[Ed Dantes]

My point was that they are getting it legally

#1) I'm sure lawyers for athletes such as Marion Jones, who just served six months in the can, would agree that athletes are getting steroids legally. I'm not sure anyone other than her lawyers would agree. Certainly a jury of Jones' peers didn't.

My point is that they all are trying to get an advantage and at the time it wasn't a rule.

#2) It was a rule. It wasn't strictly enforced, but it was a rule. Further, A-Rod's doping came at a time when it was enforced (they said there would be consequences if enough athletes tested positive, and that threshold was met).

A trainer would tell them to take something that would help them recover quicker, and make them stronger, they are taking it.

#3) Kirk Radomski was a batboy. Players went to him because he could get them steroids. He was not a medical trainer. That's why he pled guilty to illegal steroid distribution. Wally Joyner said he got steroids once, from Ken Caminiti (who later died from a drug overdose). Caminiti isn't a doctor.

A-Rod, Palmeiro, McGuire, and Bonds were all good players before this whole steroid age and should be recognized for their achievements

#4) The funny thing about Palmeiro is, when he was drafted, he wasn't as regarded as highly as his college teammate. His college teammate (Will Clark) had a great career, Palmeiro cheated his way to an even better one. Is that right? We might be talking about Will Clark in this discussion, but we're not, because he played it clean. And he will be forgotten.

now if they currently get tested and test positive then throw the book at them, BUT to spend my tax dollars investigating, organizing panels, grand juries and witting reports on a game is CRAP!!!! Let the individual leagues handle it how they please. We are in a time of Economic crisis, at least that is what I'm being told, and we are wasting money on this???

#5) I spoke with a pro sports VP about this issue, believe it or not. Sports is an important part of our culture, and athletes are looked at as role models. Kids want to emulate their heroes. Steroids is a deadly game, though. By shedding light on this, we are telling kids that drug use is bad, and that people who abuse it are going to be caught and penalized. Congress, in this instance, is looking out for the well-being of its citizens. That sounds like (and this is all according to the VP) and appropriate use of its funds.

Let's not even get in the matter of telling a player that the league is going to take a survey, that would be completely anonymous and then release the results!!!

#6) MLB didn't release this "survey". Federal investigators, who were looking for a crime, did.[/i]

[JMUDukes]

Come on JMUDukes - you don't even want to join this argument - I have seen your Football team - you don't even want me to conduct a drug test...

...

I don't know what you're trying to imply, but we had a starting DT suspended for his senior season due to a failed drug test. So to say that we don't test our players is ridiculous.

[JMUDukes]

Somebody is seriously defending steroids? wow.

Ive been around baseball my whole life. Ive grown up in a professional locker room my whole life. I will 100% defend any steroid user AS LONG AS THEY DO IT AS THEY ARE DIRECTED TO. Thats the only thing...guys like Mac and Bonds abused them. They didnt cycle through them like they should have. I guess growing up where I did Im well versed in all the different steroids and what each different one will do...what Arod tested positive for was Primo which is a odd one for him to take but never the less I still dont hate on him for taking them.

BOTTOM LINE if we lived in a perfect society where nobody would abuse anything steroids would be legal...they are beneficial for anyone who uses them correctly and helps with the repairing of the muscles like Proto was talking about.


My favorite though is when people say "If you saw how I work out you'd know" hahahha thats the WORST excuse for anyone familiar with steroids because they know that it can produce so much testosterone (if you take Test-e which is most common) that you LIVE in the gym and all you want to do is work out...you will end up doing lower body in the AM and upper body in the PM it truly will create a work out machine. Its sick


Anyways I guess I just went on a rant about how I defend steroids but I do...always will as long as they are being looked over by a doctor who has the athletes health in mind

I agree, if they're prescribed by a doctor, then it's perfectly fine.

[Hold My Own]

Come on JMUDukes - you don't even want to join this argument - I have seen your Football team - you don't even want me to conduct a drug test...

...

I don't know what you're trying to imply, but we had a starting DT suspended for his senior season due to a failed drug test. So to say that we don't test our players is ridiculous.

I think hes saying in general....college football players use and thats a fact....and again I dont blame them haha

[ALUmnus]

This all raises Junior's stock higher and higher.

[Sly Fox]

No one would ever accuse Junior of quick recovery times.

[Hold My Own]

Come on JMUDukes - you don't even want to join this argument - I have seen your Football team - you don't even want me to conduct a drug test...

...

I don't know what you're trying to imply, but we had a starting DT suspended for his senior season due to a failed drug test. So to say that we don't test our players is ridiculous.

NCAA testing is a joke...the tests that are pretty good are simply to expensive, you can take any steroid (except dbol) and get it out of your system within a week.

[Fumblerooskies]

The NCAA has gone to year-round testing. At the most, during the academic year or over the summer...you get only one day's notice.

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

Come on JMUDukes - you don't even want to join this argument - I have seen your Football team - you don't even want me to conduct a drug test...

...

I don't know what you're trying to imply, but we had a starting DT suspended for his senior season due to a failed drug test. So to say that we don't test our players is ridiculous.

NCAA testing is a joke...the tests that are pretty good are simply to expensive, you can take any steroid (except dbol) and get it out of your system within a week.

[JMUDukes]

Come on JMUDukes - you don't even want to join this argument - I have seen your Football team - you don't even want me to conduct a drug test...

...

I don't know what you're trying to imply, but we had a starting DT suspended for his senior season due to a failed drug test. So to say that we don't test our players is ridiculous.

I think hes saying in general....college football players use and thats a fact....and again I dont blame them haha

ok, but he mentioned JMU specifically, that is why I take offense.

[prototype]

JMU - I was just messing with you. I don't know much about JMU!

[RubberMallet]

I don't know much about JMU!

or steroids

[JMUDukes]

I don't know much about JMU!

or steroids

alright, i really need to turn my sarcasm meter in for repair.

[Ed Dantes]

I don't know much about JMU!

or steroids

Seriously... the last time I pointed out six flaws with someone's post was when that guy said Senator Jesse Helms was a hero, an inspiration , an ethical role-model, wasn't a segregationist, earned enough merit to have a school named after him, and a non-joke in 49 other states.

[Fumblerooskies]

This morning's NY Post sums it up best...

[prototype]

I don't know much about JMU!

or steroids

Seriously... the last time I pointed out six flaws with someone's post was when that guy said Senator Jesse Helms was a hero, an inspiration , an ethical role-model, wasn't a segregationist, earned enough merit to have a school named after him, and a non-joke in 49 other states.

Ed - don't get a head of yourself...I just didn't have time to reply...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#1) I'm sure lawyers for athletes such as Marion Jones, who just served six months in the can, would agree that athletes are getting steroids legally. I'm not sure anyone other than her lawyers would agree. Certainly a jury of Jones' peers didn't.

WRONG (Josh 1, Dantas 0) - Marion Jones - bad argument - Steroids ARE illegal in her sport and she got in trouble for lying to a grand jury -

WHITE PLAINS, New York (CNN) -- Olympic track star Marion Jones was sentenced in a federal court Friday to six months in prison, two years of probation and community service for lying to federal prosecutors investigating the use of performance-enhancing substances.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#2) It was a rule. It wasn't strictly enforced, but it was a rule. Further, A-Rod's doping came at a time when it was enforced (they said there would be consequences if enough athletes tested positive, and that threshold was met).

TIE (Josh 1-0-1, Dantas 0-1-1) - Your right, and your wrong here. In 1991 a memo was sent to all MLB teams that added steroids to the banned list, but the memo was very vague. 2003 was the first year they actually tested for Steroids and it was a SURVEY to find out, anonymously, how many players were using. It was not until 2005 that mandatory testing was put in place, thus in my opinion making Steroids against the rules.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#3) Kirk Radomski was a batboy. Players went to him because he could get them steroids. He was not a medical trainer. That's why he pled guilty to illegal steroid distribution. Wally Joyner said he got steroids once, from Ken Caminiti (who later died from a drug overdose). Caminiti isn't a doctor.

WRONG (Josh 2-0-1, Dantas 0-2-1) - You're missing the point here. Trainer, Bat Boy, Fellow Player, Gym Rat...It doesn't matter - it was something they could take to help give them an advantage and make them better at their jobs. If they wanted to risk their own health - them so be it. There are a lot of advantages out there now - that the olders layers didn't have, like better bats, better technology, better medicines, better surguries, are they cheating too? Some of the items that players are using, and were using, you can get from your local GMC store.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skipping Palmeiro rant - it's off the subject. Palmeiro had one of the nicest swings ever that was not produced from Steroids.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#5) I spoke with a pro sports VP about this issue, believe it or not. Sports is an important part of our culture, and athletes are looked at as role models. Kids want to emulate their heroes. Steroids is a deadly game, though. By shedding light on this, we are telling kids that drug use is bad, and that people who abuse it are going to be caught and penalized. Congress, in this instance, is looking out for the well-being of its citizens. That sounds like (and this is all according to the VP) and appropriate use of its funds.

WHAT!!! (Josh 2-0-1, Dantas 0-2-1, VP 1-0 (for making you believe that crap) - Are you serious??? I was a VP in professional sports and have many friends that are still working for teams. They want the government out of their private business. Steroids are really not that bad for you, if done in moderation, heck - Too many Tylenols can kill you. Truth is that you here of the very few cases over and over - and never here about the ways it has made people heather by increasing strength and helping to heal the body faster. Kids shouldn't do them because they are illegal, but I go back to my point - if a doctor prescribes them to help a pitcher heal his arm or a batter recover from a shoulder injury - then good for them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#6) MLB didn't release this "survey". Federal investigators, who were looking for a crime, did.

WRONG (Josh wins 3-0-1) - MLB said that the results would be destroyed after testing results were taken. They were not - they were shipped to two different offices. As an employer, if I took a drug test during the hiring process in confidence, and then it some how got out - not only would that information be inadmissible in court, I would be sued for millions.

[Schfourteenteen]

Prototype wrote in red
Therefore he wins

[prototype]

Thanks Fourteen! You can never go wrong with red.

[Fumblerooskies]

Watch SportsCenter tonight. I heard on the Tirico Show that A-Rod has an interview with Peter Gammons that will air tonight where he ADMITS to using. Here is the link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3894847

[olldflame]

About a 2 minute snippet of the Gammons/A-Rod interview was played on ESPN radio. He sounded flustered, admitted to using from 2001-2003, and apologized profusely, although just listening to it, not very convincingly (to me at least). His rationalization was that he had just signed the monster contract with Texas and felt a huge amount of pressure to perform. Kept saying "it was a totally different culture then". Says he knows now he didn't need it because he had just as good a year in 2007 drug-free.

[Ed Dantes]

I don't want to hit 'reply' to proto's last message because it would be rather interminable.

You are saying the players are getting the substances legally. So just answer me one question: why are the people who are supplying them getting arrested, tried, and convicted for illegal steroid distribution?

Or this one: Andy Pettitte admitted to taking HGH, which he obtained via a prescription that was written for his seriously-ill father. Explain to me why this should be permissible, and I will gladly concede the debate.

[Hold My Own]

I wish the media doesnt pile up on him....I mean this guy could become suicidal because of his need to be loved by everyone....but he didnt only use while he was in Texas...his body took dramatic changes when he moved from SS to 3rd as well...but thats when he was smarter about what he was taking and the only way if he would get in trouble from that is if the lab he was using leaked his name...b/c I can promise you it was something very similar to what the Olympic athletes are taking and cant be tested for

[Schfourteenteen]

Honestly no player should have that weight on his shoulders. The MLB sat on their hands while all this was going on. They took the revenue, made a huge rebound off the strike, and now they try to act like theyre fighting this scandal? Please. The focus needs to be off ARod and onto Selid and the other spineless jokes that make up the administrion of the MLB

[Kolzilla41]

4 days and I am so sick of hearing about this. Can't wait till the season begins

[Schfourteenteen]

4 days and I am so sick of hearing about this. Can't wait till the season begins

Thats the thing:

I love baseball. I can live through the Mets chocking every year, and still love them. I can wear my Mets hat in October, and I can watch basebal forever. But my overall excitement about April the past couple of years has greatly diminished. Not because of Steroids or the players taking them, but because the Admin, the Owners, and everyone in baseball did whatever it took to take my money, to make records, to get fans in the stands. Im ticked that no one respected the game for what it is: the American game. Thats just me being the purist that I am after listening to stories about the Yankees my great grandfather wrote about, but I dont care.