[Libertine]

Kel:

For all we know, the few token blacks on campus there are nothing more than modern day Uncle Tom's who "know their place" and serve a neccessary purpose for that institution to extend its existence in the contemporary context.

For all we know?! What exactly do we know about the inner workings of the administration of some other school? You're going to pretend to know what opinions they have of their own employees? Unbelievable!
And nice job with the "Uncle Tom" reference, Paradox. I'm not sure which is more offensive, that or actual racism. My utter lack of respect for your opinions has dipped even lower. You're in negative territory with me now, bub.

I'm done with this thread. I'm not sure what purpose a BJU thread ever served on a Liberty board but I'm fairly certain we've surpassed it.

[paradox]

Kel:

For all we know, the few token blacks on campus there are nothing more than modern day Uncle Tom's who "know their place" and serve a neccessary purpose for that institution to extend its existence in the contemporary context.

For all we know?! What exactly do we know about the inner workings of the administration of some other school? You're going to pretend to know what opinions they have of their own employees? Unbelievable!
And nice job with the "Uncle Tom" reference, Paradox. I'm not sure which is more offensive, that or actual racism. My utter lack of respect for your opinions has dipped even lower. You're in negative territory with me now, bub.

I'm done with this thread. I'm not sure what purpose a BJU thread ever served on a Liberty board but I'm fairly certain we've surpassed it.

Wow Libertine, defending BJU!

Sorry you're so offended, but the TRUTH sometimes hurts.

[Libertine]

Yeah, I know I said I was done with this thread. I lied.

Dox, do you even read anything that doesn't have your name in it somewhere? Go back to the first page on this thing. In no way am I or can I defend BJU's policies and I'm not doing that here. I do object, however, when you -- or anyone else, for that matter -- make blatantly offensive generalizations about something that they could not possibly have any clue about. In this case, you pretend to know what people two states away are thinking!!
And you'd be better served not to throw that "the truth hurts" line around here. Most of us here actually passed the 8th grade which is the last time that line had credence in any argument.

[El Scorcho]

Play nice or go home. We already went over this, kids.

That goes for everyone.

Thank you.

[kel varson]

Kel:

It's easy to say all of that, however, until the administrators of that institution make a clear and public denouncement of their misrepresentation of the gospel, then people have a right to be suspicious and concerned. For all we know, the few token blacks on campus there are nothing more than modern day Uncle Tom's who "know their place" and serve a neccessary purpose for that institution to extend its existence in the contemporary context.

misrepresentation of the gospel? please explain...

When you promote blatant legalism and race exclusion, you are undeniably distorting and misrepresenting the gospel of grace.

They no longer promote race exclusion...we've gone over that. As for legalism, its one thing to have rules at a school, (I guess you could say VMI is legalistic too, they have a strict dress code) another thing to say people outside of the school who do this and that are living in sin. I have my doubts that BJU is as legalistic as it used to be. Besides, if those are their convictions, let them live by them, or we are causing them to sin.

[nickrichard]

Besides, if those are their convictions, let them live by them, or we are causing them to sin.

OK, here is a question. If someone causes them to break one of thier convictions, is it still sin, even though it may not be biblical? Using the example of inter-racial marriage. If they were to marry outside their race, would they be living in sin (in thier eyes) even though thier is nothing biblically wrong with this? Guess I never considered this before.

[LUconn]

nah, because then you get into your subjective vs objective. Like on the opposite end of the spectrum, are Muslims sinning by killing infidels? They think God has instructed them to so they do it. They are obeying what they think God told them to do, but they're still sinning.

[paradox]

Kel:

I completely disagree.

Race exclusion is a serious miscomprehension of the gospel. You can't just brush over something like that. This is something that calls for genuine repentence. If BJU was serious about moving on from their ugly history, then they'd publicly declare their wrongdoing and prove their change of heart by making a mends with the black community.


What if BJU turned over a new leaf and offered 1,000 scholarships to underprivliged black students. Would all the whites transfer? What percentage of the alumni would continue to support the school for such an endeavor?

[RagingTireFire]

Play nice or go home. We already went over this, kids.

That goes for everyone.

Thank you.

Come on, Scorcho. This thread is clearly inflammatory and has no LU connection whatsoever, yet you moderator guys leave it up. "Play nice"? Please! This is practically entrapment.

[4everfsu]

This thread is in the right section, the courtyard just like any of the other threads that exist here. Almost every threads in this section has nothing to do with LU. Take it for what it is worth. Just be thankful that you attend LU and not BJU that is all

[El Scorcho]

Come on, Scorcho. This thread is clearly inflammatory and has no LU connection whatsoever, yet you moderator guys leave it up. "Play nice"? Please! This is practically entrapment.

We have never said that "non-inflammatory" or "relevant to LU" were requirements for posting on this board. We have, however, very recently stated that personal attacks will in no way be tolerated. You can argue till you're blue in the face about the policies of Bob Jones University. Debate is healthy. It's when personal attacks come into the picture that we have a problem.

I was just reminding everyone to keep things topical and not let it get personal.

Additionally, I'm not sure how this is even close to entrapment. Entrapment is "a defense that claims the defendant would not have broken the law if not tricked into doing it by law enforcement officials", according to the Princeton WordNet dictionary, anyway. No one is on trial here, and there are no law enforcement officials around, so you might have to clarify that one.

[PeterParker]

Well, maybe a few RA's with a law enforment complex.

[paradox]

Yeah, I know I said I was done with this thread. I lied.

Dox, do you even read anything that doesn't have your name in it somewhere? Go back to the first page on this thing. In no way am I or can I defend BJU's policies and I'm not doing that here. I do object, however, when you -- or anyone else, for that matter -- make blatantly offensive generalizations about something that they could not possibly have any clue about. In this case, you pretend to know what people two states away are thinking!!
And you'd be better served not to throw that "the truth hurts" line around here. Most of us here actually passed the 8th grade which is the last time that line had credence in any argument.

Your small-fry insults only further weaken your lack of argument on this matter.

And yes, you are now defending BJU whether you want to acknowledge that or not.

[paradox]

Kel:

I completely disagree.

Race exclusion is a serious miscomprehension of the gospel. You can't just brush over something like that. This is something that calls for genuine repentence. If BJU was serious about moving on from their ugly history, then they'd publicly declare their wrongdoing and prove their change of heart by making a mends with the black community.


What if BJU turned over a new leaf and offered 1,000 scholarships to underprivliged black students. Would all the whites transfer? What percentage of the alumni would continue to support the school for such an endeavor?

I've noticed that none of the BJU apologists are interested in taking this one on. Perhaps this would be a good place to leave it and cease with the lame excuses for BJU.

[SuperJon]

Perhaps this would be a good place to leave the board and cease with the lame excuses for being an idiot.

Fixed it.

[paradox]

SuperJon:

Wow, man.

Siding with the BJU-ers

Wow, say goodbye to fan of the year.

[paradox]

Kel:

I completely disagree.

Race exclusion is a serious miscomprehension of the gospel. You can't just brush over something like that. This is something that calls for genuine repentence. If BJU was serious about moving on from their ugly history, then they'd publicly declare their wrongdoing and prove their change of heart by making a mends with the black community.


What if BJU turned over a new leaf and offered 1,000 scholarships to underprivliged black students. Would all the whites transfer? What percentage of the alumni would continue to support the school for such an endeavor?

I've noticed that none of the BJU apologists are interested in taking this one on. Perhaps this would be a good place to leave it and cease with the lame excuses for BJU.

[SuperJon]

SuperJon:

Wow, man.

Siding with the BJU-ers

Wow, say goodbye to fan of the year.

I haven't read 3/4 of this thread. I just like making fun of you.

[paradox]

SuperJon:

Yea, I'm sure you good 'ol South Carolinian boys know how to stick together.

[paradox]

Kel:

I completely disagree.

Race exclusion is a serious miscomprehension of the gospel. You can't just brush over something like that. This is something that calls for genuine repentence. If BJU was serious about moving on from their ugly history, then they'd publicly declare their wrongdoing and prove their change of heart by making a mends with the black community.


What if BJU turned over a new leaf and offered 1,000 scholarships to underprivliged black students. Would all the whites transfer? What percentage of the alumni would continue to support the school for such an endeavor?

I've noticed that none of the BJU apologists are interested in taking this one on. Perhaps this would be a good place to leave it and cease with the lame excuses for BJU.

[SuperJon]

Too bad I live two hours from SC.

[belcherboy]

Wow, this has been quite a debatable thread!! I am not a BJU supporter in the least, but I too believe they are slowly making the right changes. The older leaders of the school are slowly becoming irrelevant (due to old age or death). The prejudices and biblical misconceptions seem to be changing as new leadership takes over. As much as they should be criticized for their extremely slow approach at change, they should be praised for making the right changes. I too hope they will one day apologize publicly for ungodly views on race, but some change has been made. Regardless if it were due largely to public criticism and lack of enrollment. As for the other rules, I think it is great that this place exists. There were people I grew up with that needed to attend this type of place because I didn't want them rooming with me or even in my dorm at Liberty. Although it sounds like they could not even come close to a message board like this, let alone a message board period, I would like to hear from BJU students (I've got a girl in my church that just finished one semester there, I'll have to talk to her). I'd like to know whether or not they are still teaching unbiblical racist beliefs. If they have fixed this, what really is the problem? If a university/church wants to teach that anything besides a piano or organ is demonic, IMO they will end up irrelevant after a while. If they want to teach KJV only and all other bibles are from the devil, IMO their time is numbered anyway. Whatever dumb rule/opinion they have, there is probably at least one church in every city with similar beliefs. Probably always will be, but in my area, they are VERY irrelevant. Probably the case for 95% of the rest of America. People still get saved and baptized there, and it is a good thing IMO.

What I'm trying to say is if they are teaching the deity of Jesus Christ and the infallibility of Scripture, I'm glad they are around. There are plenty of other Christian schools that royally screw that aspect up that should receive our condemnation more than BJU or PCC. If they are teaching racist opinions and other anti-biblical garbage, than I hope they fall apart and are embarrassed during the process. I just don't see/hear about it anymore from BJ.

By the way, I thank God all the time for his hand of direction to Liberty in my life over those other schools!!

[thepostman]

wow dox...you love getting under everybody's skin don't you???

[paradox]

Well, Postman, with all of this love and support for BJU, and on the eve of Valentine's Day nonetheless, I'm starting to understand why I don't see eye-to-eye with some of these chaps.

[belcherboy]

Well, Postman, with all of this love and support for BJU, and on the eve of Valentine's Day nonetheless, I'm starting to understand why I don't see eye-to-eye with some of these chaps.

I think I give a little more grace to BJU because of all the anti-Jerry rhetoric I hear all the time now that I'm away from Lynchburg. Jerry has made several offensive statements (some needed to be said, others clearly did not) and gets abused for it in the media. Often everything attached to his name gets the same treatment. If he makes a negative statement about homosexuality, his school and those whose support him or his ministries are labeled as individuals who hate homo's. We get lumped into the Rev. Phelps crowd at times. The critics are often people who know little to nothing about Dr. Falwell and even less about the university they criticize. I hate to see another institution that has clearly made some mistakes, continue to get abused after it has changed its policies. You may indeed be right and the university is filled with bigots and racists, but I'm only aware, at this time, that they have made policy changes in the right direction. I just want to give them credit for that. My 2 cents anyway. Even so, I would probably never recommend someone to go there. But that is only because I feel they are just way too strict.