[bigsmooth]

sorry you are having a bad day judge, but you did not answer the question. i think a lot of people who get on this site want to know the deal about our pitching staff, and you seem like you are in the know.

[The Judge]

Our pitching staff and defense has been weak. They both are not good enough to get out of the Big South. Pitching and defense fellas wins. The underlying sentiment is that MR is at fault for the staffs inability to finish big games. That is where some discernment is needed. I won't speak for Matt although I will say that it is no secret our depth in quality is at the heart of the problem. That is recruiting and development. The buck stops with Matt and he is a big enough man to " man up " on that ! What I find really curious is the " only if we had Randy " mantra going on on this thread. I mean he was the pitching coach the last 5 years and prior right up to when he left in January. So he bears no responsibility at all ? Not even a little ? Don't get me arong...Randy knows what he is doing. Its quality recruits ! I think our guys have played above their talent level especially in the pitching area these last two seasons. It didn't help to have the Auburn kid and Beakler out either in terms of quality depth. It is not tired arms..it is quality arms. From what I have seen on the thread and what I hear...Ryan Page wants everyone to know he's a starter not a reliever. Most mid week guys who want to be weekend starters earn their stripes as relievers first. So clue phone....Is the reason he gave up back to back bombs in critical situations because coach had him as a reliever not a starter ? Please !!!!!! Time for Mr. Page to grow up and look himself in the mirror and not make excuses ! That kind of talk, attitude, me first crap gets you cut, released, reduced at almost any other D-1 program. At the end of the day, in my opinion the guys have achieved far above where they could have talent wise. It caught up to them at Coastal. They played their hearts all season and are to be commended. But it doesn't change the facts that we have a very few guys that can't pitch at this level acting as though the coach threw the ball that got crushed ! Hows that for high and tight !! ?? I think I feel better !! To win the Big South...excuses have to stop !

[SuperJon]

To win the Big South, relievers have to stop being sent to warm up in the 4th inning and not being used until the 8th. They're warming up for 4 innings and the coach doesn't consider that to be tiring on the arm. He only considers them throwing one inning instead of the five that they really threw. If they don't come in the game, he doesn't even take into consideration he wore them down in the bullpen throwing because they didn't get in any innings in the game. Throwing 95 pitches in four innings in a player's first appearance of the year can damage an arm for the entire season. Also, when you don't have someone working with the players' mechanics and making sure they're doing the right things, arm angles start to slip a little, and little things happen that build up. That's the biggest problem with Tomlin gone. No one's saying if Tomlin was here the pitchers wouldn't be tired because Royer does what he wants in terms of who pitches how long, but at least their mechanics would be right.

[bigsmooth]

thanks for the insight judge...i appreciate it. i will say that this thread brought up nothing about tomlin other than rooskie asking an honest question. im sure some are wanting to take shots at royer, but he is the head coach, and as you said the buck stops with him.

[Fumblerooskies]

Thanks for a nice explanation. When I brought Tomlin into the discussion, my thoughts are more about working with the pitchers on their MENTAL APPROACH. That is important. There is no one on the staff who has the background as a pitcher...and my GUESS is that the pitchers might be missing that...again, in terms of the mental approach to pitching.

[sitemdown77]

WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! I was just making a statement half in jest there. In no way did I actaully mean to actaully sit them for two weeks, come on!!! That statement was not meant literally one bit. The depth is not there correct, so guys have been used frequently and it has built up over the season. I was hoping that comment would be understood by the people on this board, but I guess not. I aplogize and own up to not being direct enough with my words Judge.

[sitemdown77]

I don't know about that comment about far exceeding their talent Judge. This team is thought of as probably the best team talent wise besides UVA in Virginia, as well as the pitching staff is thought of very very highly as well with very high quality arms. I'm not saying that it is as deep as it should be in a tough Big South Conference. Six or Seven of our guys would be front line guys in almost every team in VA.

[The Judge]

If you were tongue and cheek Sitem...I apollogize openly. But these guys are not overused. Royer had to tell John and Umberger to sit downbecause he wouldn't risk their arms. I respectfully disagree that this group is exceptionally talented. It has big heart as demonstrated at Coastal. But the errors and blown leads speaks for itself. And Matt would agree with that statement in my opinion.

[sitemdown77]

Just letting you know what the feeling is around other teams in VA Judge. Guys think that group of hitters is exceptional and the arms are extremely good.

[knobodywest]

proto, What is your hang-up with coach tomlin? Must you always be reminded? I believe if you do some homework you would know that Garrett Young, Patrick Galliard, The Liberty Pitching staff, Errol Hollinger, are all stellar recruits of Randy Tomlin. Are you questioning Tomlins ability to recruit, or Royers ability to coach good players? Tomlin left Royer with a healthy ready to go pitching staff, I guess that does not seem to be the case now. Then we are left with only one conclusion! I guarantee you proto that it won't be Randy Tomlin looking for a job at the end of the season, and I bet He gets a contract too!
It never fails so it seems on here, the minute proto gets on with his Save Matt Royer song, things get started again. I said it my very first post Liberty's loss has been the Washington Nationals gain. You can read that on the Potomac Nationals web-site or see it in Baseball America under orginizational reports. Proto just take a look at it, and get off Tomlins back, He was a great coach for us. I'm sorry that we don't say the same about Royer. We lost a great coach when Randy left.
rumor has it Bream Guetterman "08" whatcha know about that Judge?

[Hold My Own]

anything under a 5.00 ERA is an stellar year for any freshman pitcher. Vaden has only thrown 10 innings this year and is sitting about 3.38.

He just started to get innings...as of 2 weeks ago I think he threw to something like 2 batters, thats what his innings are down as well

[The Judge]

Can't make any solid judgements based on ERA especially when they are first year guys.

[knobodywest]

judge, you dodged the question. Randy Tomlin spent 5 years under Dave Pastors regime, I think they won two Big South Tournies. Did he change his recruiting philosphy? NO, He has always recruited the same, bringing in quailty kids with div 1 abilitiy. The last 5 years have been spent with Royer, who makes all the pitching decisions through out the game. Lets bring the heat now. Are you suggesting that it is Randy Tomlins fault that we don't have quailty arms? SJ nailed when he described the life of a pitcher under Matt Royer. It is not that Tomlin did not develope strong arms or bring in quailty guys, if that were the case then why do pitchers get drafted off the team each year. The problem is the Royer chooses to be a one man show, takes control of everything and burns his pitchers arms out each year by tourny time. That should answer everyone questions. SJ nailed it when he correctly described the life of a pitcher on any day at any game under Matt Royer. Go warm up for three or four stinking innings and then come in and try to pitch. If you would go to the games, or even Big South last year, you would no that it is not an exageration but the truth. Now if the arms were not worn down by this point, could we then say that Randy Tomlin did a great job getting the staff ready for the season? No you would give Matt Royer the credit . The guys arms are not worn down because of lack of work in the off season, its because of to much work in the beginning of the season, and it may not be game situation work, but what SJ described. He either leaves them in the game to long or in the bull pen to long. Anyway you dodged the Bream Guetterman question, a man of your expertise surely must have some insight into this, being how good of friends you are with those fellas.

[SuperJon]

My only question is why didn't we rest our top guys two weeks ago when we were playing nonconference games? The only games that matter at this point in the season to a team like us is conference games. We left them out their too long against these non-conference teams and that's extra innings put on their arms when we could've used them in games that meant something. Throw a bullpen on the side to stay in shape, but the reason you play non-conference games this late in the season is two-fold: to make a case for an at-large birth if you're borderline, or to rest your starters if you have to win your conference to make the post-season. We're in the second category, yet we seem to never rest our guys.

[TruthSlayer11]

SJ, I was just about to post that but you beat me. I remember someone saying that 2 weeks ago. It's a little late now.

[Fumblerooskies]

I admit to questioning why, when everyone was talking about Solbach, et al, needing rest, that we did not do it in those non conference games...

Now...I am going to get on a soap box, here, as I personally feel this thread has crossed a line. It is one thing to speculate about a coach's fate, as was done in basketball season...and to speculate about replacements once said coach has not been retained...
...but to speculate on replacements (especially saying that they are waiting in the wings) before the season ends and the coach is still under contract, borders on irresponsibility. Any of the LU coaches deserve better than that.
(off soap box)

[Hold My Own]

I agree, if you want to disagree with the way pitchers are used that's one thing but we're talkin about people with family's so even if you dont agree or like a coach it really doesnt matter...keep it clean and keep it to the game

[Fumblerooskies]

Remember, gang, that...

[PAmedic]

I knew this was going to start, surprised it took so long.

hold on guys- only 3 weeks to go

[knobodywest]

good point, point taken. Did not mean to suggest that anyone was waiting in the wings. Just another rumor!

[HenryGale]

Now...I am going to get on a soap box

At least getting on the soap box will allow you to see over the podium...

But your point is very well made!

[Fumblerooskies]

[HenryGale]

[Fumblerooskies]

[bigsmooth]

rooskie is right and im sure knowbody meant nothing by it. it is a well known rumor, but we should let it be for now.