[Purple Haize]

Hope and Change was a classic campaign slogan. Great piece of work. What I opposed was Obama saying he wanted to Fundamentally Change America. Which is a No from me. And also spurred Make America Great Again. 2 masterful pieces of campaign marketing

[thepostman]

Yeah. I'm over masterful pieces of campaign marketing. They are cute and all but mean nothing.

I'm glad you're coming around on the fact that Trump is just like every other politician. All talk and no substance. You didn't say it but you didn't have to

[Purple Haize]

Yeah. I'm over masterful pieces of campaign marketing. They are cute and all but mean nothing.

I'm glad you're coming around on the fact that Trump is just like every other politician. All talk and no substance. You didn't say it but you didn't have to

Ha. He is different in that he’d like to get crap done. He’s just finding out how nearly impossible it is. That’s why I was hopeful for a House flip for a second term.

[Jonathan Carone]

So... federal law enforcement and secret (federal) police operating in cities across the country now. How we justifying this one?

[Purple Haize]

So... federal law enforcement and secret (federal) police operating in cities across the country now. How we justifying this one?

The headlines are of course over blown but it is something to keep an eye on.
The Federal Government has a right to protect Federal property. Especially if local municipalities do not. I do worry that it will become more however the Municipalities need to get over themselves and do their job.

[Jonathan Carone]

So non-uniformed police in Portland are okay?

[Purple Haize]

So non-uniformed police in Portland are okay?

You’ll have to be more specific. Secret Service FBI DEA all have plain clothes officers. Just about every police department at every level has non uniformed officers

[TH Spangler]

So non-uniformed police in Portland are okay?

You’ll have to be more specific. Secret Service FBI DEA all have plain clothes officers. Just about every police department at every level has non uniformed officers

Its probably better for the protesters than the bikers showing up to put out the fires.

[Purple Haize]

I’m just hard pressed to find any example of what we are seeing from local officials regarding federal property. I mean Ft Sumpter was kind of a big deal. Eisenhower sent in the 101st to Little Rock to enforce a Federal Law. Elian Gonzalez in Miami. If a Mayor of Governor isn’t going to protect those things and those people (and even explicitly say they won’t) what recourse is there? We have Federal Agencies that perform policing functions across State Lines so they have that capacity.
Yes it’s easy to think this could morph into Midnight raids snatching undesirables from their mother’s basement, we’ve seen too many movies that condition us that way. Plus, the Federal Government doesn’t have the best track record. Hey if these kids and their moms and dads want to riot go right ahead, but understand there will be consequences. My suggestion would be to destroy municipal property because the mayors have already indicated they will not protect it. That takes the Feds out of the equation

[Jonathan Carone]

My issue comes in federal officers with little urban policing training showing up in unmarked vehicles and unmarked military uniforms grabbing and arresting people.

If you’re going to do this in the name of law and order - ok. But put names of your organization on the uniforms so people can see and understand who it is that is arresting them. Generic military fatigues are going to cause even more unrest because of the paranoia of not knowing who it is.

[Purple Haize]

My issue comes in federal officers with little urban policing training showing up in unmarked vehicles and unmarked military uniforms grabbing and arresting people.

If you’re going to do this in the name of law and order - ok. But put names of your organization on the uniforms so people can see and understand who it is that is arresting them. Generic military fatigues are going to cause even more unrest because of the paranoia of not knowing who it is.

The guys I saw in the fatigues had patches identifying their agency. I’m not sure why the hang up on marked v unmarked cars. What’s the big deal? People get arrested and put in unmarked cars all the time. Further, given the rioters penchant for burning police cars it’s probably a safer more practical way to maneuver. These individuals being detained and arrested know why and are being processed by all accounts in a legal manner. It is something that is a thin line but as of now, I got nothing. If local authorities would do their job this wouldn’t be happening
You have failed to acknowledge that these federal agents are there because of the violence and destruction caused by the crowds. If these were peaceful marches and assemblies I doubt that this would be an issue. But how long has this gone on in Portland where the troops are? 50 consecutive nights?

Portland’s mayor should have learned from Minneapolis. He will not be able to appease these people

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/0 ... bed-video/

[Jonathan Carone]

I thought it’s been established on here over and over that destroying property is wrong. That’s an understood. I didn’t realize I had to mention that every time.

The hang up on unmarked vans is because the military fatigues were unmarked as well. If the fatigues were tagged then the unmarked car wouldn’t be nearly as big of a deal.

[olldflame]

I thought it’s been established on here over and over that destroying property is wrong. That’s an understood. I didn’t realize I had to mention that every time.

The hang up on unmarked vans is because the military fatigues were unmarked as well. If the fatigues were tagged then the unmarked car wouldn’t be nearly as big of a deal.

Homeland Security briefing on Portland. The uniforms worn by the various officers are shown and explained starting at 14:15. The idea that anyone would not know who they are is ludicrous.

Names on the uniforms have been replaced by ID numbers because officers were being Doxed.

[Jonathan Carone]

The doxing is ridiculous. I'm all for reform and protesting but families should not be brought into it. I'm totally okay with uniform numbers instead of names.

The photos in this video are different than the ones going around from the first nights of federal presence in Portland.

As for it being ridiculous people wouldn't know who they are:

When it's night time and men in military fatigues jump out of unmarked cars in the United States, that's different than anything we've ever seen. No one is expecting that. The people who have most often wore fatigues in these situations in the past were civilian militia groups who try to do their own protecting. Our riot police and local officers generally don't wear fatigues and it's ingrained in our culture what they look like.

When you're in camouflage with small patches and it's dark outside, it's absolutely possible to be confused as to who is coming after you.

[Purple Haize]

The doxing is ridiculous. I'm all for reform and protesting but families should not be brought into it. I'm totally okay with uniform numbers instead of names.

The photos in this video are different than the ones going around from the first nights of federal presence in Portland.

As for it being ridiculous people wouldn't know who they are:

When it's night time and men in military fatigues jump out of unmarked cars in the United States, that's different than anything we've ever seen. No one is expecting that. The people who have most often wore fatigues in these situations in the past were civilian militia groups who try to do their own protecting. Our riot police and local officers generally don't wear fatigues and it's ingrained in our culture what they look like.

When you're in camouflage with small patches and it's dark outside, it's absolutely possible to be confused as to who is coming after you.

You know any friends in law enforcement? Officers in fatigues jump out of unmarked cars quite often. It’s not unprecedented.
What is unprecedented is local officials actively participating and encouraging the destruction of federal property and actively suing to allow it to continue.

[olldflame]

I suppose you could make an argument (although a pretty lame one) that the rioters did not know who the federal officers were the first time they showed up. To suggest at this point that anyone is actually afraid they are being "kidnapped" by some sort of KKK militia is really disingenuous. Besides the uniforms, I think it's also pretty safe to say that when they actually arrest someone, they are also identifying themselves verbally.

[Jonathan Carone]

I never said KKK militia. That's you inferring something I didn't imply. There are plenty of militia groups who aren't race related who show up at events to "protect" or "help" the local law enforcement.

And you're right - at this point it's obvious who is doing this. I think it's a massive governmental overreach - something conservatives used to believe in too - but it's been announced who they are and the secrecy has been taken away to an extent.

For a group of people who are extremely cautious to believe the federal government on 99% of issues, this seems like a strange place to trust them.

[Purple Haize]

You have not shown how this is a Government overreach. Just saying it doesn’t make it true. Every one of the points you brought up have been refuted. These are federal troops protecting federal property because local governments actively will not. If you have a better solution you have yet to propose it

[Jonathan Carone]

I'm not a fan of Rand Paul, but when he's saying it's too much, you start to think it might be:

As for other things, I'll let those better apt at describing the reasoning than me explain:

At the center of his strategy is a willingness to deploy U.S. border and immigration enforcement agents on American streets, relying on agents who are accustomed to operating at airports and border crossings where they are generally subject to fewer constraints than ordinary police officers. The fact that many of those officers are not accustomed to dealing with urban unrest, analysts said, is also problematic.

“It increases the danger both for the law enforcement officers and for the civilian population when you have law enforcement agents who are not trained in a particular duty being asked to perform that duty,” said Jonathan Meyer, a former DHS lawyer now in private practice at Sheppard Mullin.

Those specialized teams are among the most “heavily militarized” components in federal law enforcement, normally assigned to “engage in low-grade warfare against heavily armed narco-terrorists,” said Paul Rosenzweig, a former DHS official who now works as a senior fellow at the R Street Institute.

“I think it is not illegal, but it is an expansion of mission and what I would characterize as a misapplication of authority,” Rosenzweig said. “So make it lawful but awful.”

“It [DHS] was not established to be the president’s personal militia,” Tom Ridge, the former Pennsylvania governor who served as the country’s first homeland security secretary under George W. Bush sad. “I wish the president would take a more collaborative approach toward fighting this lawlessness than the unilateral approach he’s taken.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... ts-wrapper

[Purple Haize]

Then maybe local authorities should do their job? The descriptions of what they are and are not good at or trained to do isnt wrong. But there currently aren’t many other options. It’s certainly better than having an Infantry Brigade dropped in.
Rand Paul has been on a lifelong demilitarization of Police campaign so that’s not surprising

[olldflame]

With all due respect to Mr. Ridge, Collaborative with who? Ideally this should have been a joint effort between Portland police and Oregon National Guard. The mayor and Governor want nothing of it.

[Purple Haize]

Exactly. I would feel so much more comfortable if this were being handle as it should. But it’s purposely not being handled that was by State and local authorities. So the next option is what we have currently. Options after this will only be worse

[RubberMallet]

one of my lifelong friends has worked for the city of portland for the past 4 years. he's like what we aren't seeing is "protestors" are DESTROYING the city. like literally ripping it to shreds. the only think we see are these "unmarked" officers making arrests. My guess is they are very strategic arrests on very specific people. you can tell on the videos they walk past other protestors, specifically targeting individual protestors.

[Purple Haize]

No Republican Convention in Jax. Shrewd move to destroy the narrative.
Biden may actually make it to Election Day without actually campaigning

[TH Spangler]

Biden may actually make it to Election Day without actually campaigning

Will there be enough suburban women and men that Identify as suburban women to get him over the hump.