[bigsmooth]

sounds like to me you are condoning racism.

[kel varson]

explain that kel. i have real experiences from friends of mine that went there, and they are not good

Explain what, about them not being racist? I just know people that went there, so I have my doubts. Besides, a ban on interracial dating may be a bit old fashioned, but I wouldn't call it racist.

[kel varson]

To be clear, I am not against racial dating. Nor do I think BJU should (and now they do not have a rule against it) have a rule against it. There was a time, 10-20 years ago, especially in the south, where interracial dating could cause a lot of problems.

[bigsmooth]

sure its racist! tell me in the bible where it says that it is wrong. let me tell you scar and his wife are good christian peole, but in the eyes of a lot of BJU people they are "unequally yoked", and looked down on. it is not the color of your skin which detemines anything. you must not be black and have no clue what racism really is.

[bigsmooth]

btw. im not saying you are racist kel , but the underlying tone of BJU and the rules will always be there, and the old schoolers from that school will still have that thought.

[kel varson]

btw. im not saying you are racist kel , but the underlying tone of BJU and the rules will always be there, and the old schoolers from that school will still have that thought.

Sure, there probably are some old timers their who believe that. I would guess the same is true for Liberty, but that doesn't make it a racist school. People over the age of say 60 have some pretty antiquated opinions. I certaily don't agree with them, one of my best friends is black and is wife is white, I don't have a problem with it. I just think there are some fine people at BJU and they would object to you calling the school racist--as do I. Further, I don't think John McCain who's running for President, would think of speaking at a racist school.

[Libertine]

Wait, wait, wait, wait! McCain is speaking at BJU?! Because, I remember back in 2000 when GWB spoke there, McCain was the first guy in line to rip him a new one for speaking at a "racist" school! That's funny...and pathetic.

[bigsmooth]

point taken kel, but i will dare say that there are more antiquated views there than progressive views, and i will stand by what i said because of the experiences i have had with people from that school. you sound like a BJU apologist.

[paradox]

Without a doubt, BJU's history is the ugly side of religion. It is the cheap imitation, laced in southern prejudice, and not the genuine article. It's legalistic structure and false views on race are both reprehensible and anti-biblical. It is a throughly unhealthy environment on many levels.

[TIMSCAR20]

Wow Kel, how can you say that BJU is not racist? Because being racist is not as acceptable as it once was? Any policy on race that implies blacks are inferior or not worthy of being with whites particularly in an intimate relationship is racist. They didn't ban interracial dating to "protect the saftey of the off spring or the couple. They banned it because they deem blacks as inferior and unclean. I know dozens of BJ grads and I spent a full school week there and I am convinced it was one of the most racist environments I have ever seen. Just because you think there are good folks down there does not mean they are not racist. Good people can be wrong about things too Kel. If you have any policy that excludes any race, it pretty much has racist over/undertones. It can be rationalized but that doesn't make it right or biblical.

[bigsmooth]

AMEN!!!!

[4everfsu]

I can say back in 1971 BJ was a racist school. When you have a dorm room with one from Toronto Canada and one from PA and three guys from the south, one from Ga, one from Al and one from Fl(me). You would think if anyone was againist letting black students in it would be us guys from the south. Wrong! It was the guys from the North who thought BJ should not open it doors to black, us guys from the south thought we should let blacks in. I thought black churches would need trained black pastors, but what did I know.
There was even one yankee from NJ who thought blacks came from apes, I thought he was kidding but he was dead serious and thought again black should not be allow into BJ.
And I always heard that the south was racist, but going to BJ it sure opened my eyes.
Is BJ a racist school today? I have no ideal and cannot say as I am not there or know anyone there.

[kel varson]

Wow Kel, how can you say that BJU is not racist? Because being racist is not as acceptable as it once was? Any policy on race that implies blacks are inferior or not worthy of being with whites particularly in an intimate relationship is racist. They didn't ban interracial dating to "protect the saftey of the off spring or the couple. They banned it because they deem blacks as inferior and unclean. I know dozens of BJ grads and I spent a full school week there and I am convinced it was one of the most racist environments I have ever seen. Just because you think there are good folks down there does not mean they are not racist. Good people can be wrong about things too Kel. If you have any policy that excludes any race, it pretty much has racist over/undertones. It can be rationalized but that doesn't make it right or biblical.

You guys have you're opinions and I totally understand. You are closer to the school than I am. I just hate to see Christian schools trash each other when it is not warranted. If it is warranted than so be it...I don't know.
Scar, you probably have not been on the campus in over 20 years. Did BJU change their policies because racism is no longer acceptable. I don't know. If they banned interracial dating because the felt black's were inferior than that is indeed disgusting and horrific. I think Christians make mistakes. There will no doubt be Christians in heaven who owned slaves. While I feel that is criminal, that too was part of the old south.

How long will everyone hold this agains BJU? Another 20 years? Do they deserve that?

We've forgiven Dr. Falwell, and we know his past with regard to race relations.

Oh, here's the link about John McCain saying he would consider speaking at Bob Jones. http://mediamatters.org/items/200701160009

According to Wikipedia, and this is cited, Bob Jones has staff members who are interracially married.
Interesting article called "Being Black at Bob Jones."
http://www.killingthebuddha.com/dang_na ... bjones.htm

[El Scorcho]

I can't speak about racism at BJU, but I can certainly speak to the fact that they're sleeping FIVE people to a room. Ouch!

Features: 5 bunks, 1 sink, 2 desks and chairs, 1 phone, over-head and hanging closet space, built-in drawer space, fully carpeted floors, air conditioning/heating, and computer connections to the campus network.

http://www.bju.edu/campus/life/rh.html

[paradox]

Kel:

It's easy to say all of that, however, until the administrators of that institution make a clear and public denouncement of their misrepresentation of the gospel, then people have a right to be suspicious and concerned. For all we know, the few token blacks on campus there are nothing more than modern day Uncle Tom's who "know their place" and serve a neccessary purpose for that institution to extend its existence in the contemporary context.

[El Scorcho]

After a twelve-year legal battle with the IRS, the Supreme Court removed Bob Jones University's tax-exempt status.

http://www.bju.edu/about/history/gville3.html

Anyone know why this happened? I know there are a lot of locals who think LU and TRBC shouldn't be tax-exempt. I'm just wondering what the background is.

[flameshaw]

BJU only changed thier racial policies becuase they were threatened with their tax exempt status, finally allowing blacks in in the 70's and then they had to be married (one would guess this was because they would still live off campus). They finally let single black people in about 6 years later. Only when Larry King had the 3rd on his show about 10 years ago, and they were shamed into it, did they allow interracial dating. Personally, I believe without this pressure, they would have never allowed minorities in, or allowed dating.

I have heard Sr. Jr. and the 3rd speak, know literally hundreds of former students, been to the campus and I will always believe they are regressive on many fronts, but especially race. Besides that in the early 70's they call Jerry the "most dangerous man in America", because he dared to start a Christian University that would compete with their loser school. Don't mess with Jerry.

BJ has become totally irrevelant and is now grasping at straws to jump start the stagnant enrollment for the last several years. As a result they are trying to be less legalistic, but it may be too little too late. (not speaking about racial matters here).

The pastor, where I went to church when I was a kid was responsible for sending 100's of kids to BJU. His daughter went to BJ for one semester. He came to visit her and they would not let him take her off the campus for dinner. Can you imagine? She told me she knew she was not going back about the end of October, but would not tell anyone because she feared retribution for her decision to leave. So when she went home for Christmas, she just didn't come back. There is something wrong with this picture.

I have more stories, but I am tired and upset we lost the BB game tonight, so I will sign off for now.

[El Scorcho]

Jackpot! I found the student expectations section.

Ladies and gentlemen, I now present to you, Student BJ Expectations...

In the interest of stewardship we do not print extra handbooks to give out before students arrive on campus, but we do want you to get a flavor of the expectations at BJU. The following material is excerpted from the handbook to give you an idea of what is expected of you as a student at BJU.

Translated: If you knew all of the rules before you came, you probably wouldn't come.

Our handbook policies promote personal and social orderliness in an educational, resident setting. (They teach what placing others first looks like on this campus.) In addition, they promote holy living by removing as much as possible the influences of worldliness and evil from a student's life while he learns to walk in the Spirit.

Translated: You'll be on lockdown.

Dating and Mixed Groups - We want students to have wholesome social opportunities in a setting that provides accountability for biblical requirements of purity. It is with this in mind that we chaperon campus activities where men and women students are present and require a chaperon when students date or interact in a mixed group off campus.

Translated: You will not interact with a woman your age one-on-one for the next four to five years.

Work - Freshmen and sophomores may not use their vehicles to go to and from work. Students may not serve alcoholic beverages when waiting tables at restaurants. Students may not do house-to-house sales anywhere in the Greenville area. Students offering services to the community must have a retail license or have clearance from the Dean of Students to do door-to-door solicitation for their services. Students may not miss nightly prayer meetings on weekdays.

And I repeat, LOCKDOWN.

What Not to Bring -

Posters of movie and music stars and fashion models are not permitted. The subjects of personal photos should exhibit the modesty and appropriate physical contact we expect from our students.

Music must be compatible with the University's music standards: New Age, jazz, rock, and country music is not permitted. Contemporary Christian music is not permitted (e.g., Michael W. Smith, Stephen Curtis Chapman, WOW Worship, and so forth).

Televisions and DVD/videocassette players are not permitted in the residence halls; computer DVD players may not be used to view movies.

You may not possess or play computer and video games rated T, M, or A or having elements of blood and gore, sensual or demonic themes, or featuring suggestive dress, bad language, or rock music.

Residence hall students may not watch videos above a G rating when visiting homes in town and may not attend movie theaters.

Trasnlated: Welcome to the wonderful world of Disney.

And finally, computer access...

An email account is provided for each student. Due to the flood of objectionable content coming through outside email services, students may use only this filtered campus email system. All wireless access to the Internet is forbidden since all Internet use must go through the University's filtered access.

http://www.bju.edu/prospective/expect/
http://www.bju.edu/prospective/expect/general.html
http://www.bju.edu/prospective/expect/dress.html
http://www.bju.edu/prospective/expect/rhall.html

[ATrain]

Upon reviewing that, I give myself half-a-day at BJU.

[flameshaw]

10 minutes max for me.

[kel varson]

Kel:

It's easy to say all of that, however, until the administrators of that institution make a clear and public denouncement of their misrepresentation of the gospel, then people have a right to be suspicious and concerned. For all we know, the few token blacks on campus there are nothing more than modern day Uncle Tom's who "know their place" and serve a neccessary purpose for that institution to extend its existence in the contemporary context.

misrepresentation of the gospel? please explain...

[Realist]

Holy Crap.

I think I just broke at least 4 rules while sitting here on the internet and preparing for work tomorrow.

[Sly Fox]

And I have ZERO interest in learning which four.

[JDUB]

i'm pretty sure i'd be expelled before i made it to my dorm room

[paradox]

Kel:

It's easy to say all of that, however, until the administrators of that institution make a clear and public denouncement of their misrepresentation of the gospel, then people have a right to be suspicious and concerned. For all we know, the few token blacks on campus there are nothing more than modern day Uncle Tom's who "know their place" and serve a neccessary purpose for that institution to extend its existence in the contemporary context.

misrepresentation of the gospel? please explain...

When you promote blatant legalism and race exclusion, you are undeniably distorting and misrepresenting the gospel of grace.