the NCAA championships staff or by the member conferences. (Adopted: 4/20/99, Revised: 11/1/07 effective 8/1/08)
  
  31.3.4.7.2 Men’s Basketball. In men’s basketball, subject to the championships-access guarantee afforded to the subdivisions as set forth in Constitution 4.01.2.3.1 (e.g., all contests that are part of the championship shall be administered and funded by the NCAA and broadcast on television and any team that participates in the championship shall be awarded at least one financial unit), there shall be a limit minimum of 32 at-large selections and the remainder of the championship field automatic qualifying positions. All competition in the championship is to be administered by the NCAA championships staff. (Adopted: 4/20/99, Revised: 12/15/06)

[SuperJon]

Yeah, I'm not reading all of that. Summarize?

[Sly Fox]

Yeah, I'm not reading all of that. Summarize?

In a nutshell, to start up a new FBS-level all-sports regional league will be challenging. The biggest hurdle is a 2-year period without automatic bids to NCAA tourneys unless at least 6 schools who have competed together in the same league move together. That's highly unlikely to happen unless the CAA full members elected to move up together. Since that doesn't seem likely to happen let's look at other options.

A "marriage of convenience" for two years with an existing league that already has an auto bid would be a more likely step. Finding a willing partner might be tough but this would be a viable option as well. Under this concept, the new FBS league could be created immediately since their are no auto bid concerns at the I-A level. But the schools in the newly formed league would need to move the rest of their teams into the same league together for two years so that after the probation period they could be auto bid eligible from the get-go under the new label. Confused yet?

At first glance it might sound crazy for a league to consider letting in up to six schools for just a 2-year window knowing that they will be leaving before they even join. But much like the Big South's arrangement with Stony Brook for football, there are times when a league will agree to certain things recognizing the short term benefits will ultimately give them leverage for long-term gain. Since I mentioned the Big South, do you think Kyle would be willing to let in say Appy, JMU, ODU, Georgia Southern & Georgia State for two years? Do you think he would then have a very appealing pitch to potential expansion targets that if they jump ship they could hang with some quality programs for a couple of years? There are a slew of non-football leagues that might consider such a short term arrangement.

Now let's look at Schfourteenteen's C-USA idea. If the league knows that Marshall & ECU are gone in two years one way or the other, would they consider a deal where 4 new members on the East Coast are brought in while they bring in teams in Texas? It sounds crazy at first but it has the potential work on several different levels.

Of course, the bylaws could change before the moratorium is lifted in August 2011 in time for the 2011 football season.

Q. Is it permissible for Division I institutions to seek Division I conference membership in another existing Division I conference during the moratorium?

A. Yes. Conference realignment may occur during the moratorium; however, no new single sport or multisport conference will be elected to active Division I conference membership during the four-year period. Applications for conference membership for the 2011-2012 academic year should be received in the national office not later than June 1, 2011.

Click Here for More Details

[Schfourteenteen]

You sounded good until you said "Let's look at 14's idea" and didnt follow it with "That's a pile of crap."

What league would consider being a stepping stone like that? Yes, the Big South used ONE team to get the auto bid, but I doubt any leagues would consider bringing 3-6 teams in for a couple years. After the teams are gone, what is left of the conference?

[Sly Fox]

That conference would have to be going through a transition of its own.

PS - Thanks for actually reading that epistle. I didn't think anyone would actually try to follow me through all that convoluted rambling.

[Schfourteenteen]

Yeah I came to that conclusion as well. Problem there lies in the lack of conferences able to do that. The CAA would be the only conference that could make the switch without a major landscape change. They wouldn't be able to with all the non football members (VCU, GMU, Drexel) unless they shed alot of teams.

The SoCon has too many members as well, and the AE and A10 aren't geographically centered around the I-FCS hopefuls.

That leaves the Big South. We all know that would never happen, but there could be a potential to run a ridiculous deal here. Presby's D I status is uncertain, and 2 teams Liberty and Stony Brook have some ability to make a transition. The plan would include dropping poor funded schools over time - 1st UNCA, HP, then Chuck South, GW, Radford and VMI when the transition is made. Coastal would stay in the conference as a full time member but play football in the SoCon(Chatty drops?) until they are ready to make the move.

Could they sell the move to Georgia State, ODU, and JMU? NO. And that's why the conference transition wouldnt happen. Those three teams would be hurting their recruiting abilities in attempting to make a move up.

[JK37]

FWIW, HP is not poorly funded. And, it is in their plans to start-up football in the not-to-distant future. They have the land, and the money. And they're going to do it right.

[Hold My Own]

Heck no HP isnt poorly funded...their President is SERIOUS down there and knows how to raise money. I think when he first took the job he promised to raise $200 million for construction and I think he's well over 300 now. I think the money is coming from the mob but who cares!


Talk to their President anytime you have the chance...he's a brilliant businessman who has the attitude he can do anything. He was asked arent you land locked here at HP? He said there is no such thing as land locked when you have money, you make those with homes surrounding the campus an offer they cannot refuse....then you tear it down and build what you need.

[LUconn]

brilliant businessman, eh? Is he like a former CEO of Grand Home Furnishing or something? Grew up in Thomasville? Ethan Allen III?

[Hold My Own]

I'm not sure...all i know is seriously after 5 minutes of talking with him you're afraid the mob is going to come after you.

Keep in mind this is the same man who had the audacity (which I really like) to come onto a LU Bus that was down in HP, introduce himself to the coach on the bus and said I'm going to be buying your school one day. And he wasnt joking. hahaha the guy is intense. He said that expansion wont be a problem b/c he will force the residents out and he was right. He's done everything he said he would plus 100 million more.