[Eagle Ed]

I've always thought that we were a sleeping giant. No offense to the Big South ... but I've always thought we should be in a bigger conference - not just Division I-AA in football - but Division I-A all the way. (And, not just a football only conferecne, but a well-rounded conference). The Southern Conference or the A-10 may seem like a good fit, but my dreams are bigger than that even - as they are I-AA.

I'm envisioning our football program to take us to new heights. We've discussed on these very boards the distinct possibility of averaging over 15K, and then seeing our stadium more than double --- to the 30K - 34K range for Division I football. Let's just say that takes 3-4 years and maybe 1 or 2 more to expand. Is it against the rules here to dream out loud abaout 2011, 2012, or so?

Here's what I'm seeing. By then (2011-2012) LU will be well on its way to 25K on campus. We all know Dr. Falwell's dream about that. We also all know about his dream for Division I-A football. I'm seeing LU linking up with several Mid-Atlantic schools with Division I-A football stadiums and whole-hearted Division I-A mindsets. I can easily come up with a league of 6-7 such schools - spread across the Mid-Atlantic area. I can also see another 4-5 schools expanding and taking the expensive leap into Division I-A football.

I know it is just a dream right now, but I can see this happening. I'd like to see this develop into something special. Here's my list and thoughts (and I've mentioned some of the roadtrip cities because destinations is a huge part of being in a really good conference)...

(Disclaimer right here: Of course ALL of these schools are Division I-A in everything except football. That's a given to such a sports-oriented, educated board as this. Obviously I'm talking about making that expensive jump from I-AA to I-A in football and thereby being a total Division I-A conference, i.e. ACC, SEC, Big 10, etc...)

Okay ... with that cleared up, here's my listing of such schools that COULD be talked into starting something fresh (all Division I-A in every sport).

Liberty U --- 34K, 35K stadium rocks on Saturdays

Navy --- I-A now. They seat 34K right now, and average about 33K. They can still play Army. This would be a cool rival as they take sports very seriously. Annapolis is pretty and we could hit Baltimore on the trip every other year -- the Inner Harbor / Orioles / Ravens would make this a great trip (and/or Washington, DC, too).

Army --- I-A now. Well you just can't separate them from Navy. They seat 38K and average about 31K right now. Long trip, but certainly an interesting one and you know the opponent is always going to be a passionate rival. Imagine the recruiting advantage of saying that we go to NYC every other year to visit on the way to West Point.

Marshall --- I-A now. West Virginia's second most popular school. they seat 38K and averaged over 26K this past year. Not a long road trip -- and great if you like mountains (and I do). The school of Chad Pennington and Randy Moss -- really good football.

Temple --- I-A now. See, I like this one. They are in Philadelphia, share the Eagles 69K stadium, and love their sports. They've always been mis-matched in Divison I conferences (except for basketball where they always shine) forever -- and they always seem like they want to break out on their own (as there are 5 big schools in Philly). They would bring a huge TV market and would make a great road trip... and they'd be competitive.

Middle Tennessee State -- I-A now. Okay, they are right outside of Nashville - and next to UT, they are the biggest school in the state (much larger than Vandy). They seat 31K now -- and are aggressively growing athletically-speaking. They are definitely an up and coming program - and one stuck in a dud of a conference right now (Division I-A Sunbelt). And just think - Nashville is another awesome road trip.

Now that is six -- we know that is enough to get started, but I can see more teams joining.

News from Charlotte, NC is that UNCC (excuse me, they go by "Charlotte" now) is itching to finally launch a football program. The old downtown stadium only seats about 20-25K (which translates in to I-AA) ... so that would either take a major expansion... OR ... they could do a Philadelphia Eagles-type deal and play in the Panthers 72K digs. Charlotte would be an amazing rival. I'm hoping their vision is Division I-A football. The road trip is great, their other programs are always good (basketball and baseball are really exceptional).

I think U. of Delaware is right around the corner to becoming something bigger. They already seat 22K ... and the WHOLE state does not have a Division I-A FOOTBALL program (okay, all three counties do not)... Anyway, Delaware is THE state university -- and a major sleeping (well, not a giant - but a grand school who needs to step up to the bigtime). Can you see our Eagle's talons going up against the Blue Hen's claws?

Another school that I see jumping to Division I-A football is Appalachian State University. They've won back-to-back I-AA national championships and are favored to win it again this year. They only seat 16,650 -- but averaged almost 21K this past year in their great stadium they call "The Rock". Football is huge to them... and I can easily see them expanding again and jumping to Division I-A. They'd be perfect rivals - and Boone, NC is a great place to visit.

A sleeper would be The Citadel. This is another military school that loves their sports - particularly football. Charleston, SC is an awesome city, with great sites, history, and food. They play in a 21K stadium now -- and the thought of joining Navy and Army should excite them to no end. I'm seeing a South Carolina school in this conference... and they are the best candidate. Furman and Wofford would be next, but to me - they are happy being I-AA.

Sadly, VMI is not going to ever be Division I-A in football either. They seat 10K. Its a shame and I wish they'd explode to bigger things... but I don't see it.

I would also challenge either I-AA stalwarts such as Richmond, William & Mary, and/or James Madison to step up to the plate and go big-time in football. Richmond makes the most sense -- as they alreay seat 22,000. I know the enrollment is small, but the city is huge -- and they simply always get stuck in unimaginative, dull conferences. There is nothing for the city / school to get excited about presently. But to see themselves like a Charlotte -- well, maybe that very well could do the trick. For that matter Chattanooga is a thought. The city is very large - and the stadium seats about 21K now. If you've never visited there, you are in for a treat. The sites are unreal (caverns, Rock City, Civil War battlefields, etc.). They could be a Charlotte or a Richmond and just decide to make the jump.

Finally - there's East Carolina University, a well established Division I-A football school. ECU seats 43K and averaged over 37K last year. They are football crazy -- rabid actually. The drive is long and the city (Greenville, NC) isn't spectacular -- but the barbeque is outstanding and the football atmosphere is great. I held off on suggesting them because I always think that they want to start a conference with WVU, Lousiville, Pitt, Cincy, Memphis, etc. But, you never know. The thought of playing NC schools like Charlotte and App State may intrigue them. They are kinda lost in an ACC fantasy that's NEVER going to happen. They'd be a great opponent and would bring a lot to the conference.

In closing - I'd suggest calling this conference something like the ECC. The East Coast Conference ... or the Eastern Collegiate Conference. (There's been similar names before, I know, but not now). Maybe the Eastern Seaboard Conference.

Anyway ... is this crazy to talk about? Is it disrespectful to the Big South to whisper out loud? Is it a slap in the face to the Southern Conference or the Atlantic 10 -- you know, to jump over their I-AA-ness and think about a Division I-A all-sports conference?

Hmmmmm............

[SuperJon]

We're Division I now.

[flamesfilmguy]

captain obvious strikes again!

[Fumblerooskies]

We're Division I now.

He means REAL division I....we're I-AA.

[bigsmooth]

cmon SJ, was that really needed?? welcome eagle ed. we have long discussed this topic on this board. some interesting thoughts on army, navy, and delaware. temple is joining the MAC, and i just can't see how they will succeed there but who knows. it will be interesting when we finally do jump on if we will be an independent for awhile or if we can hook up with a conference.

[Stevev]

Very nicely written and there is nothing wrong with setting high expectations! I thought that playing and competing agains't teams like those mentioned in the article is easier said than done. It takes money and a committment from administration to make it happen and we are showing some of that now. I thought that all this was possible in the early 90's and was talked about often but never panned out and maybe too good to be true due to the poor financial shape we were in. First we need to beat up on the scrub teams like Gardner Webb and Chuck South then worry about the likes of Marshall, Navy, ECU, and Middle Tennessee, and such.

[PAmedic]

I actually have to take SJ's side on this one.

(Welcome, EAGLE ED- anything w/ EAGLES in it is good enough for me, and nice Big 5/Temple refs too!)

I see his points, and we've LONG talked about expansion into FBS football. One issue is that rarely do good conferences have football ONLY members, so you'd have to draw the other teams mentioned OUT of their established conferences. That may be attractive from a football standpoint, but not for their other sports- which do FINE now. I'd be more interested in starting/joining a VA FBS conf w/ JMU, ODU, W&M, etc. (as much as I like the idea of roadies to Lehigh, 'Nova, Temple or Rutgers)

the BIGGEST issue with EAGLE's post (this is where Jon is right) is that we ARE DIVISION I. So is VMI. I dare you to go to Boone and congratulate them on their Division II championship

Another school that I see jumping to Division I is Appalachian State. They've won back-to-back Division II national championships and are favored to win it again this year.

Same goes for these two schools:

Furman and Wofford would be next, but to me - they are happy being Divison II.

good way to get one's head taken off by their boosters!

Its NOT just a matter of semantics- you can't have a in depth discussion of how to expand if we're not all on the same page here. We ARE DIVISION I in ALL SPORTS. RIGHT NOW. TODAY.

that may change the whole dynamic of the concept- because hoops, baseball and every OTHER sport may not WANT to travel to Philly to play Temple every year.

I like ED's thinking though- we just need to clarify that very impotant concept.

[bigsmooth]

steve, gardner-webb is hardly a scrub team and CSU has really improved. just remember, we were a "scrub" team just two years ago.

[PAmedic]

SMOOTIE- did my post make any sense?

I guess what I was trying to say is- I agree with the vision - the terminology IS important because using it incorrectly changes the meaning of what we are trying to do.

If we were trying to transition from DII to DI it would be an entirely different ballgame.

If we are talking about a FBS Football membership conf ONLY, it is different.

If we are talking about a NEW D I conference, which is regional, and INCLUDES FBS football, that too is different.

any better?

[JDUB]

i think everyone has big hopes for the football program, including the athletic staff. I can guarantee you that the athletic staff thinks about this too and will grow the program as fast as is possible. jeff barber and rocco are great guys, and they understand Jerry Falwell's dream to one day compete against Notre Dame. They will be trying to fulfill this dream over the next few years. i can't wait to see what happens in the next few years with LU football

[bigsmooth]

im not a jack*** medic. you guys are so caught up in terminology. if you did not realize what ed was saying i have to believe you are blind. you had to realize his point. i don't care whose side you take, because it is not about sides. FBS, FCS, DI, I-AA. He was just dreaming, and i think we can do without a smart answer whether it was intended to be or not. i think the folks in boone are still calling it I-AA and they all know as most do in the collegiate football world what I-AA is.

[Stevev]

I still call it 1AA since I have been doing it for so long and not willing to change.


Personally I would be happy to beat teams like JMU, Delaware, William and Mary, Richmond, Furman, and App State on a regular basis or at least competing favorably with them than to dream and expect us to go 1A and compete. I was hoping for LU to go the route of Central Florida, South Florida, or Troy State but maybe that is beyond the relm of possibility due to our resources or lack thereof.

[SuperJon]

cmon SJ, was that really needed??

Yes it was because it's a smack in the face to everyone who's ever worked with football or been on the team to call us Division II. We are a Division I program right now. You may think it's no big deal, but to some people, it is.

[bigsmooth]

a smack in the face??? you guys take one small comment as a smack in the face?? that is way extreme. this is not worth getting into.

[TIMSCAR20]

I have to agree with Medic and SJ on this one. Although a smart alec reply is not needed, I definitely see their point. It is one thing to mix up 1A and 1 AA but to call all of those teams division II is insulting. I know it wasn't intended to be insulting as it sounds like our boy Ed is a Philly guy (which automatically makes him a close ally of mine and Medic) but also a passionate dreamer with a well thought out vision. His choice of words was unfortunate but no need to fry the guy. I agree with SJ in the sense that it is a slap in the face to constantly have to answer if Liberty is division 1 which I do and have done yearly in work places for 16 years now. People look at me and ask did I play football and I say no but I played basketball at Liberty. Oh, is that a division III? NO WE ARE DIVISION I and WE WERE DIVISION ONE WHEN I PLAYED, is usually my response. I think it is important to see ourselves as what we are and keep perspective but is equally important not to belittle where we are and think less of ourselves and letting being called division II go is not acceptable. Again, a simple correction is all that is necessary, no need to get testy.

[PAmedic]

no, its really not!

SMOOTH- I was actually laughing at ME because in an effort to explain why I felt it was important that ED understood we ARE DI (and so is VMI/APP) , I think I confused everyone (including ME) with my clear-as-mud post.

I knew YOU would get it- was hoping you could explain my bassackwards way of thinking to the rest of these guys

no big deal though- you're right

and ED, if you DID know that we are DI already, I apologize. was basically trying to say we've already made the transition you were talking about- but agree that we should go up the last level in FB

[Rocketfan]

Is it me or are we being harder on each other because we can't find a coach we don't like now.....its interesting to see how the tide has turned in all forums in the last few weeks.....

[PAmedic]

nah- its just summer and we're bored and lazy.

that and these stupid message boards turn a misunderstanding over grammar or syntax into a screaming hissy fit.

my post to SMOOTHIE was a plea for help (he knows how my wacky brain works) and just came out wrong. He knows I love him

[Stevev]

You are correct in that assessment. I guess we have to watch what we say around here when comparing now to several weeks ago with some of these coaching changes. No reason to not like a coach without giving him a chance to straighten things up and starting to show positive results.

[PAmedic]

why STEVE, you're positively GLOWING w/ optimism!

whoo hoo!

Phils win! Phils win!

[ATrain]

Medic, you just made my sig

[Eagle Ed]

EE checking in. In a nutshell, here's a couple of points:

1) Obviously, I was tlaking about I-A as opposed to I-AA. But ... my bad, I actually wrote that App State was Division II ! If I were an ASU grad, i probably would have tuned everything else out and focused on that mis-speak. Anyway, I just went back and modified all Division I references to Division I-A ... and made sure that all Division I-AA references were recorded as I-AA.

2) I wrote this last night at midnight... slip-ups happen. THAT's my story and I'm sticking to it.


Anyway, how about an all Division I-A conference that spreads from mid-Tennessee to Charleston, SC - NC - VA - WV, and then to Philly, Baltimore (Annapolis), and even a little upper NY? All similarly football stadium sized ... (no use pretending that football does not drive the athletic department's wagon. Football affiliations come first, then basketball and the rest filter in).

But wouldn't that be a dynamite conference? Really, none of these schools are going to take the place of an ACC or SEC school, but I think these schools could really find their niche. Great road trips.

[TDDance234]

The whole idea of 25k on campus may be something we need to put to rest. We're going to have just around 10k on campus this year, so we would need to grow 15k in the next 5 years to hit 25k. That's an extremely LOFTY goal.

The problem is, with growth of enrollment comes the need for more housing, more parking, more buildings. We don't have the money for that now, if we did then the circle would have been replaced years ago. The only way we go big time is if someone gives us a heft donation to build a new football stadium that can hold a large amount of people. Talent wise I think we're headed in the right direction but we're not anywhere close, IMO.

Maybe I'm just peeing in someones cornflakes here but I think a jump to big time D1 football at this point isn't worth laboring for. Let's talk again in 5 years, minimum.

[SuperJon]

Yes sir. Someone else came to my side.

[Sly Fox]

I agree that we all seem a tad contentious lately. I for one appreciate Eagle Ed bringing back a topic that is near and dear to my heart.

While I would find it difficult for us to wind up in a league exactly as stated, the basic concept is something that is attainable. If you think I am going to rehash my visions for a new regional FBS/I-A league I don't think it is necessary. But suffice it to say I see several viable candidates to join us along with some other I-AAs making the step up to form a practical & cost-effective league.

Thanks for diving right in, Eagle Ed. Don't let the nitpicking over the classification titles bring you down. I love having more folks with visions of grandeur on the site.