[thepostman]

By popular demand (one person) I have have started this thread

I am not going to make this long, and really I am not sure if its worth talking about or not because there is nothing you or I can do about it...but it is the LU/TRBC connection

TRBC opened this summer bringing Jerry's dream of connecting all of the different ministries on one campus....he believes this is what God wanted and its really hard to argue since LU has come a long, long way in a short amount of time...

Sometimes though its not so easy to overlook this....on this property we have LU/TRBC/LCA....all together....when this first was starting we were told that we would hardly ever see LCA students it would be almost completely separate...but everytime I am in north campus and walking by the track...there are LCA students and ELC students everywhere....slowing ruining a track that cost around a million dollars....

Of course there is the fact that high school girls seem to be looking older and older these days and that in of itself could cause issues...

I didn't really want to start this thread and I have no idea where I am going with it....so I guess I will end with this question for discussion....Does the fact that LU shares a campus with TRBC and LCA take away from Liberty both money wise and upkeep of current facilities?? Is there an ongoing effort to keep TRBC/LCA/LU more seperate...or are they happy with how things are?? Does anybody have ideas to make things better?? Or do you guys just think I am an idiot?? (That is of course not a real option ) haha

alright....well I don't know if this will serve for any purpose...but it could make for good conversation I suppose...

[LUconn]

I always thought it would be a mistake when I was a student. The thought of LCAers running around campus made me cringe. But now that I don't go there and never had to put up with it, I don't see what the problem is. Maybe I've lost touch with the students. How are they ruining the track? Just by being on it? I think the whole connection benefits LCA more than it does LU.

[thepostman]

well, the track thing isn't the fact that they are using it...but its overuse...much like how the Vines Center has fallen apart so fast...overuse....I know if I put a million dollars into a track I wouldn't want little kids running around and throwing up on the track

and the LCA students a terrible idea....its going to cause problems down the road with LU guys and LCA girls....girls are looking older these days and if it wasn't for the fact they they where LCA polo shirts I would have no idea some of them were even in high school still

I think I would actually be ok with TRBC here...the biggest thing for me is LCA/ELC....but like I said can't really do anything about it now, what done is done...I am just curious what others thing...maybe there is more info that I do not know about that would make more sense of everything...who knows

[Libertine]

I see your concerns, Postie, but they don't necessarily correlate to realistic logic. If an LU guy gets in trouble with an LCA girl, then it's those kids' fault and you can't blame TRBC/LCA/LU for being so close to each other. That would be like somebody going to Six Flags and then blaming the park b/c they lost a limb when they stood up on the ride.

As far as Vines goes, I don't think the Vines problem is overuse but rather under-maintenance and simple age. The facilities here (Vines and the track included) are meant to be used. Otherwise, they're just really expensive trophy pieces.

[JDUB]

yeah, i've already met two LCA girls i thought went to liberty.... i was like, NO i'm gonna go to jail!!!!

[ATrain]

I just don't like the fact that LCA students have access to things like the LaHaye Student Center...most peeps in college don't want to be around high schoolers and their "issues."

[Libertine]

Then again, what do I know? They all look like 12-year olds to me. And that's the LU kids.

[thepostman]

Of course is something does happen its not LU's fault....I am not for putting blame on other people...if something happens those kids are idiots and deserve to be in trouble...but why put people in that position?? That is just my point

I just hope they maintain the track much better then they have with the Vines....the Vines is a concrete dump....and its hard for me to believe it was ever nice....then i see pictures and it DID look nice...

Like I said we can't change things...and I don't want to seem like I am one of these people that complains about every little thing Liberty does wrong or whatever...I do like Liberty and am glad I chose Liberty....but there is always things you don't like about things even if you do like the place you are at....

[LUconn]

why is everybody always hating on the vines? I think it's nice. The seats are kinda cheap (or missing), but other than that it just looks used. A few water stains from leaks here and there. It's just not a brand new building. Maybe that's just me.

[Libertine]

Actually, I think you've got it, LUConn. The Vines doesn't actually look bad, it just looks like a building that hasn't had much changed in 15+ years. It doesn't look modern anymore and it doesn't look old-school. It's just, well, Vines-looking.

[PAmedic]

why is everybody always hating on the vines? I think it's nice. The seats are kinda cheap (or missing), but other than that it just looks used. A few water stains from leaks here and there. It's just not a brand new building. Maybe that's just me.

you have finally come over to the dark side (Where's AG when we need him? I hope he ghosts on here and at least gets to appreciate the mention)

Basically: old hags love everything the way we think it was- in our dusty memories- and hate any change whatsoever. Unless it directly benefits us.

congratulations. you're in the club

[PAmedic]

remember though- I'm the guy who watched as the ravine was being filled in, as my precious log steps were forever lost to the ravages of a CAT dozer- never actually set foot in the building until 2005.

Imagine my surprise that fall as I walked in, looked around in amazement at the "NEW" gym (as compared to Liberty Gym) and then heard the current students moan about how "OLD" it was and ask when it will be imploded for a new one.

[TallyW]

I'm laughing at myself... but Is the revine really filled in? Are the steps really gone? What'd they do back there? This is too funny if I honestly missed that one... I'm at that campus at least every 4-6 months (my wife's family lives there and I have a cousin and friends who still live there) Medic... is it true?

[PAmedic]

I suppose so - there appears to be an arena in its place.

[TallyW]

Ohh... You're REALLY old.... LOL... I used the stairs BEHIND the Vines... that's what I thought you were referring to. There must have been some ancient staircase I don't know about...

[SumItUp]

I graduated from both LCA and LU. My experiences at both places were great, however, very different. I visited LCA one year ago and was impressed with the facility, however, I had my reservations about the close proximity to LU. Obviously, what's done is done and I do not see any reason why they would separate it in the future. Actually, I do not know a reason why it should be separated, it just seems weird. When you are in college, high school seems like it was a long time ago. For some of us, college seems like it was a long time ago. While I was in high school, I enjoyed visiting LU to watch the sporting events and had the feeling of being an "insider" because of the association with LCA. Basically, it is just something that is very different from any other campuses (maybe a few others are out there) across the country. However, if JF's vision was inspired by God, then by all means, it is where it needs to be.

Concerning the facilities such as the track, there is no reason that they should not be used by all.

[TallyW]

I'm kinda in the "It's a moot point" camp.

It has been a stated vision of the Doc since basically the founding of LCA Long ago.... It was never a shock to anyone... and it fulfills a vision Dr. Falwell shared years ago. It's a non issue over what people think about it... the reality is that its mainly just our perceptions that are an issue...

For anyone who would gripe about facilities, a brief history lesson is in order.... Put simply.. if it wasn't for the members and facilities of TRBC, there would be no LU. If we chose LU, we married the whole package, warts and all. If you're married you completely get that... if you're single you'd better get that or you'll always be single.

[4everfsu]

I hate to break it to you, but take it from an old timer. LBC and LCA have always been together from the beginning, sharing all the facilities from the start. LBC had all its classes at TRBC from the start and LCA was there on the same location. So basically get over it, it is no big deal. We shared the same basketball court at TRBC, showers, etc.

[mrich]

My point of view is that if you are paying $20,000 plus for tuition, you shouldn't have to compete with high schoolers.

[SuperJon]

No offense, but things in 72 were a lot different than they are now.


I understand completely with what he's saying about the LU guys and LCA girls. I just don't think it's a good situation to have the two groups that close.


I don't have a problem with where LCA has their school, as long as they keep it sectioned off from LU. LaHaye should be strictly for LU use, and the only people that should use the track or anything like that is LCA athletics. A random gym class doesn't need to use it.


A lot of LU kids don't take advantage of LaHaye or things like that because they don't want to be around a bunch of high school kids. Having them right next to each other is ok, but sharing certain things is a negative.

[PeterParker]

I actually agree with Tally for the most part on this one, in that one would be hard pressed not to acknowledge the connection to TRBC fostering the growth of the college in the early days. That being said, today, the college largely stands on its own merit (of course the magnanimous personality and money magnet super skill of Sr. is undeniable as well as those individuals who continue to give to LU who attend TRBC.) Much as a child grows into an adolescent and then adult and then eventually ends up taking care of the parent in time. This is how I see the LU/TRBC relationship developing; LU will grow to "house" TRBC.


As LU ascends the 25K mark, I see TRBC becoming like the church on the campus of Notre Dame (open to all who wish to attend from the community, but will mostly come to serve the University community over time.)

As for the LCA thing, I went to LU when the idea was thrown out, but no one really thought it would happen and most were wary of the idea for some of the reasons mentioned already among others. I think having the cross pollination could be a turn-off for students who come to visit and are looking to go to college and not have high school students roaming the same space. (Granted, there are a few stories here and there of high school age students attending college courses, but that is a bit different than an entire subset of the oncampus population being "under age" so to speak.)

Having said that, there are other examples of colleges linking with the lower school models (Florida State is one that comes to mind.) So, I am not sure what the proper answer is there. I will say that as LU doubles in size, they will become hard pressed for space, and I could see LCA eventually being displaced to another site either on the present campus as a stand alone building with its own sports facilities or on a site within close proximity to the school.

Reference:

1. http://www.fsus.fsu.edu/ Florida State University Schools; Charter School associated with Florida State University

2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_St ... igh_School

Florida State University School, or "Florida High", is located within the Southwood community in the southeast part of Tallahassee, Florida, USA. A charter school that serves kindergarten and grades one through twelve, Florida High is sponsored by Florida State University's College of Education. The school was founded in 1857 as the Primary Department of the Florida Institute, and from 1954 until 2001, was located on the FSU campus. However, the university's interest in building a medical school where Florida High was located forced the school to relocate off campus. In 2001, the new Florida High building in Southwood was opened.

My final observation that segues into this thread is in response to the thread that was started about the christian university, quality/quantity/cost/value, etc. point. If LU wishes to create the reputation that is an academically selective school among its pool of applicants, one way to accomplish that within the paradigm that has been alluded to concerning Sr. not wanting to turn anyone away who wants an education in the christian intellectual tradition would be for the entity to establish a sort of Junior College on site or within close proximity. (Similar to the catholic college model; reference Rudy for a visual) This also provides an outlet for graduate assistantships for LU's impending growth in graduate programs as a result of the push to 25K students so that LU can still claim to have terminally degreed faculty teaching freshman and general courses at LU. Instead, these graduate students could staff or assist new instructors at the Junior College outlet.

Under this model, LU would complete the education institution trifecta, and would give it an out in order to bridge the intersection between both paradigms, an academically selective university (of its available applicants) and not turning away people from experiencing a faith-based education on "the mountain."

This way you create a competition to get into LU among the people who want to attend and allow those who have desire to attend, but will fall out of contention as a result of their current grade situation out of High School which puts them in the more 100 level remedial college courses anyway at LU a way to attain an education on the mountain. These students would work to transfer in while allowing the student body statistics of LU to actually reflect the collective academic strength of its student body, effectively eliminating the dilution of the top and middle percent of the student body collective who are academically gifted. This way the school effectively increases the perceived weighted value of an LU degree on the open market, while preserving the stated desire not to turn anyone who wants a christian education away. (While I know this is not feasible at this point due to the ambitious student body count desire, eventually LU would be at a point where they could adopt the concept.)

Perhaps they could call it Thomas Road College (or Junior College) as an homage to the road where it all started or, perhaps, they could extend an olive branch and name it Candlers Mountain College (Junior College) as an homage to the official mountain name (although we all know that 50 years from now, it will be common knowledge as Liberty Mountain, though the history textbooks (wikibooks at that point?) will rightly have it historically as Candlers Mountain.

[JDUB]

as bored as i am, i'im a little too ADD to read all that

[thepostman]

wow Peter Parker...I read that whole thing somehow and am very impressed with it

it was very nicely put together and I think something that could be possible down the road


LCA does serve LU education majors with a great asset and something that should be used for their advantage....I forgot about that Florida State school....its a separate campus but very much a part of the educational department at Florida St.

Anyways....Like I have said nothing is going to change anytime soon, but there is nothing wrong with discussion....

[qkslvrsrfrboy]

wasnt it just posted on here a few months ago, im not sure if it was here or if i read it somewhere else, i cant cite it or quote it, but im almost positive that at some point over the last couple months Jerry said something along the lines of them building a new separate building for LCA

[thepostman]

haven't heard that one...i mean i would be happy with the move...but it would kind of mean this last move was completely pointless...so i don't see that happening anytime in the near future