[Risewithus]

That was my thinking as well. Alot of the current schedule were teams willing to play us when they thought we were an easy win. That is no longer the case.

[Racenut]

I don't why it is so hard to see. Joining the 7th or 8th best FCS conference locks us into that bottom feeder caste system in the eyes of media, coaches and potential recruits. A 4-star recruit is NEVER going to consider going to a C-USA school and a great coach will never consider the move here if that is the perception (once Coach Freeze retires). Focusing on last week's anomaly is very short sighted. We have a great coach, a great AD, great facilities and a great spirit of optimism and excitement that is unique. The reason BYU got out of the WAC and the Mountain West was the glass ceiling that those affiliations represent. That affiliation was perpetually pigeon holing that program into a lesser class. Not trying to say that those programs are inferior, but as Jerry Sr. once said, "If it's Christian, it ought to be better". Our aspirations should be higher. I could be mistaken, but I doubt that a coach on the level of HCHF would want to stay long if they have that handicap on the recruiting trail. I doubt that coaches and players that we want to attract to the mountain have ever grown up dreaming of a C-USA Championship.

[Purple Haize]

I don't why it is so hard to see. Joining the 7th or 8th best FCS conference locks us into that bottom feeder caste system in the eyes of media, coaches and potential recruits. A 4-star recruit is NEVER going to consider going to a C-USA school and a great coach will never consider the move here if that is the perception (once Coach Freeze retires). Focusing on last week's anomaly is very short sighted. We have a great coach, a great AD, great facilities and a great spirit of optimism and excitement that is unique. The reason BYU got out of the WAC and the Mountain West was the glass ceiling that those affiliations represent. That affiliation was perpetually pigeon holing that program into a lesser class. Not trying to say that those programs are inferior, but as Jerry Sr. once said, "If it's Christian, it ought to be better". Our aspirations should be higher. I could be mistaken, but I doubt that a coach on the level of HCHF would want to stay long if they have that handicap on the recruiting trail. I doubt that coaches and players that we want to attract to the mountain have ever grown up dreaming of a C-USA Championship.

You make similar mistakes that you accuse others of making
You assume this would be LU’s final resting spot
You assume CUSA won’t ever grow in prestige
You assume it’s member schools won’t find national success which would lead to greater league prestige
You assume a 4 Star recruit is going to look at playing UMASS NMSU etc as more desirable than any school in CUSA.
You assume recruits would not want to be a part of building something
You assume having fewer Bowl tie ins is a Good thing.
You accuse others of lack of vision, while ironically not seeing your own

[Racenut]

Case in point....
Flipping back and forth between Tulane/SMU game and Louisiana/Arkansas State games. The differences in the physical make up of the players is staggering between the AAC players and the Sun Belt players. C-USA players are for the most part, a notch below or are equal to the Sun Belt. You are not going to attract the potential big time players to the bottom tier schools. Particularly the interior lineman who are in short supply. That's why, when P-5's play these smaller schools, they hang for a quarter or a half, then they get drilled. We, as a fan base and a university need to keep pushing this envelope and not take a detour through a lower tier conference.
And those who would say we could still schedule 3 P-5's a year don't take into account how less flexible a conference schedule is and they don't take into account the results of playing P-5's with C-USA players.

[stokesjokes]

Three of the 4 teams just invited to the Big 12 started in Conference USA. Obviously the landscape is different, but for reference, Houston and UCF were in CUSA only 9 years ago.

If we succeed the way most here think we will, we wouldn’t stay in CUSA for long. IMO dominating CUSA does more for us than slowly working our way towards tougher Indy schedules.

[tyndal23]

Another change is happening within 1-2 years maybe even weeks or months. Big 12 is expanding regardless and will probably be first to act, pac 12 will raid 2 teams at least from original Big 12 members ( that is why Big 12 isn’t done adding because they know it’s coming ). Kansas will go to big 10, LU needs to sit tight right now - other slots in AAC and Sunbelt will be open.( if your dream is a G5 invite over Indie )

[BlueBlood]

If LU goes the C-USA or SunBelt route, I don’t think it’s LU’s end-game position.
But I don’t think being Indy and scheduling 2 P5s a year is end game either.
It’s all just part of the process.

I trust that Ian will take the route that he thinks best helps LU.

[TallyW]

We keep talking about movement but I don't see how movement should be taken as a given. I agree with Tyndal... This just doesn't feel like the right opportunity.

As the P5 fills out, there are literally only so many spots for movement going forward. 16 teams in each conference seems to be the limit. At what point do G5's no longer have the opportunity to move up?

With us starting at this depleted CUSA level next to JMU, we aren't going be be near the top of anyone's wish list. We'll always be waiting for 10 other moves ahead of us. I don't know how many more opportunities we will have for 10-school moves.

Staying Indy (with ESPN) will at least give us the ability to define our own brand and make a case that we are worthy on our own merit without being defined by the company we keep. I would hate to be a "CUSA school" under this potential makeup.

CUSA is probably great in a practical sense for our budget and Olympics, but I can't see where it's the best move in the aspirational sense.

We've done a remarkable job in these first few years FBS. I just hate to think that we're going to throw that away. If we go as proposed, it won't take long until we're an average team in a bad G5 conference.

Also with this move, however, I think IM sees his job here as done and HCHF certainly takes the next train of the mountain. Both can celebrate getting us transitioned and we'll have these years to look back on as "The Good Old Days"... So there's that.

[tyndal23]

Three of the 4 teams just invited to the Big 12 started in Conference USA. Obviously the landscape is different, but for reference, Houston and UCF were in CUSA only 9 years ago.

If we succeed the way most here think we will, we wouldn’t stay in CUSA for long. IMO dominating CUSA does more for us than slowly working our way towards tougher Indy schedules.

I agree. Slowly working towards tougher P5 schedules will not work. All or nothing with P5 budget for coaches, recruiting budget, at a very high level is the only way it would work for LU and willingness to pay premium for P5 home games plus take extra road games. If LU isn’t willing to do that, then join the best conference you can. Travel isn’t an issue for LU so will be AAC in the very near term, or Sunbelt after they lose another team or 2 - OR if there is a tv deal we don’t know about in the works for CUSA - but does anyone want to try and find games every week on Stadium / Flo - that is what CUSA was BEFORE they lost 6 teams. I get the local Lynchburg crowd likes close rivalry games, but vast majority of out of state fans aren’t chomping at the bit for CUSA.

[BlueBlood]

We keep talking about movement but I don't see how movement should be taken as a given.

It’s not. There might not even be a viable opportunity to consider.

[Racenut]

It would be nice to have a crystal ball. I believe we are blessed to have someone as in tune with things as Ian in charge and I trust his judgement. No one would like closer away games than me, but it just seems to me that if we join one of the bottom feeders, that's the caliber players that we are going to attract, which would make the hill harder to climb. Either way, I'm in. Maybe God's plans for His University are better than mine. Imagine that.

[BlueBlood]

Either way, I'm in.

Me too

[BlueBlood]

Part of me thinks that the only thing slowing Marshall, ODU and JMU to the SBC down is that they are more complete athletic departments than some of the SBC schools. They may need to do some recon regarding affiliate memberships for a bunch of sports.

[jimflamesfan]

I don't think it's going to matter. It looks like Marshall is going to end up going to the Sunbelt. They may take ODU and maybe JMU with them.. There will be no spot for us. If JMU goes...it may open up an olympic spot in the CAA. The CAA olympic and football are separate entities...so LU could possibly stay indy for football and possibly take JMU"s CAA olympic spot and get home games against William & Mary, Richmond, and UNC Wilmington and such for hoops and baseball/etc.. BUT...I think if LU stays indy then we should keep our Olympic sports in the Asun over the CAA. One thing about the Asun...at least they are HAPPY having us in their conference. That means something. The Asun took our Olympic sports in when the Big South wanted to kick us out. So if we miss out on this round of expansion and can continue growing football as an independent while helping the Asun get better in Olympic sports..so be it.

[tyndal23]

Either way, I'm in.

Me too

Ditto. We will end up where we are supposed to be and I will watch and support ( but reserve the right to pounce when we beat USC ( South Carolina ) and someone says “vision fulfilled”...

[LUaddict]

Jim it’s like you read my mind. Maybe being independent is probably is best because we don’t really fit in with all the rust belt and CUSA schools. Maybe our trajectory can be higher. If we do get a CUSA spot, it could be an opportunity for us. Let wait where the chips will fall. #Fanem

I don't think it's going to matter. It looks like Marshall is going to end up going to the Sunbelt. They may take ODU and maybe JMU with them.. There will be no spot for us. If JMU goes...it may open up an olympic spot in the CAA. The CAA olympic and football are separate entities...so LU could possibly stay indy for football and possibly take JMU"s CAA olympic spot and get home games against William & Mary, Richmond, and UNC Wilmington and such for hoops and baseball/etc.. BUT...I think if LU stays indy then we should keep our Olympic sports in the Asun over the CAA. One thing about the Asun...at least they are HAPPY having us in their conference. That means something. The Asun took our Olympic sports in when the Big South wanted to kick us out. So if we miss out on this round of expansion and can continue growing football as an independent while helping the Asun get better in Olympic sports..so be it.

[jimflamesfan]

This is an article from Marshall's perspective. They still call LU a "FCS call up".

https://www.register-herald.com/sports/ ... 32575.html

[Liberty22]

This is an article from Marshall's perspective. They still call LU a "FCS call up".

https://www.register-herald.com/sports/ ... 32575.html

I actually think it’s a typo and they were trying to say “independent schools like Liberty OR Fcs call ups.” I think that was the intent and not of.

[ballcoach15]

ASUN is better than CAA.

[BlueBlood]

Part of me thinks that the only thing slowing Marshall, ODU and JMU to the SBC down is that they are more complete athletic departments than some of the SBC schools. They may need to do some recon regarding affiliate memberships for a bunch of sports.

And along these same lines, I’m sure there was at least some thought regarding “this is our chance to essentially create our own conference with more sports offerings - one that would have soccer and lacrosse and field hockey and swimming, etc. Are we sure we want to let this opportunity pass?”

It’s intriguing. It’s pretty daunting though - and it looks like you’d probably be fighting against ESPN to do it.

[ballcoach15]

If expansion went by "complete athletic departments" Liberty would be invited to join SEC, ACC, or Big 12. No G5 school that I know of, has an overall athletic program as good as Liberty's.

[Ill flame]

C-usa could very well be an ESPN conference by the time we join. That part would be the least of my worries.

[BlueBlood]

C-usa could very well be an ESPN conference by the time we join. That part would be the least of my worries.

Eventually, yes.

But in the short-term it is obvious that ESPN has a hand in trying to dismantle it (with ESPN affiliated conferences AAC, SBC and maybe even the MAC picking it apart).

[rmiller1959]

It's probably good to be Jeff Bourne these days:

https://newsadvance.com/sports/college/ ... f85c5.html

[Sly Fox]

My understanding is that the CUSA contract expires after the 22-23 season. Does that mean CUSA would land with ESPN? Not necessarily. But the TV landscape has changed significantly since the last round of negotiations.

I am not solidly in either Indy or CUSA/MidAtlantic camp. I see advantages on both sides. But until we know exactly what is being offered to us it is tough to have enough clarity to identify the better choice.