[belcherboy]

Well democratic platform is for pro choice. A fancy word for abortion. Last I checked the repub platform is pro life

No, pro choice is what it means, it means you have a right to choose an abortion if you want to. It isn't another word for abortion. While my beliefs tend to line up with conservatives, I always find this element of the platform very hypocritical. Many of the same people who claim we should the smallest government possible also rail to make criminal the choice of having an abortion.

This thread has certainly been eye opening. Huge mistake by your school.

One of my biggest beefs is that the government helps fund this "right to choose". Our tax money helps people get abortions.

[scuzdriver]

I think it's a great move by JJ. LU is should stand apart. Why should LU cower to anyone in its beliefs? I also agree with the idea presented above about having a "christian voting club" instead of republicans or democrats. Great idea! If you don't agree with LU's policies, go somewhere else. It's still a free country......for now.

[vastrightwinger]

What exactly is a "Christian Voter?" I have met a lot of Christians that differ on a lot of voting issues and have valid reasons why. Aside from Abortion and gay marriage, which seems to be the two issues that most people get hung up on, how should a Christian vote? I am genuinely curious.

[RubberMallet]

What exactly is a "Christian Voter?" I have met a lot of Christians that differ on a lot of voting issues and have valid reasons why. Aside from Abortion and gay marriage, which seems to be the two issues that most people get hung up on, how should a Christian vote? I am genuinely curious.

lol i know....most dem's i know in regards to abortion and gay marriage are like "thats so far on the bottom of the priority list" and many of them are prolife and agaisnt gay marriage... a polititian could have the magic formula for fixing everything in our nation but one hint of being prochoice and NO I WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM... i understand passion but you aren't going to get everything we want. but dont' freak out on me if i happen to support a politicion who may be prochoice.

i'm pretty much a conservative republican. i claim independence just based off the fact that the party seems to be veering away from my beliefs. i am all for gvt. but i believe in small local gvt. However, i understand democratic fiscal and social policy and i understand why someone would want to implement it. however democratic policy is just wishful thinking and completely flawed. it would work if we were all robots.

[Schfourteenteen]

Liberty University is a distinctly Christian university with a stated mission of training Champions for Christ. It is the largest and fastest growing evangelical University in the world. Students and parents appreciate and support the values of the University.

Officially recognized student clubs and organizations that bear the name of Liberty University are expected to uphold the standards and principles of the University and act in a manner consistent with its mission. For nearly two years the University has been evaluating how best to advance its mission and to support student organizations. In order to avoid the problems encountered by other faith-based educational institutions involving student organizations, Liberty University has adopted a policy that governs such groups.

The policy states, in part: “No student club or organization shall be approved, recognized or permitted to meet on campus, advertise, distribute or post materials, or use University facilities if the statements, positions, doctrines, policies, constitutions, bylaws, platforms, activities or events of such club or organization, its parent, affiliate, chapter or similarly named group are inconsistent or in conflict with the distinctly Christian mission of the University.”

Among other things, Liberty University stands for the sanctity of human life. The loss of human life through abortion is a great tragedy and we cannot remain silent when the political policies or politicians promote the destruction of innocent human life. While students may meet on campus, debate, and discuss important and controversial issues of the day, Liberty University will not lend its name or fund organizations whose stated purpose is to promote and advance issues that are contrary to its Christian mission.

Over the last several decades, Democratic clubs have existed at Liberty University as unofficial student clubs not endorsed by the school. Last Fall, the College Democrats asked that the university officially recognize their club. They promised to support only pro-life candidates and their charter provides that the club supports the right to life. Unfortunately, the club supported candidates over the last 8 months that support abortion rights. As a result, Liberty University converted the club’s status back to that of an unrecognized club. It was not banned as so many press outlets irresponsibly reported. The club can continue to exist and meet on campus like other clubs and student groups that are not officially recognized by the university. They cannot use Liberty University’s name, will not receive the small financial subsidy that officially recognized clubs receive (about $500 per year on average) and they cannot hold public events on campus. There will be no other restrictions on their activities. Liberty University encourages free speech and open debate on its campus and free speech will not be restricted.

Liberty University is not singling out the Democratic Party in this action. If a Republican club supporting abortion sought endorsement from the University, it would be denied. The sanctity of life is one of Liberty University’s non-negotiable core values and it simply cannot lend its name or financial support to any group that actively works against Liberty’s core values.

A student club of Democrats who are pro-life and pro-family, and who are seriously intent on bringing positive change to the Democratic Party, would be refreshing. But the rhetoric must match the actions, meaning that such a club seeking official recognition would not want to endorse policies or candidates contrary to Liberty’s mission. Such a group should state in its’ name its’ distinctive mission to immediately tell the world that this club stands for the core values of Liberty University.

We hope that our students bring positive change to all political parties, not just Democrats, but also Republicans and Independents. These groups could debate many topics, but agree on Liberty’s core values. Liberty will not lend its name and financial support to any club or organization that actively seeks to undermine the mission of the University and its core values.

[matshark]

Well democratic platform is for pro choice. A fancy word for abortion. Last I checked the repub platform is pro life

No, pro choice is what it means, it means you have a right to murder your unborn child if you want to. It isn't another word for abortion. While my beliefs tend to line up with conservatives, I always find this element of the platform very hypocritical. Many of the same people who claim we should the smallest government possible also rail to make criminal the choice of having an abortion.

This thread has certainly been eye opening. Huge mistake by your school.

FIXED!

[Ed Dantes]

Liberty will not lend its name and financial support to any club or organization that actively seeks to undermine the mission of the University and its core values.

We have a wrestling club, and that promotes rolling around with sweaty men while wearing tight short shorts... isn't that against one of Liberty's core values?

[Realist]

No, pro choice is what it means, it means you have a right to choose an abortion if you want to. It isn't another word for abortion. While my beliefs tend to line up with conservatives, I always find this element of the platform very hypocritical. Many of the same people who claim we should the smallest government possible also rail to make criminal the choice of having an abortion.

Come on. This isn't wart removal. I at least understand where pro-choicers are coming from. Are you really that obtuse that you don't know we see this as ending a life? Are we just trying to control women? Don't be silly.

No, I see it as ending a life too. I also, however, realize that this isn't as cut and dry as someone murdering someone walking down the street. People believe differently than I or you do, and don't believe it is ending a life. This touches on religion, and the government should have no role in religion.

[Realist]

Well democratic platform is for pro choice. A fancy word for abortion. Last I checked the repub platform is pro life

No, pro choice is what it means, it means you have a right to murder your unborn child if you want to. It isn't another word for abortion. While my beliefs tend to line up with conservatives, I always find this element of the platform very hypocritical. Many of the same people who claim we should the smallest government possible also rail to make criminal the choice of having an abortion.

This thread has certainly been eye opening. Huge mistake by your school.

FIXED!

Yeah, this is the only time I'll ever respond to you. You're the reason LU has a bad name in many circles.

[BJWilliams]

Alright children...

Well I turned on the news and looks like this story for now has a happy ending for both sides

[bigsmooth]

my apologies to Mark Hine for what i said about him. According to Jr., Hine did not say that you could not be a Christian and be democrat. I was quick to say something and im certainly man enough to come out and say i was wrong.

[ALUmnus]

And so the ridiculous backlash begins. Now the petty geniuses at the "Americans United for Seperation of Church and State" are asking the IRS to take away the school's tax-exempt status.

http://www.newsadvance.com/lna/news/loc ... tus/16310/

Do these guys have actual lawyers or accountants working for them? Seriously, I have my doubts.

[Ed Dantes]

Alright children...

Well I turned on the news and looks like this story for now has a happy ending for both sides

I'm sorry, but there is no 'happy ending'. Mark Twain once said that a lie can spread halfway around the world before the truth has enough time to get its boots on. Well, Liberty's 'black eye' spread halfway around the world. Now that it has been "resolved"... it probably isn't going to leave the confines of Lynchburg.

[Libertine]

Well I turned on the news and looks like this story for now has a happy ending for both sides

That's not an ending at all.

[Hold My Own]

So were the things we've been told on here that were said via email never happen?

[mechildress]

This is by no means over!

We are working on a compromise, but it is far from over.

[JK37]

So were the things we've been told on here that were said via email never happen?

If so, what are the chances Olbermann, Maddow, et. al., correcting their hasty judgments void of journalistic research?

Has anyone here considered the timing of everything? Kaine and McAuliffe pounced on this very quickly. I suspect the DNC was working with select members of the Dem Club even before last week, who with stars in their eyes went lock-step with everything they were being spoon-fed along the way: LU is wrong, you are completely right, here's what to say to the media, they are prohibiting you from meeting on cmapus at all (false), etc., etc.

My point is, in an historically RED state in the South, the DNC found a small golden nugget that for months it had been exploiting at little fundraisers and other events. Imagine the pub when they're parading around LU "representatives" in the form of students who are "LU Dem Club" members. Like it or not, Dr. Falwell obviously had great power in the eyes of conservatives nationwide for the better part of 3 decades. The DNC shows students from his founded University openly and publicly supporting Dem candidates: heads turn and suddenly conideration is given where it never could be before. (The other side is that LU donors/parents get very upset.)

On top of that, when LU's administration looked to remove the official status of the club, Kaine and McAuliffe were very quick to respond (too quick? prepared statements in advance?), making a big issue out of this on a national level. They used these students, and the students were probably too young and star-struck in the process to realize what was going on!

And then when gaping flaws are found in the students' representations of the events, they're left in the middle, hung out to dry by politicians they look up to. The more I sit here, thinking and typing about it, the more sick I feel toward Kaine and McAuliffe in all of this.

[JK37]

This is by no means over!

We are working on a compromise, but it is far from over.

How did the club representatives respond in the meeting when their misrepresentations and mistakes were pointed out?

I'm not trying to be hurtful, but accounts and accusations have been made to national media outlets with sketchy or no evidence, let alone the Chancellor's direct assertation that at no point was a Dem/Christian statement made by any administrator at the University. How does the club respond to that? How does the club hold any solid ground on which to push for compromise?

[mechildress]

I'm editing your post for being a total jerk. - El Scorcho

P.S.

If you don't like it, complain to the owner.

I can appreciate your position and support your decision to edit my post. I did find it interesting, however, and my post was in direct reponse to, the decision to allow posts on this thread, even to this day, which refer to a certain administrator at LU as an "idiot" and quotes attributed to that person, if true, puts the person's mental capacity on the moronic stratosphere.

To their credit, the school has gone to great lengths to protect the 18 year old student leader and staff advisor. Kudos to them. Due to the bent this thread had taken at the moderator's discretion, I decided to pull information previously offerred on this web site by the very person in question - who recently opened herself up to nat'l media and I would add, nat'l scrutiny, to give a glimpse of the other side of the story.

The other side of the story isn't pretty, I understand. Perhaps in the future, everyone - moderators, posters and me alike, could be a little more sensitive in this area.

I read your post that was quickly removed, and have a few things to say in response.

1. I am sorry that you have nothing better to do than to search, read, and incorrectly paraphrase my previous posts.
2. Although you have significant time on your hands, you obviously don't have enough time to verify your "facts"
3. I have a pretty sweet office and it hardly resembles anything close to a cubicle.

[Hold My Own]

This is by no means over!

We are working on a compromise, but it is far from over.

How did the club representatives respond in the meeting when their misrepresentations and mistakes were pointed out?

I'm not trying to be hurtful, but accounts and accusations have been made to national media outlets with sketchy or no evidence, let alone the Chancellor's direct assertation that at no point was a Dem/Christian statement made by any administrator at the University. How does the club respond to that? How does the club hold any solid ground on which to push for compromise?

Or the first words be "This is by no means over" instead of, Sorry...I was not completely honest when I was saying things that LU "said" when in fact they did not

[mechildress]

Just in case it isn't crystal clear based on my edit above: You, sir, have made me more angry than I've ever been at something on FlameFans. I don't really care one way or the other what happens to this club or what has previously been said in this post. That's why I haven't replied to it. However, what you said crossed a line that I don't think I've ever seen crossed here.

If you hadn't been here for so long with a previously clean track record you would be gone.

I really can't believe you said that. I'm only posting this in the thread and not a PM so that everyone who had already read it understands it's not acceptable here.

Ugh.

Thanks for "coming to my rescue", but please don't let this get your blood pressure up. I assure you it is not worth it!

[mechildress]

This is by no means over!

We are working on a compromise, but it is far from over.

How did the club representatives respond in the meeting when their misrepresentations and mistakes were pointed out?

I'm not trying to be hurtful, but accounts and accusations have been made to national media outlets with sketchy or no evidence, let alone the Chancellor's direct assertation that at no point was a Dem/Christian statement made by any administrator at the University. How does the club respond to that? How does the club hold any solid ground on which to push for compromise?

Or the first words be "This is by no means over" instead of, Sorry...I was not completely honest when I was saying things that LU "said" when in fact they did not

We are still in negotiations.

[JK37]

This today from www.Christianitytoday.com:

[quote=]Ray Reed writes that the club is drafting an apology to the school and a retraction of some statements it made to the news media last week that accused university administrator Mark Hine of saying a person could not be both a Democrat and a Christian.[/quote]

http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctpol ... _club.html

Again, I am by no means trying to be disrespectful, or rude. I simply want to know. Care to comment, Ms. Childress?

[Hold My Own]

How did the club representatives respond in the meeting when their misrepresentations and mistakes were pointed out?

I'm not trying to be hurtful, but accounts and accusations have been made to national media outlets with sketchy or no evidence, let alone the Chancellor's direct assertation that at no point was a Dem/Christian statement made by any administrator at the University. How does the club respond to that? How does the club hold any solid ground on which to push for compromise?

Or the first words be "This is by no means over" instead of, Sorry...I was not completely honest when I was saying things that LU "said" when in fact they did not

We are still in negotiations.

Negotiations to see if you lied or not? My question is simple, did they or did they not ever say anything about being a Christian and being a Democrat?

[mechildress]

This today from www.Christianitytoday.com:

Ray Reed writes that the club is drafting an apology to the school and a retraction of some statements it made to the news media last week that accused university administrator Mark Hine of saying a person could not be both a Democrat and a Christian.

http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctpol ... _club.html

Again, I am by no means trying to be disrespectful, or rude. I simply want to know. Care to comment, Ms. Childress?

I think I have been.

BTW, what I told Ray Reed is that the university wishes us to draft an apology and retract some statements. I also told him that the chapter is discussing what that will look like.