[Sly Fox]

Many of you were wondering why the site was down this morning for awhile. Well the facts are that we have grown to a place where operating as a free site are exceeding our threshold. And it is time for us to make some decisions about how we can keep this site operating into the future.

We have been an advertising-free site from our launch for two very big reasons:

• 1. The lack of income keeps us free from liability with the posts on our site. It doesn't give us a carte blache to say whatever we want but it does keep my name to which the site is registered free from some legal actions. Frankly if we began accepting advertising we would have to be tighter on our posting policy. Perhaps that is a good thing.
  
  2. We like having a clean look for the site. I think we all agree that it cheapens the site's experience to have it junked up with a bunch of advertising.

On the other hand, we are generating a great deal of traffic thanks to the continued growth of the site and the fact that we are the place to come to find out about breakout LU stars like Seth & Rashad. So it wouldn't be much of a challenge for us to cover our operating costs and perhaps collect some additional funds for special events if we were to begin collecting ad revenues.

But there is a way where we could keep our clean ad-free site and still handle the escalating costs associated with the site. We could begin taking donations from our members. This could be accomplished several different ways including a PayPal account that would go directly to cover the costs. We could offer site monthly sponsorships similar to what they have at AGS or we could possibly set an annual amount for posters that when exceeded could earn an annual donor badge. I could see a number of different ways to make this happen from within.

I have envisioned a front page for FlameFans for several years where we could offer original content. I've even had a couple of coaches mention to me that they'd love a way to post comments directly to the fan through the site. But in order for this to happen we need some help with setting up the page. This goes beyond the sphere of expertise for those of us running the site. If some of you would like to help us set up the page using Joomla or whatever then PM me directly.

We have an amazing community that is the envy of schools across the country. I get comments from other fans all the time asking how we have created such an active board. Well now it is time for us to put our collective minds together to find a way to make this work.

I want to hear your thoughts.

[TDDance234]

A donation/PayPal account would be the first step, I think.

I'd hate for current college students to have to stop posting because of a fee...and I would hate for the site to be littered with ads. I'd be willing to pitch in every month.

How much are we talking to keep this place running as is?

[jcmanson]

I agree 100% with TD.

[LUconn]

I figured this might be coming soon. Ads normally are pretty cluttered, although some sites are able to make them look acceptable. Donations are a good way to be able to contribute to the community. A couple of questions though: Can advertisers tell that their ads are being blocked by a browser or do they just look at page hits? Also, I know donations would probably be something along the lines of "whatever you can give", but really, what kind of costs are you looking to cover? I can't imagine that there are more than 15-20 people willing to pony up.

[Rooster Cogburn]

I think either way could work. However I actually think that ads if placed correctly can actually add to the professional look of the site. Ads on the web are now the norm, and if done right they can be fine. I think ads would provide sly the more stable support rather than the up and down of donations. If you went fee the membership would cut in half. If it goes donations I am fine with that, but I guess I don't understand the aversion to ads.

[SuperJon]

I would hope that the ads are local ads for businesses here instead of just the basic Google Ads. I think that would look best.

I would think if we did advertisements and donations we wouldn't have to charge too much for the ads and could make it look good. We're just trying to break even, not make money, right?

[Sly Fox]

Let me be clear, we have no plans to charge any fees. This would all be voluntary. We recognize that not everyone has the resources to donate on a tight budget. I was just discussing ways that we might be able to reward those who make a financial commitment to the site.

The money required to keep the site up and running right now is not astronomical. A core group of donors could make this happen without breaking the bank. But I didn't want to get into specifics until we had collectively decided what would be in the site's best interests.

And for the record, I have not been carrying the brunt of the costs for quite some time now. But I don't think it is fair that the person who is underwriting the costs should have to do so.

[HenryGale]

The biggest problem I would see with donations is that most would anty up initially, but it may be harder to keep collecting those donations over time.

Now...if we were to implement a fee per post policy...

[SuperJon]

Now...if we were to implement a fee per post policy...

I'd be gone.

[71FLAME]

While I would respect any decision you make, I like the donor supported model the best. FlameFans has been so much fun and I appreciate you keeping it going as long as you have. Can you tell us how much money is needed to keep the site growing?

[Hold My Own]

Donation wouldnt be a bad start Sly...if you have to add fees then add fees...I think it's pretty lame as many hours as we've all spent on here not willing to give back some....someone has already had to put in the hours in making this place happen and hosting fees up to this point so if we can put a few dollars in Schorcy's pocket and Sly's to at least cover the costs then do what needs to be done...



This might be the best way to weed out the Jonny come lately's...not that we need to or should...it would just be a fun experiment to see who ends up leaving

[jcmanson]

Fees should not happen. Ads before fees.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Fees should not happen. Ads before fees.

Agree

[SuperJon]

I hate message boards with fees. I'm sure we have enough people on here and those people know enough businesses that if we needed to go donations or ads we could get away with that. I'm living off a grad school budget but I'm sure at some point I could come up with $10 or something to add. It's not much, but if a few of the students could donate $10 to go along with the alums we should be fine.

[Rooster Cogburn]

There is a really cool Tanning Place that should be able to underwrite the whole thing.

[SuperJon]

I know you're just joking, but that's one of the things that's possible. AGS does monthly sponsorships. I don't know how much money we need, but if we split it 50% donations/50% ads Tan State could likely get a pretty inexpensive month long ad on here. I don't think they need the advertisement and it wouldn't be the best market to advertise to, but that's the way to sell it to people. Universal Tee's and High Peak would be two of the first places I went to. The Sundae Grill would be someone to go to and talk. Find the people associated with Liberty that would benefit from Liberty fans.

[Sly Fox]

For the record, none of us view FlameFans as a moneymaking venue. Any donations would be kept to cover costs and then augment the FlameFans experience. We could choose collectively how that might happen if we are fortunate to reach that point.

But I agree with HMO that for everything we get out of this site a token amount to cover the costs is not much to ask.

Should we choose to go the advertising route then a new discussion can begin on how we would want that to work. If we go with donations then we can further work on how that might function.

Frankly I am not quite sure what the answer is right now. But as the site continues to attract more traffic from both within our LU community and beyond, we need to do something sooner rather than later.

[LUconn]

He already said no fees. Fees restrict growth. I would never join a message board with a fee although I'd pay a fee to be on a message board that I was already a member of. So that would work initially but we'd never get any fresh blood. Ads are what most sites do. I would gladly click on them if they were instituted here.

What's the downside of ads? Just the aesthetics? Would it not make enough?

[TDDance234]

I guess there probably needs to be some kind of number. I wouldn't know even where to begin when you start to talk about what it costs to keep this puppy running. If we're talking 10-20 peope at $10 bucks a piece, I don't think it's a big deal to ask for donations. If we're talking anything more than that, I think ads are the only way to go and meet your goal consistantly each month.

I know how much time I killed on FlameFans in classes (and I know I'm not the only one) and just would hate for any reason for our current students to miss out because of it.

[Hold My Own]

He already said no fees. Fees restrict growth. I would never join a message board with a fee although I'd pay a fee to be on a message board that I was already a member of. So that would work initially but we'd never get any fresh blood. Ads are what most sites do. I would gladly click on them if they were instituted here.

What's the downside of ads? Just the aesthetics? Would it not make enough?

yeah I agree...I just think it's ridiculous for anyone who's been here a amount of time to say "If you impose fee's I'm leaving"



With all that said, donation then ad's...start a paypal donation thing now, while I have a balance or I may forget to do it for a while

[Rooster Cogburn]

yeah I agree...I just think it's ridiculous for anyone who's been here a amount of time to say "If you impose fee's I'm leaving"

Not as easy for some as it may be for you sir!

[SuperJon]

I didn't say if there were fees I'm leaving. I said if there were fees per post. It was a joke saying I post too much and couldn't afford it if we did it that way.

[Fumblerooskies]

I have no problem with either way.

Since it IS the new American Way...those of us with incomes can fund the site thru PayPal for those who are students or GA's with no income.

[Hold My Own]

yeah I agree...I just think it's ridiculous for anyone who's been here a amount of time to say "If you impose fee's I'm leaving"

Not as easy for some as it may be for you sir!

Come one this poor me stuff...it's $10 or so if they did...which they wouldnt

[Rooster Cogburn]

yeah I agree...I just think it's ridiculous for anyone who's been here a amount of time to say "If you impose fee's I'm leaving"

Not as easy for some as it may be for you sir!

Come one this poor me stuff...it's $10 or so if they did...which they wouldnt

I was not talking about me! You said it was :

ridiculous for anyone who's been here a amount of time to say "If you impose fee's I'm leaving"

There may be some who would have to do just that (Students or those out of work or whatever).