[RubberMallet]

you guys are high. wade like 4 years ago...sure....wade today? get out of here. and he has 1 ring because he had shaq. lebron had ilgauskas

my hate for lebron is probably blinding me to it, but lebron's history speaks for itself

history? this is the first team he's been on that has had players. even jordan needed his pippen. james is starting to take on the role of the leader on a team with other stars...finally. he doesn't have some of the fire i think that wade may have, but

[RubberMallet]

Who dropped 40+ in the must have game of thePacers series? Hmmm

lebron did when the were down 1-2.

Already addressed that. Game 6 was the clincher, game 4 was not.

a game 6? if they lost they played at home for a game 7? really? that was a more important win than possibly going down 1-3? yeeaah. obviously this is silly semantics but james is keeping these games out of them even being close to need last minute heroics. his numbers in these playoffs are video game numbers.

did you watch him last night?

[bradyfan]

you guys are high. wade like 4 years ago...sure....wade today? get out of here. and he has 1 ring because he had shaq. lebron had ilgauskas

my hate for lebron is probably blinding me to it, but lebron's history speaks for itself

history? this is the first team he's been on that has had players. even jordan needed his pippen. james is starting to take on the role of the leader on a team with other stars...finally. he doesn't have some of the fire i think that wade may have, but

+1.

Not sure why Haize thinks game 6 was a bigger game than game 4. If they lose game 4, they're down 1-3. Not to mention, everyone was doubting Miami at the time. People were talking about Indiana winning the series...please. Winning game 4 was the turning point of that series, and possibly the playoffs for Miami. Honestly, do you think Miami would be the same if Lebron was injured versus Bosh? Do you think they're still playing if Dwade can't show up for the first three games of a series? Pretend Wade is injured versus Bosh. Is Miami not playing because of Wade being injured? It's obvious that James is more important to Miami's success than Wade. I'd argue that if Miami doesn't win this year, you blow everything up and trade Wade. You've got everything but a really good PG.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Ibaka has been huge for OKC this year. He's averaging around 4.5 blocks per game. I can't stand Kendrick Perkins but he has games that give OKC an edge. He also creates match-up problems. I threw Harden in because he also has games that give OKC an edge.

All of the other players don't matter because every team in the NBA has those type of players. I can look to Charlotte and replace Chalmers, Fisher, Green, Neal, Splitter or Leonard. Just because they have a good game, doesn't mean they aren't irreplaceable. JJ Redick (one of my favorite players) scored 30+ in a game this season, does that mean he matters to Orlando? heck no. If they lose him, it's not like they can't pick someone else up on the free agents. Lebron, Wade, Garnett, Durant, Duncan...etc. are all players that teams can't go without. Take out Duncan and SA probably isn't in playoffs. If Lebron isn't playing for Miami, they aren't in semi-finals. These are players that matter. (See the 15mil salaries). The only reason SA is playing still is because of Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker. All of them are 30+. Every team has a Kawhi Leonard or Mario Chalmers, not every team has a Lebron or Ginobli. In the NBA you have 5 players on the court at once and most of the time, teams play at least 2 to 3 of those players more than 3/4 of the game. Additionally, those are the players getting the majority of touches. Wade and Lebron did all of the scoring for the Heat for a quarter basically. Kawhi Leonard isn't winning you an NBA championship. Don't think this is a star driven league? Which team left doesn't operate around 2 or 3 guys? 0 of them. Indiana plays team basketball and that's why they aren't playing anymore. Just because you are capable of having a big game doesn't mean you matter. Heck, anyone in the league can have a big game. I don't know of one player who played 3 or more seasons and didn't at least once score 15+. Does that mean they matter? Does that mean they were crucial to their teams success? No.

In reality, none of this really matters because the Heat are the only team that play offense and defense and don't have an age problem among their stars. No one else has that combination. Heat beat Celtics in five, maybe 6. OKC wins in 6, maybe 5 if they take this next game. Then Heat win in 6 against OKC.

Why did last year's Dallas squad, one of the oldest in the league featuring only one All-Star, beat a Heat team that had three All-Stars and was much, much younger? Age isn't an issue unless age is preventing guys from playing well. The Spurs obviously don't have that issue...

And please explain to me how Kendrick Perkins creates matchup problems? He is a complete non-factor on offense, an average rebounder, and a very good post defender. Every team playing right now has a player that can do at least that if not more...

And San Antonio doesn't play defense? Miami's postseason defensive efficiency is 93.5, meaning they give up 93.5 points per 100 possessions. Boston is 93.7, Philly 94.7, and Atlanta 95.0. San Antonio's is 95.6. Interestingly, all teams ranked ahead of SA are either Boston or have played Boston.

San Antonio held Utah to an offensive efficiency of 91.0, second worst mark in the playoffs and even a worse mark than the Charlotte Bobcats managed this season at 92.3. OKC sported a 47.6% effective field goal percentage in game one, that's one of their worst percentages of the season. OKC had a worse % than that only 10 times in the regular season. Interestingly, the Lakers fared quite well defensively in terms of effective FG%, they held OKC under that mark three times in the playoffs and two times in the regular season.

[bradyfan]

Ibaka has been huge for OKC this year. He's averaging around 4.5 blocks per game. I can't stand Kendrick Perkins but he has games that give OKC an edge. He also creates match-up problems. I threw Harden in because he also has games that give OKC an edge.

All of the other players don't matter because every team in the NBA has those type of players. I can look to Charlotte and replace Chalmers, Fisher, Green, Neal, Splitter or Leonard. Just because they have a good game, doesn't mean they aren't irreplaceable. JJ Redick (one of my favorite players) scored 30+ in a game this season, does that mean he matters to Orlando? heck no. If they lose him, it's not like they can't pick someone else up on the free agents. Lebron, Wade, Garnett, Durant, Duncan...etc. are all players that teams can't go without. Take out Duncan and SA probably isn't in playoffs. If Lebron isn't playing for Miami, they aren't in semi-finals. These are players that matter. (See the 15mil salaries). The only reason SA is playing still is because of Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker. All of them are 30+. Every team has a Kawhi Leonard or Mario Chalmers, not every team has a Lebron or Ginobli. In the NBA you have 5 players on the court at once and most of the time, teams play at least 2 to 3 of those players more than 3/4 of the game. Additionally, those are the players getting the majority of touches. Wade and Lebron did all of the scoring for the Heat for a quarter basically. Kawhi Leonard isn't winning you an NBA championship. Don't think this is a star driven league? Which team left doesn't operate around 2 or 3 guys? 0 of them. Indiana plays team basketball and that's why they aren't playing anymore. Just because you are capable of having a big game doesn't mean you matter. Heck, anyone in the league can have a big game. I don't know of one player who played 3 or more seasons and didn't at least once score 15+. Does that mean they matter? Does that mean they were crucial to their teams success? No.

In reality, none of this really matters because the Heat are the only team that play offense and defense and don't have an age problem among their stars. No one else has that combination. Heat beat Celtics in five, maybe 6. OKC wins in 6, maybe 5 if they take this next game. Then Heat win in 6 against OKC.

Why did last year's Dallas squad, one of the oldest in the league featuring only one All-Star, beat a Heat team that had three All-Stars and was much, much younger? Age isn't an issue unless age is preventing guys from playing well. The Spurs obviously don't have that issue...

And please explain to me how Kendrick Perkins creates matchup problems? He is a complete non-factor on offense, an average rebounder, and a very good post defender. Every team playing right now has a player that can do at least that if not more...

And San Antonio doesn't play defense? Miami's postseason defensive efficiency is 93.5, meaning they give up 93.5 points per 100 possessions. Boston is 93.7, Philly 94.7, and Atlanta 95.0. San Antonio's is 95.6. Interestingly, all teams ranked ahead of SA are either Boston or have played Boston.

San Antonio held Utah to an offensive efficiency of 91.0, second worst mark in the playoffs and even a worse mark than the Charlotte Bobcats managed this season at 92.3. OKC sported a 47.6% effective field goal percentage in game one, that's one of their worst percentages of the season. OKC had a worse % than that only 10 times in the regular season. Interestingly, the Lakers fared quite well defensively in terms of effective FG%, they held OKC under that mark three times in the playoffs and two times in the regular season.

The players on the Heat had never been together before last year and they got to finals. That should be enough to tell you just how talented they are. It was their first year together. Also, if Dirk wouldn't have played for Dallas, they would have never been there in the first place. You can't win unless you have stars. Dallas won last year because Miami had no answer for Dirk and they were just figuring each other out.

Perkins is long, plays great defense and does alot of non-statistical things for them that get them through games.

Miami has played the Knicks - one of the best scoring teams in the league. SA played Utah whose terrible, ha. Utah doesn't have a Melo or Stoudemire. Miami then had to play a very very physical Indiana team and rolled through all but two games, without one of their best players. SA faced "lob city." The Clippers are are one star team with a guy that can dunk. The competition isn't even comparable.

You are looking wayyy too much into stats. The Lakers can play defense but they have so many problems going on that it doesn't matter. My argument isn't that Miami plays defense. My argument is that Miami is great defensively, great offensively, physical and a great rebounding team and young. No one else has that combination. Not to mention, the chemistry between Wade and Lebron is becoming insane. OKC will take care of business against SA and it's going to be ugly. Winning one game, at your place means virtually nothing. (See Indiana's 3rd game against the Heat. How'd that work out?)

[thepostman]

you guys are high. wade like 4 years ago...sure....wade today? get out of here. and he has 1 ring because he had shaq. lebron had ilgauskas

my hate for lebron is probably blinding me to it, but lebron's history speaks for itself

history? this is the first team he's been on that has had players. even jordan needed his pippen. james is starting to take on the role of the leader on a team with other stars...finally. he doesn't have some of the fire i think that wade may have, but

Fair enough, but I won't believe it until I see it. If he does win it this year, which he won't, I will admit how wrong I was. He will win another conference championship but OKC and Spurs have much better overall teams.

[lynchburgwildcats]

The players on the Heat had never been together before last year and they got to finals. That should be enough to tell you just how talented they are. It was their first year together. Also, if Dirk wouldn't have played for Dallas, they would have never been there in the first place. You can't win unless you have stars. Dallas won last year because Miami had no answer for Dirk and they were just figuring each other out.

Perkins is long, plays great defense and does alot of non-statistical things for them that get them through games.

Miami has played the Knicks - one of the best scoring teams in the league. SA played Utah whose terrible, ha. Utah doesn't have a Melo or Stoudemire. Miami then had to play a very very physical Indiana team and rolled through all but two games, without one of their best players. SA faced "lob city." The Clippers are are one star team with a guy that can dunk. The competition isn't even comparable.

You are looking wayyy too much into stats. The Lakers can play defense but they have so many problems going on that it doesn't matter. My argument isn't that Miami plays defense. My argument is that Miami is great defensively, great offensively, physical and a great rebounding team and young. No one else has that combination. Not to mention, the chemistry between Wade and Lebron is becoming insane. OKC will take care of business against SA and it's going to be ugly. Winning one game, at your place means virtually nothing. (See Indiana's 3rd game against the Heat. How'd that work out?)

New York Knicks ranked 19th in the regular season in offensive efficiency. They were hardly a high caliber offensive team. Utah ranked 7th. Advatange Utah.

Indiana ranked 8th in offensive efficiency in the regular season, Clippers ranked 4th. Advantange Clippers.

The teams San Antonio faced are much more efficient than the teams Miami faced and it's not even close...

[bradyfan]

Dude, layoff the crack and the stats. Forget the stats for a moment and think of player by player match-ups and realize that teams don't give a rat's butt about the regular season. The highest seed hardly ever wins, translation, regular season means nothing. Furthermore, you bring up offensive efficiency but choose to forget everything I've stated. Utah has 0 stars and 0 defense. Facing Al Jefferson and Devin Harris versus Melo and Amare? Come on. SA was handed a series. The Clippers by the way ranked 14th in points per game and in defense. Indiana was 13th in points per game and 9th in defense. Utah's defense was 23rd while the Knicks was 11th. Advantages to NY and Indiana. Also, in points per game differential NY and Indiana beat the Clippers and Utah (Utah was terrible at just .7). Honestly, I think stats mean nothing, but since you brought them up...you're still wrong.

[Purple Haize]

Dallas also had a bench. Something Miami most certainly does not have.
I'm not saying LeBron is horrible. I mean I'm comparing him to Scottie Pippen, who I believe was named one of the 50 greatest players in the NBA.

[RubberMallet]

if you are comparing him to scottie pippen, i guess i have to ask if you've ever seen lebron james....well...um....play basketball.

[jcmanson]

Career stats:
Scottie Pippen 16.1 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 5.2 APG, 47.3 FG%, 32.6 3ptFG%, 70.4 FT%
Lebron James 27.6 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 6.9 APG, 48.3 FG%, 33.1 3ptFG%, 74.6 FT%

How again are they similar?

[jcmanson]

if you are comparing him to scottie pippen, i guess i have to ask if you've ever seen lebron james....well...um....play basketball.

[bradyfan]

Career stats:
Scottie Pippen 16.1 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 5.2 APG, 47.3 FG%, 32.6 3ptFG%, 70.4 FT%
Lebron James 27.6 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 6.9 APG, 48.3 FG%, 33.1 3ptFG%, 74.6 FT%

How again are they similar?

+1

[RubberMallet]

Career stats:
Scottie Pippen 16.1 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 5.2 APG, 47.3 FG%, 32.6 3ptFG%, 70.4 FT%
Lebron James 27.6 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 6.9 APG, 48.3 FG%, 33.1 3ptFG%, 74.6 FT%

How again are they similar?

pippen was a great facilitator and i do believe one of the best 50 players ever, but he could never take over a game when he was the #1 guy and he couldn't get to the rim like lebron could.

[BJWilliams]

my guess is he sees D-Wade as Jordan and LBJ as the second fiddle to him...that's just me speculating though

[bradyfan]

Remember that before Lebron came to Miami, he single handily led Cleveland to the finals. Pippen never did that to my knowledge.

[jcmanson]

Why does Lebron have to be compared to anyone? There is no comparison. You can say Magic, but Lebron is much more athletic and more of a scorer than Magic. You can say Michael, but Lebron can defend positions 1-4, Lebron is much bigger and more powerful than Michael, Lebron lacks the "clutch gene" (if you want to call it that) that Jordan had.

You don't have to compare Lebron to anyone. He's his own unique player. And will go down as a top 5 all-time player, ringless or not.

[Purple Haize]

Remember that before Lebron came to Miami, he single handily led Cleveland to the finals. Pippen never did that to my knowledge.

...and lost. Pippen just pouted. I believe they lost to the Knicks and the Magic who had a pretty good squad in Shaq Penny Nick Anderson Dennis Scott?
LeBron may go down in the top 50 easily but top 5? Not hardly
Pippen was a flash going to the hole with either hand, askill MJ commented he wished HE had. LeBron has difficulty going right ironically enough and finishing. I do see their games as very similar soo how is that bad? I do not see him as the second coming, that could be why!

[jcmanson]

LeBron may go down in the top 50 easily but top 5? Not hardly

And I'm done with this convo again. Too much foolishness. This is why I hate Skip Bayless. He has brainwashed so many people regarding Lebron.

[Purple Haize]

LeBron may go down in the top 50 easily but top 5? Not hardly

And I'm done with this convo again. Too much foolishness. This is why I hate Skip Bayless. He has brainwashed so many people regarding Lebron.

So who would your Top 5 be? Oh that's right you took your ball and went home.

[bradyfan]

Remember that before Lebron came to Miami, he single handily led Cleveland to the finals. Pippen never did that to my knowledge.

...and lost. Pippen just pouted. I believe they lost to the Knicks and the Magic who had a pretty good squad in Shaq Penny Nick Anderson Dennis Scott?
LeBron may go down in the top 50 easily but top 5? Not hardly
Pippen was a flash going to the hole with either hand, askill MJ commented he wished HE had. LeBron has difficulty going right ironically enough and finishing. I do see their games as very similar soo how is that bad? I do not see him as the second coming, that could be why!

Why would you blame Lebron for that loss? Are you keeping him out of your top 5 because he couldn't hit the last shot? Tons of players can't hit the last shot that are great and many terrible players can hit that shot. The idea that it's Lebron's fault for not winning a championship is laughable. He hasn't had help ever, until last year and they did fantastic for it being their first year together. Also, he's only 27. I don't think people realize all of the help MJ had compared to Lebron. Not to mention, MJ had the best coach is basketball history. Lebron had Mike Brown...seriously? There's no comparison there. I'm all for this being a stars league and everything but you have to have some help if you're going to win championships.

[bradyfan]

Why does Lebron have to be compared to anyone? There is no comparison. You can say Magic, but Lebron is much more athletic and more of a scorer than Magic. You can say Michael, but Lebron can defend positions 1-4, Lebron is much bigger and more powerful than Michael, Lebron lacks the "clutch gene" (if you want to call it that) that Jordan had.

You don't have to compare Lebron to anyone. He's his own unique player. And will go down as a top 5 all-time player, ringless or not.

+ a million.

[jcmanson]

Hard to keep it at 5:
Jordan
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Russell
Jabbar
Oscar
Lebron
Kobe

That's 9, and Lebron is what 26? 27? He belongs on that list, and give him 10 more years?!

[Purple Haize]

MJ had Doug Collins at the beginning of his career, who I would say IS a step up from Mike Brown. I would keep him out of my Top 5 All Time because he simply isnt one of the Top 5 greatest players of all time.
And your logic is faulty. If you are giving him the credit for getting to the Finals all by himself, then he should get the credit for losing the Finals. If you get credit for one you get credit for both.
As for being 27, much like Kobe, he is an 'old' 27 as are all early entrants.
Again, not sure how saying he isn't top 5 all-time is a bad thing.
As an aside, Dirk did pretty good last year as a 'One man show'

[Purple Haize]

Hard to keep it at 5:
Jordan
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Russell
Jabbar
Oscar
Lebron
Kobe

That's 9, and Lebron is what 26? 27? He belongs on that list, and give him 10 more years?!

So not even YOU put him as Top 5