[rogers3]

So illegal but not arrested is okay?

Sharing photos of Becki in next to nothing to married men is okay?

Is using University resources for personal gain stealing from the university?

While this was asked in a rhetorical fashion, that last point is just too good to let pass by. Their are a fair number of local business people and upper level admins who stand to lose quite a bit if Jerry was dismissed. Liberty is known for dealing better than fair hands to insiders. The closer this gets to family, the closer this gets to being illegal.
For Proto's concern about people not knowing Jerry but being willing to share less than positive opinions, I'm sure that I have known him longer than many of you have been born.... and I don't have many positive views on his leadership.

[hoop20]

Hmmm. Just WHAT IS your red line? You are saying just a "maybe" to a "discussion" and/or a "suspension".

I think Jerry has earned a few screwups. Don't want to hear about masks and boat thing anymore - those were both blown way out of proportion and one wasn't racist and the other wasn't a party on a boat. My redline is letting BOT handle and trust they know what they are doing. We all say stupid things - doesn't mean we shouldn't be employed. We live in a snowflake societthat y these days.

There have been several "screwups" noted. You seem to be extremely defensive of some indefensible behavior. Respectfully, is there a connection with Jr that causes what some may call "loyalty" and others "enabling"?

John, literally the other day you assumed I was anti-trump and challenged me to provide a list (with very strict guidelines) of Jerry's "screwups". Did my list work so well that you've now changed your mind and are now arguing against Jerry defenders???? I'm surprised he could do something in your eyes that you would call "indefensible behavior."

[hoop20]

So illegal but not arrested is okay?

Sharing photos of Becki in next to nothing to married men is okay?

Is using University resources for personal gain stealing from the university?

His misuse of university resources should 100% be considered stealing.

[ballcoach15]

Let's not forget: Liberty is a private university.

[Jonathan Carone]

Coach me up - why does that matter to this case?

[Just John]

I think Jerry has earned a few screwups. Don't want to hear about masks and boat thing anymore - those were both blown way out of proportion and one wasn't racist and the other wasn't a party on a boat. My redline is letting BOT handle and trust they know what they are doing. We all say stupid things - doesn't mean we shouldn't be employed. We live in a snowflake societthat y these days.

There have been several "screwups" noted. You seem to be extremely defensive of some indefensible behavior. Respectfully, is there a connection with Jr that causes what some may call "loyalty" and others "enabling"?

John, literally the other day you assumed I was anti-trump and challenged me to provide a list (with very strict guidelines) of Jerry's "screwups". Did my list work so well that you've now changed your mind and are now arguing against Jerry defenders???? I'm surprised he could do something in your eyes that you would call "indefensible behavior."

Perhaps I did not "reply" correctly. My question was directed to Prototype. In fact, I included a couple of screw-ups to your list. (I'm thinking you meant "anti-Jerry" in this case... )

[ballcoach15]

Coach me up - why does that matter to this case?

A private university can do some things, a public university cannot. Whether they are right, wrong or indifferent.

[Purple Haize]

Coach me up - why does that matter to this case?

A private university can do some things, a public university cannot. Whether they are right, wrong or indifferent.

This is why you are #fraudcoach. You just said it’s perfectly ok for a Private University to do something wrong or indifferent.

[ballcoach15]

I DID NOT say they were ok.

[Purple Haize]

I DID NOT say they were ok.

You said ——

A private university can do some things, a public university cannot. Whether they are right, wrong or indifferent.

That’s your defense of this. That it’s ok for Private Universities to do wrong things but not Public Universities

[rogers3]

I DID NOT say they were ok.

Private tax-exempt organization.
Very different from being a run-of-the-mill private company.

[gerb]

I wonder if some of those defending JR also benefit from a business relationship or access to the inner circle and don’t want to see that end.

[hoop20]

There have been several "screwups" noted. You seem to be extremely defensive of some indefensible behavior. Respectfully, is there a connection with Jr that causes what some may call "loyalty" and others "enabling"?

John, literally the other day you assumed I was anti-trump and challenged me to provide a list (with very strict guidelines) of Jerry's "screwups". Did my list work so well that you've now changed your mind and are now arguing against Jerry defenders???? I'm surprised he could do something in your eyes that you would call "indefensible behavior."

Perhaps I did not "reply" correctly. My question was directed to Prototype. In fact, I included a couple of screw-ups to your list. (I'm thinking you meant "anti-Jerry" in this case... )

No problem, it can get confusing on here. I was referring to our interaction a few days ago. Reading your posts is confusing as you seem to be changing your views.

[Just John]

John, literally the other day you assumed I was anti-trump and challenged me to provide a list (with very strict guidelines) of Jerry's "screwups". Did my list work so well that you've now changed your mind and are now arguing against Jerry defenders???? I'm surprised he could do something in your eyes that you would call "indefensible behavior."

Perhaps I did not "reply" correctly. My question was directed to Prototype. In fact, I included a couple of screw-ups to your list. (I'm thinking you meant "anti-Jerry" in this case... )

No problem, it can get confusing on here. I was referring to our interaction a few days ago. Reading your posts is confusing as you seem to be changing your views.

Hmmm... My views on Jr have been consistently stringent. have said for a couple years he needs to be gone. Even more so now.

[TH Spangler]

Correct me if I'm wrong. JustJohn posted about the Roys lady ballcoach brought up. Said she was horrible. Reviled he went to Saddleback church for 25 years, and was on staff. Then a short time later deleted and rewrote the post and reversed course on her. I think someone said Roys call out Saddleback during the time period he said he was there. A lot spinning going on here.

[flameshaw]

Today should be an interesting day. It is kinda interesting to me that the bored gets a letter from 50 LU graduate pastors, the day before a board meeting. I don't believe in coincidences.

[prototype]

So illegal but not arrested is okay?

Sharing photos of Becki in next to nothing to married men is okay?

Is using University resources for personal gain stealing from the university?

Illegal is illegal until proven in a court of law. I'm saying not hearsay, rumors or gossip. If I hired you and fired you because I heard you were selling meth on the side, with no real proof - would you sue me wrongful termination?

I don't know what happened with the pictures of Becki - but that's an issue between Jerry and his wife - not us... That was a private text and almost nothing isn't porn. I sent a picture of my wife in her bathing suit last month to friends...

Again - Big words with no proof of any wrong-doing. Did he have permission to use staff? Is it really stealing? I use my staff often to help with personal projects - I don't think I'm stealing resources from it. Did he use money that was truly for his personal gain? Again, where's the proof of clear wrong-doing? We all read that crap article a year ago and it was completely off - and I can personally say that. No one on this board knows the details of any deals he makes.

[Purple Haize]

It seems the Board thought what was shown in Public was grounds for suspension and possible termination. And you said you have 100% confidence in the BoT. You seem to be saying you disagree with what the Board did while saying you agree with the Board.

[thepostman]

Illegal is illegal until proven in a court of law. I'm saying not hearsay, rumors or gossip. If I hired you and fired you because I heard you were selling meth on the side, with no real proof - would you sue me wrongful termination?

I don't know what happened with the pictures of Becki - but that's an issue between Jerry and his wife - not us... That was a private text and almost nothing isn't porn. I sent a picture of my wife in her bathing suit last month to friends...

Again - Big words with no proof of any wrong-doing. Did he have permission to use staff? Is it really stealing? I use my staff often to help with personal projects - I don't think I'm stealing resources from it. Did he use money that was truly for his personal gain? Again, where's the proof of clear wrong-doing? We all read that crap article a year ago and it was completely off - and I can personally say that. No one on this board knows the details of any deals he makes.

You keep using your own personal, private business to compare how a Christian University president should conduct themselves. It just isn't a fair comparison.

Your perspective is certinaly a unique one and I do appreciate it. I just don't think it is a fair comparison.

[prototype]

I wonder if some of those defending JR also benefit from a business relationship or access to the inner circle and don’t want to see that end.

If this was directed at me. Absolutely not. I haven't worked for Liberty in years and that article from a year ago was way off base and inaccurate - we both lost the same amount of money. That hit me a lot harder than it did Liberty. I think people who defend Jerry - are people who don't like seeing a man's character, family and life dragged through the mud by people that are bitter and don't understand that running a multi-Billion dollar company doesn't come with it's bumps.

That alumni letter from pastors and the website are a prime example of what's wrong with this situation. Half of timeline is made up of Jerry's backing of Trump. Like that was wrong. What did you guys want? Him to stand behind Clinton? You might not like Trump, but he will protect Liberty and Liberty's vision more than Clinton, Biden, Obama, etc... Then the rest of it is made up of a bunch or rumors, gossip and assumptions. Jerry, Jr. does not deserve to be treated this way - no human-being does.

[Purple Haize]

Illegal is illegal until proven in a court of law. I'm saying not hearsay, rumors or gossip. If I hired you and fired you because I heard you were selling meth on the side, with no real proof - would you sue me wrongful termination?

I don't know what happened with the pictures of Becki - but that's an issue between Jerry and his wife - not us... That was a private text and almost nothing isn't porn. I sent a picture of my wife in her bathing suit last month to friends...

Again - Big words with no proof of any wrong-doing. Did he have permission to use staff? Is it really stealing? I use my staff often to help with personal projects - I don't think I'm stealing resources from it. Did he use money that was truly for his personal gain? Again, where's the proof of clear wrong-doing? We all read that crap article a year ago and it was completely off - and I can personally say that. No one on this board knows the details of any deals he makes.

You keep using your own personal, private business to compare how a Christian University president should conduct themselves. It just isn't a fair comparison.

Your perspective is certinaly a unique one and I do appreciate it. I just don't think it is a fair comparison.

The great thing about having your whole family work for the University is that you can take them all on the University plane on the University dime for University business to Florida Texas Vegas Hawaii Europe etc

[prototype]

Illegal is illegal until proven in a court of law. I'm saying not hearsay, rumors or gossip. If I hired you and fired you because I heard you were selling meth on the side, with no real proof - would you sue me wrongful termination?

I don't know what happened with the pictures of Becki - but that's an issue between Jerry and his wife - not us... That was a private text and almost nothing isn't porn. I sent a picture of my wife in her bathing suit last month to friends...

Again - Big words with no proof of any wrong-doing. Did he have permission to use staff? Is it really stealing? I use my staff often to help with personal projects - I don't think I'm stealing resources from it. Did he use money that was truly for his personal gain? Again, where's the proof of clear wrong-doing? We all read that crap article a year ago and it was completely off - and I can personally say that. No one on this board knows the details of any deals he makes.

You keep using your own personal, private business to compare how a Christian University president should conduct themselves. It just isn't a fair comparison.

Your perspective is certinaly a unique one and I do appreciate it. I just don't think it is a fair comparison.

I get that it's different, but there is also a lot of judging going on. I was around and worked directly with Jerry, Senior - he used resources from the University too - should he have been fired too?

[prototype]

Illegal is illegal until proven in a court of law. I'm saying not hearsay, rumors or gossip. If I hired you and fired you because I heard you were selling meth on the side, with no real proof - would you sue me wrongful termination?

I don't know what happened with the pictures of Becki - but that's an issue between Jerry and his wife - not us... That was a private text and almost nothing isn't porn. I sent a picture of my wife in her bathing suit last month to friends...

Again - Big words with no proof of any wrong-doing. Did he have permission to use staff? Is it really stealing? I use my staff often to help with personal projects - I don't think I'm stealing resources from it. Did he use money that was truly for his personal gain? Again, where's the proof of clear wrong-doing? We all read that crap article a year ago and it was completely off - and I can personally say that. No one on this board knows the details of any deals he makes.

You keep using your own personal, private business to compare how a Christian University president should conduct themselves. It just isn't a fair comparison.

Your perspective is certinaly a unique one and I do appreciate it. I just don't think it is a fair comparison.

The great thing about having your whole family work for the University is that you can take them all on the University plane on the University dime for University business to Florida Texas Vegas Hawaii Europe etc

I'm not sure about flights... I do not like that Jerry's kids are in key positions... That does bother me and is a whole different situation. Jerry earned his place there - I'm not sure the other did.

[Just John]

Correct me if I'm wrong. JustJohn posted about the Roys lady ballcoach brought up. Said she was horrible. Reviled he went to Saddleback church for 25 years, and was on staff. Then a short time later deleted and rewrote the post and reversed course on her. I think someone said Roys call out Saddleback during the time period he said he was there. A lot spinning going on here.

I will correct you. Paraphrasing because I cannot remember the exact words now, I wrote that she was of the type of "discernment ministries" that I do not like because they often spread disinformation on many ministries that I specifically know is untrue having seen so many attacks against Saddleback Church (Rick Warren) that I knew were 100% false. I also said "most think John MacArthur is the best thing going". I have no idea if she ever did any articles on Warren/Saddleback. I didn't see it on her site.

Now because of my lengthy history with what is explained above about multiple "discernment ministries", I instinctively wrote this, unfairly, not thoroughly researching her website. Unprompted by anyone here, I went to her site and checked it out more closely and then again, unprompted, within an hour or so, edited my initial post and said I unfairly characterized her. I did say I thought she was "nosy". Still do.

Now you can say this is "spin" all you want. I say it's integrity after making a wrong claim and then correcting it as soon as I knew better.

[TallyW]

I wonder if some of those defending JR also benefit from a business relationship or access to the inner circle and don’t want to see that end.

That alumni letter from pastors and the website are a prime example of what's wrong with this situation. Half of timeline is made up of Jerry's backing of Trump. Like that was wrong. What did you guys want? Him to stand behind Clinton? You might not like Trump, but he will protect Liberty and Liberty's vision more than Clinton, Biden, Obama, etc... Then the rest of it is made up of a bunch or rumors, gossip and assumptions. Jerry, Jr. does not deserve to be treated this way - no human-being does.

Proto, please read the pastors letter again. It's not about Trump. It's not about rumors. It's not about what we don't know. It's not about a billion dollar business.

It's about character. It's about the very mission of the university. It's about upholding a Christian witness. It's about the embarrassment he's bringing on the the current student body, alumni, and even the very concept we heard numerous times from Dr. Falwell: "If it's Christian, it should be better."

It's about the fact that a university and hundreds of thousands of people shouldn't have to answer for so many indiscretions. It's about an unrepentant heart and avoiding even the appearance of evil.

I give it to you, Proto... You're loyal. That's commendable. But at some point that loyalty can blind you to the situation. No one I've spoken to has it out for Jr. In fact, nearly all are broken for him and concerned that his unchecked ego has led to behavior that doesn't show a personal walk with Christ.

This job is not the sum of Jr's existence. He can get help, take some time off, and focus on new ventures ahead. He's an intelligent man with an obvious skill set. It's time to separate the university from Jerry's ego. I mean it humbly and sincerely. The university can continue to thrive and so can Jr. There's no eternal law that requires them to be intertwined.

If the Board does keep him, I pray it's only after an encounter with God, a counselor, and a public repentance equal to the embarrassment he's brought to the school.

Either direction requires something vastly different from what we've seen heretofore.