If you want to talk ASUN smack or ramble ad nauseum about your favorite pro or major college teams, this is the place to let it rip.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By tyndal23
Registration Days Posts
#654767
Ill flame wrote: August 3rd, 2023, 1:50 pm
tyndal23 wrote: August 3rd, 2023, 11:30 am
prototype wrote: August 3rd, 2023, 10:48 am

For now. The bigger these conferwences get - the more power they obtain and things change quick... I hope we dominate our conference and win a bunch of games - really put pressure on conferences to seek us out.
Yes, for 2 years and then the new CFP will eliminate auto bids.
They added an autobid for the top g5 in part because they were afraid of lawsuits. I don't see that changing.
I don’t remember anyone suing the BCS...but the past PFC - Sankey mainly - was very inclusive for whatever reason to G5 by making it 6 autobids and the PAC of all people were the ones to say NO. Ridiculous.
By tyndal23
Registration Days Posts
#654770
ATrain wrote: August 3rd, 2023, 6:56 pm B1G now testing the waters to see if Oregon and Washington are ok with partial shares: https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... washington
And I repeat myself from 2-3 days ago - MW / PAC 12 merger = 15 teams - if they add SMU or Tulane for 16th team - who is LU up against for next AAC slot - get on it Sly - a little heart trouble is no excuse - God timed it for you to have spare time off work to use your influence on our Admin to figure out a way in to AAC.
By tyndal23
Registration Days Posts
#654771
tyndal23 wrote: August 4th, 2023, 12:00 am
ATrain wrote: August 3rd, 2023, 6:56 pm B1G now testing the waters to see if Oregon and Washington are ok with partial shares: https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... washington
And I repeat myself from 2-3 days ago - MW / PAC 12 merger = 15 teams - if they add SMU or Tulane for 16th team - who is LU up against for next AAC slot - get on it Sly - a little heart trouble is no excuse - God timed it for you to have spare time off work to use your influence on our Admin to figure out a way in to AAC.
And to add to that - what other school can accept a half share or zero share ( except post season $ ) for x amount of time all sports. It all comes down to $ and smart Presidents change their tune real quick lately when it comes to $. Maybe throw in a small kicker of cash on top = doable. The climb out of CUSA to P3( or whatever it becomes ) is unattainable in my lifetime at the ripe old age of 53...pretty sure BC and PH are older. Do it for the blue hairs...
TH Spangler liked this
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#654772
Things are coming more clearly into focus today if the flood of reports have any accuracy to them whatsoever. Here is how I see the next couple of days playing out:

Big XII:
Arizona & Arizona State seem to be locks to make the move now that it is clear in Tempe that the B1G is not an option. Utah likely jumps out of desperation recognizing what is happening around them. Honestly they need the Big XII MUCH more than the other way around. So with no leverage, they will likely cave. If however they hold out hope for some miracle, it could get interesting with UConn. If the B1G decides not to offer the PacNW schools a home, they wil pounce. But that likely won't need to be the clase.


B1G:
Washington & Oregon will be brought into league at half or less shares. I expect this to be public by Tuesday. The economics for the two schools will be similar to Big XII offering but with the promise of full membership at the next media contract. Short term competitive disadvantage against the L.A. schools is worthe long term substance. Phil Knight will keep Oregon from obscurity and UDub is UDub. It will always be attractive as long as the run their athletic department wisely leveraging their new P2 membership. No one else moves the needle for the B1G which is just taking advantage of a situation they created last summer. Stanford will always be out there if Notre Dame ever comes around. But that's not happening this decade.


Pac-12:
By far the unclear situation on multiple fronts. Stanford & Cal are not likely to join any other league as a full member. Period. It is possible they could be part of a reloaded Pac or go Indy/Big West/WCC. They both are strong enough brands to make that work for a few years while things settle down. Wazzu & Oregon State are at the mercy of those around them. Neither has enough value on their own. They do however have enough shared value to be nice pieces in a new puzzle. I see all four schools (and potentially five if Utah gambles on this option) forming a core that either restocks as a much lesser league or merges with chosen remnants of the MWC to position themselves as the clear #5 overall league. These decisions may take days or could filter out over the next few weeks and even months. Once the fire sale is done, there won't urgency. And most signficantly the two academic elites will have to choose whether they want to be part of a real athletic conference or a group of lesser academic peers. Not sure which direction they will lean. Six months ago it would have been a no brainer. Today, not so much.


Potential Athletics-Driven Pac:
  • Boise State
    Cal
    Colorado State
    Fresno State
    Memphis
    Oregon State
    San Diego State
    Stanford
    Washington State
    UNLV


Potential Academics-Driven Pac:
  • Cal
    Oregon State
    Rice
    SMU
    Stanford
    Tulane
    USF
    Washington State

Mountain West:
The issue then becomes is there still a second western FBS league or just one big Pac/MW merger. I lean toward the idea that Cal & Stanford use their leverage to keep some of the riffraff out avoid a full merger. That would mean the MWC survives to live another day with a much depleted lineup. If it is full merger, I don't see much of any impact east of the Mississippi in this round of realignment. But if the MWC looks to reload, it could lead to some crazy combinations of schools aligning with each other. At that point, I could see the MWC attempting to become a national and not just a western league. They have to think about longterm viability and the status quo for them is dismal. Chasing small market midwestern schools like the Dakota States does nothing of significance. They will be chasing longterm partnerships that have upside. I suspect they will come hard for the military academies. Army & Navy would have MASSIVE leverage in what could emerge of a new league. Bringing the Commanders Cup under one banner is attractive. West Point has always wanted to have more control than the old CUSA offered them and this might be their opportunity. Such a move would be very fortuitous in Lynchburg. We are a free agent with resources who would be happy to slide into a national league. Is this likely? No. But if we were looking for a best case scenario, this might be it. Otherwise the MWC would likely replenish with some of the obvious regional options. They would most certainly have Texas State at the top of their wish list with UTEP a nice partner. I used to know the leadership in San Marcos back in the day and how they felt about western leagues. But my contacts have all gone away. But I honestly don't see Texas State being enthusiastic unless the academies were involved. No AAC teams wouldlikely be intrigued by a lateral move that would cost them a fortune in entry & exit fees. So the options would be limited in this space. NM State would only be brought in to even out numbers. With UNM and potentially UTEP, NMSU doesn't do much more than become a placeholder for the MWC.


AAC:
If the Pac chooses to go the academic route and raids the AAC hard with SMU, Rice, Tulane and potentially even USF & Tulsa, there will most certainly be significant movement into the AAC. if they go the athletic route and perhaps just take SMU, I see the AAC simply grabbing one school and stopping. Once again, Georgia State makes the most sense from the AAC perpective. But I am not convinced GSU would see it worth the effort to move. Texas State might be an option but the AAC already has nearby UTSA. Our primary competitiors remaining to fill any hole might be our current CUSA members: MTSU & WKU. If the AAC were taking three schools, we would likely be one of them IMHO. If they take one, MTSU fits the AAC profile better than we do and would likely accept. WKU wouldn't be a first choice for the AAC but they would likely acceptable.
User avatar
By LUOrange
Registration Days Posts
#654774
Sly Fox wrote: August 4th, 2023, 9:17 am Things are coming more clearly into focus today if the flood of reports have any accuracy to them whatsoever. Here is how I see the next couple of days playing out:

Big XII:
Arizona & Arizona State seem to be locks to make the move now that it is clear in Tempe that the B1G is not an option. Utah likely jumps out of desperation recognizing what is happening around them. Honestly they need the Big XII MUCH more than the other way around. So with no leverage, they will likely cave. If however they hold out hope for some miracle, it could get interesting with UConn. If the B1G decides not to offer the PacNW schools a home, they wil pounce. But that likely won't need to be the clase.


B1G:
Washington & Oregon will be brought into league at half or less shares. I expect this to be public by Tuesday. The economics for the two schools will be similar to Big XII offering but with the promise of full membership at the next media contract. Short term competitive disadvantage against the L.A. schools is worthe long term substance. Phil Knight will keep Oregon from obscurity and UDub is UDub. It will always be attractive as long as the run their athletic department wisely leveraging their new P2 membership. No one else moves the needle for the B1G which is just taking advantage of a situation they created last summer. Stanford will always be out there if Notre Dame ever comes around. But that's not happening this decade.


Pac-12:
By far the unclear situation on multiple fronts. Stanford & Cal are not likely to join any other league as a full member. Period. It is possible they could be part of a reloaded Pac or go Indy/Big West/WCC. They both are strong enough brands to make that work for a few years while things settle down. Wazzu & Oregon State are at the mercy of those around them. Neither has enough value on their own. They do however have enough shared value to be nice pieces in a new puzzle. I see all four schools (and potentially five if Utah gambles on this option) forming a core that either restocks as a much lesser league or merges with chosen remnants of the MWC to position themselves as the clear #5 overall league. These decisions may take days or could filter out over the next few weeks and even months. Once the fire sale is done, there won't urgency. And most signficantly the two academic elites will have to choose whether they want to be part of a real athletic conference or a group of lesser academic peers. Not sure which direction they will lean. Six months ago it would have been a no brainer. Today, not so much.


Potential Athletics-Driven Pac:
  • Boise State
    Cal
    Colorado State
    Fresno State
    Memphis
    Oregon State
    San Diego State
    Stanford
    Washington State
    UNLV


Potential Academics-Driven Pac:
  • Cal
    Oregon State
    Rice
    SMU
    Stanford
    Tulane
    USF
    Washington State

Mountain West:
The issue then becomes is there still a second western FBS league or just one big Pac/MW merger. I lean toward the idea that Cal & Stanford use their leverage to keep some of the riffraff out avoid a full merger. That would mean the MWC survives to live another day with a much depleted lineup. If it is full merger, I don't see much of any impact east of the Mississippi in this round of realignment. But if the MWC looks to reload, it could lead to some crazy combinations of schools aligning with each other. At that point, I could see the MWC attempting to become a national and not just a western league. They have to think about longterm viability and the status quo for them is dismal. Chasing small market midwestern schools like the Dakota States does nothing of significance. They will be chasing longterm partnerships that have upside. I suspect they will come hard for the military academies. Army & Navy would have MASSIVE leverage in what could emerge of a new league. Bringing the Commanders Cup under one banner is attractive. West Point has always wanted to have more control than the old CUSA offered them and this might be their opportunity. Such a move would be very fortuitous in Lynchburg. We are a free agent with resources who would be happy to slide into a national league. Is this likely? No. But if we were looking for a best case scenario, this might be it. Otherwise the MWC would likely replenish with some of the obvious regional options. They would most certainly have Texas State at the top of their wish list with UTEP a nice partner. I used to know the leadership in San Marcos back in the day and how they felt about western leagues. But my contacts have all gone away. But I honestly don't see Texas State being enthusiastic unless the academies were involved. No AAC teams wouldlikely be intrigued by a lateral move that would cost them a fortune in entry & exit fees. So the options would be limited in this space. NM State would only be brought in to even out numbers. With UNM and potentially UTEP, NMSU doesn't do much more than become a placeholder for the MWC.


AAC:
If the Pac chooses to go the academic route and raids the AAC hard with SMU, Rice, Tulane and potentially even USF & Tulsa, there will most certainly be significant movement into the AAC. if they go the athletic route and perhaps just take SMU, I see the AAC simply grabbing one school and stopping. Once again, Georgia State makes the most sense from the AAC perpective. But I am not convinced GSU would see it worth the effort to move. Texas State might be an option but the AAC already has nearby UTSA. Our primary competitiors remaining to fill any hole might be our current CUSA members: MTSU & WKU. If the AAC were taking three schools, we would likely be one of them IMHO. If they take one, MTSU fits the AAC profile better than we do and would likely accept. WKU wouldn't be a first choice for the AAC but they would likely acceptable.
What's the possibility of the PAC4 (Stanford, Cal, OSU & WSU) merging with the AAC?
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#654775
Very low. No upside for Pac schools other than weak ESPN contract. The remaining Pac schools lose the little A5 leverage they possess.
User avatar
By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#654776
Sly, based on the amount of critical thinking, research, and writing in your 5-paragraph post, you sound like your old self!!! I hope those meds and your new diet are helping. We've missed you, Sly, and God bless you, brother!
:typing :cartwheels :fineprint
TH Spangler, rtb72, LUOrange and 1 others liked this
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#654779
Moving for 2024 was the only slight surprise. Once the details start emerging on the compensation it will be interesting to digest.

This seals the deal ...

Image

Expect the Arizona schools to be in the Big XII by the next few hours. Then it gets real interesting.
Liberty22, Cider Jim liked this
User avatar
By prototype
Registration Days Posts
#654780
who knows what could happen at this point. I could see Conference USA merging with Pac12, MWC and someone else at this point. Why not?
LUOrange liked this
User avatar
By Have_a_Gansett_2011
Posts
#654782
We are all in conjecture mode of course, but my best guess at this point is that OrSt and Wazzu move to the MWC, who then add SMU to make 14, possibly looking to UTEP and/or Tulane to get to 16 for stability.

Then Cal/Stanford go independent FBS and join WCC in Olympics.

CUSA will be in danger after losing UTEP, especially if AAC comes calling for WKU/MTSU/Lib/etc. which will happen if step 1 happens.

Our best hope for LU’s progress right now is a broken ACC. If FSU breaks the gates open, we may really be in the running for a regional conference with some of the “small” ACC schools that could be left out in the cold. Think Wake, Duke, BC, etc. Would love to eventually see that and absolutely trust ADIM to move hard and fast if something like that opened up.
User avatar
By Ill flame
Posts
#654784
Sly Fox wrote: August 4th, 2023, 9:56 pm Looking more and more like this is all coming to a quick ending. Don't expect a significant number of additional dominoes.
Feels like just the beginning. We've got 4 teams in the PAC 12 and they have to do something. Either 6+ G5 teams are "moving up" to the pac 12 or the four remaining pac 12 schools need to find new homes. Regardless both scenarios require several more dominos to fall.
Liberty22 liked this
User avatar
By Have_a_Gansett_2011
Posts
#654785
Yeah I think so too. If OrSt and Wazzu somehow become 17/18 in Big XII, then things slow down a lot. If not, then MWC looks at things differently and we see more dominoes falling.

Most chaos comes from a PAC-4 + 8 G5 teams from MWC/AAC.

In any case, we’re gonna be down to 9 FBS conferences by next July.
By tyndal23
Registration Days Posts
#654786
Have_a_Gansett_2011 wrote: August 4th, 2023, 11:53 pm Yeah I think so too. If OrSt and Wazzu somehow become 17/18 in Big XII, then things slow down a lot. If not, then MWC looks at things differently and we see more dominoes falling.

Most chaos comes from a PAC-4 + 8 G5 teams from MWC/AAC.

In any case, we’re gonna be down to 9 FBS conferences by next July.
Best case scenario for LU if 4 remain in PAC12 and they scoop/merge with MW + 1-3 AAC - but the fact that Stanford hung up on the call with GK doesn’t bode well for that scenario it is looking less and less favorable for us, but tomorrow is a new day...things are happening in hours not days at this point...
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#654787
This realignment spin cycle has ultimately landed in a position where it will have minimal to no impact at G5 level. The power has just been further consolidated up top and a bigger gap has emerged to G5 schools.

This is neither tragic nor opportunistic from an LU perspective. We have been saying consistently that major movement right now is not in LU’s best timing. We need time to get our house together and theoretically win our way into better positioning. We have been afforded that time based on the Pac’s demise.
Purple Haize liked this
By tyndal23
Registration Days Posts
#654790
Sly Fox wrote: August 5th, 2023, 4:58 am This realignment spin cycle has ultimately landed in a position where it will have minimal to no impact at G5 level. The power has just been further consolidated up top and a bigger gap has emerged to G5 schools.

This is neither tragic nor opportunistic from an LU perspective. We have been saying consistently that major movement right now is not in LU’s best timing. We need time to get our house together and theoretically win our way into better positioning. We have been afforded that time based on the Pac’s demise.
I disagree. If Big12 doesn’t add WSU and OSU, then it is game on. PAC adds 6-8 ( 6 preferably ) and takes 3 best MW and 3 best AAC ( or maybe 2/4 ) and AAC goes hunting in the east - best case for LU. If it is a VA team, ODU will get the first call, then JMU, and probably not LU unless we get aggressive. Regardless, if Sunbelt loses a couple - LU has a real shot at Sunbelt which is way more attractive games than CUSA to build up football image. ( sorry hoops fans )
User avatar
By LUOrange
Registration Days Posts
#654792
Looks like the G5 dominoes may start dropping. According to this account, the PAC4 will take half the MWC & some AAC schools. Apparently/obviously, the PAC brand and it's P5/A5 status is the value. If this happens it could be good for us, but is kind of how I thought things would go.

Read the whole thread.

Last edited by LUOrange on August 6th, 2023, 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By tyndal23
Registration Days Posts
#654793
LUOrange wrote: August 5th, 2023, 11:03 pm Looks like the G% dominoes may start dropping. According to this account, the PAC4 will take half the MWC & some AAC schools. Apparently/obviously, the PAC brand and it's P5/A5 status is the value. If this happens it could be good for us, but is kind of how I thought things would go.

Read the whole thread.

I follow MHVer3 and turns out he has great sources, but agree more with Sly about MW buyouts being too steep for most, and a half share for new members will be less than MW $ and the near certainty Cal & Stanford get swallowed up in next go around - that will creat pause for SDSU types ( who have ruined their image the past month ). Boosters will have a lot of say for those types of teams on whether to roll the dice - Presidents are going to need a lot of pressure/support. Then you have the Cal/Stanford academia crap to still deal with - hence I see more the Tulane/Rice/ types over Boise St types - perhaps it is a blend of the 2 - best academic and best football brands with Cal/Stanford holding their nose for short term...
By tyndal23
Registration Days Posts
#654794
Pray Big 12 doesn’t scoop up WSU/OSU - or it literally is 40 years in the desert for Flames unless the Saudis buy ESPN and fund the schools who want out of ACC and leave enough schools behind for - aww nevermind....getting a headache.
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#654796
The Big XII has ZERO interest in Wazzu/Oregon State. Zilch. They would find Gonzaga & San Diego State much more attractive out west. I could see the Big XII take a Gonzaga/UConn non-football combo. But even that is very unlikely at this stage.

Wazzu & Oregon State are MWC programs who rode the Pac-12 money to a certain degree of relevance. But that money is gone and those two schools will likely have slash more than half of their operating budgets. Wazzu neighbors Idaho just six miles east and they will likely be peer schools moving forward.

The Pac-4 have a reported $70M debt load to Comcast making bankruptcy a strong possibility. They also have no media revenue contract moving forward to use an an enticement for schools to join. There have been discussions of legal moves to remove exit fees and claim Pac branding. That seems the most viable path forward with a Pac/MWC merger. Could a few schools be shed in the process? Yes, it could happen. Hawaii, San Jose State & Nevada are not as valued as others. That could lead to a trickle impact headed east.

Stanford & Cal are completely different beasts. Both are attractive enough as institutions that theoretically the B1G, Big XII or ACC could rescue them under certain favorable terms. There is still one year of Pac play left under the existing TV contract before all of the schools depart next summer in bulk. Both school would in all essence be free agents. They could immediately slide into a new league for Fall of '24 or begin an Indy football experience if they so chose. Cal had massively financed a stadium upgrade putting some pressure on them avoiding shuttering their football program. But even that is on the table. Stanford is less likely to dump football. They have built in contracts and rivalries that will allow them to survive much better as an independent even though their athletic budget is going to be hammered without media revenue. I honestly believe the Cardinal are very likely to be added somewhere. Perhaps along Tobacco Road.

If the MWC does collectively choose to forego their exit fees, there does remain the possibility that some of the MWC like Boise State, San Diego State & Air Force Academy could use this as an opportunity to head east to AAC. I don't see that as highly likely but is certainly on the table. With crazy high exit fees for bth MWC & AAC, it makes no financial sense to move between them. This is why it is unlikely SMU, Rice & Tulane head west. the economics simply don't make sense even if the idea of an Ivy-esque athletic league is appealing.

I believe the CUSA is locked in for now. UTEP or NMSU could potentially make move to new Pac/MWC but is not very likely at this stage. The ten schools we have in the league are who I expect to be rolling with for at least few years. Recognizing that the uncertainty is being removed and that the gates are essentially closing might encourage one of the fence-sitting schools to make a last second push to join CUSA. I am thinking the Missouri States or Delawares have to be doing some soul-searching right now. The MWC dreams of the Montanas & Dakota States have now vanished as well. I could see CUSA take two more schools under certain circumstances.

As for the AAC, it is honestly not a huge step up for us in this new P4/G6 environment. It would present better regional rivalries and put us in better position to snatch one of the six auto bids for the new football playoff format. But the gap between the P4 and the ACC just grew considerably wider. The AAC should remain our primary target. Keep in mind that decreasing media revenue is what caused the chaos of this past week as the cord-cutting and new subscription models are no longer as lucrative for the Disneys, Foxs & Discoverys. The next major round of media negotiations later this decade could result in a completely different model. I share this because our ability to be a candidate to a league like the AAC without demanding full media shares could be advantageous at some point. I am not suggesting we buy our way in. But look how Oregon & UDub made their wat into B1G at half shares. That could be a path for us.

Frankly I am excited that top level chaos didn't spill down further into the ranks. This bought us time to keep building our reputation and standing as a G5 athletic program. No one questions our resources but many question our ability to sustain the Freeze Factor. It also gives the school an opportunity to further distance itself from the scandals of the past few years. It will be crucial that perception changes for us to reach much higher in the athletic space.
ballcoach15, LUOrange liked this
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#654798
tyndal23 wrote: August 5th, 2023, 11:54 pm Pray Big 12 doesn’t scoop up WSU/OSU - or it literally is 40 years in the desert for Flames unless the Saudis buy ESPN and fund the schools who want out of ACC and leave enough schools behind for - aww nevermind....getting a headache.
Now there’s an idea. We had LIV Golf. Why not LIV Football? LIV Basketball?
  • 1
  • 563
  • 564
  • 565
  • 566
  • 567
  • 607
JMU

Hope I’m wrong but it’s kinda difficul[…]

Bowling Green

I believe JMU is coming off of a bye, so I think t[…]

QB Competition

Vasko is way too mistake prone. From bad throws, i[…]

Charlie Kirk

But all the comments are that he wasn't a leftist.[…]