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#603249
Purple Haize wrote: July 2nd, 2020, 6:36 pm
So your saying the solution is to have a Social Worker force that can respond 24/7 at a moment’s notice ? This is a great example of something that looks good on paper but will fail miserably in practice.
No, what I am saying is depending more on social workers to help correct issues as opposed to throwing everybody in Jail. Divert money used to militarize to increase fhe training budget and police pay/benefits to attract higher caliber police officers and also invest in disadvantaged neighborhoods.

I have a ton of thoughts but admit I am awful at putting those thoughts in writing.

Regardless, we can spitball ideas all day long, it is meaningless because our justice system is beyond repair at this point so we can change how we police and it still won't matter.

I don’t have all the answers and don't pretend to but some great conversations that are happening right now involving much smarter people than I and I hope that can spark some change. They are much more qualified than me. I'm just some guy who mashes a keyboard all day configuring routers and switches.
Purple Haize liked this
#603259
thepostman wrote: July 2nd, 2020, 11:22 am @TH Spangler, I can't speak for the other branches, but the Air Force officers mentioned in this article that were removed from their positions were removed for very legit reasons. That alone makes it difficult to take that article seriously.
Interesting......"Sen. Tammy Duckworth, D-Ill., on Thursday announced her intention to block Senate confirmations for 1,123 senior U.S. Armed Forces promotions until Defense Secretary Mark Esper confirms he will not block the "expected and deserved" promotion of Army Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/duckwo ... e-promoted
#603263
thepostman wrote: July 2nd, 2020, 7:02 pm
Purple Haize wrote: July 2nd, 2020, 6:36 pm
So your saying the solution is to have a Social Worker force that can respond 24/7 at a moment’s notice ? This is a great example of something that looks good on paper but will fail miserably in practice.
No, what I am saying is depending more on social workers to help correct issues as opposed to throwing everybody in Jail. Divert money used to militarize to increase fhe training budget and police pay/benefits to attract higher caliber police officers and also invest in disadvantaged neighborhoods.

I have a ton of thoughts but admit I am awful at putting those thoughts in writing.

Regardless, we can spitball ideas all day long, it is meaningless because our justice system is beyond repair at this point so we can change how we police and it still won't matter.

I don’t have all the answers and don't pretend to but some great conversations that are happening right now involving much smarter people than I and I hope that can spark some change. They are much more qualified than me. I'm just some guy who mashes a keyboard all day configuring routers and switches.
No, I get it. I’m just putting out there that in the conversation people are saying Social Workers not Police. Police aren’t trained to be Social workers etc. But they offer no solution. The vast majority of the time a police Officer shows up the time for a social worker is past. Or future. But in that moment not so much. Domestic abuse Child Abuse. Suicide. Drug overdose. Drug crazed rampage. Yep. They probably need a long term solution that isn’t jail. But at the time the wife is getting smacked around, or a person is standing naked wheeling a machete calling 911 for a social worker isn’t going to get it done.
#603273
My understanding of the social worker argument is if we had better funded social programs, that would cut down the occurrences of non-violent issues where police are called. So it wouldn’t be social workers responding to crazy guy with a machete. It’d social workers doing day to day work so hopefully crazy guy never whips outs his machete.

Like Posty, I don’t know all the details but I’m willing to listen to the conversations because I know things as they are right now are broken. I can’t get behind the idea that because super progressives are pitching it then it’s all automatically terrible. Parts of it absolutely are terrible (i.e. all cops are bad, abolish police, etc), but there are ideas within that could be fleshed out that wouldn’t be bad. I’m willing to entertain the ideas.
#603274
Jonathan Carone wrote: July 2nd, 2020, 10:06 pm My understanding of the social worker argument is if we had better funded social programs, that would cut down the occurrences of non-violent issues where police are called. So it wouldn’t be social workers responding to crazy guy with a machete. It’d social workers doing day to day work so hopefully crazy guy never whips outs his machete.

Like Posty, I don’t know all the details but I’m willing to listen to the conversations because I know things as they are right now are broken. I can’t get behind the idea that because super progressives are pitching it then it’s all automatically terrible. Parts of it absolutely are terrible (i.e. all cops are bad, abolish police, etc), but there are ideas within that could be fleshed out that wouldn’t be bad. I’m willing to entertain the ideas.
Again, great idea on paper. But the implementation is just going to be impossible. It’s not like we don’t have social workers now. Does anyone think CPS is what we want to model?
#603282
No because the whole system is broken. Nothing we see today should be what is emulated. There needs to be real change. Something new. I just wish I knew what that was. But what is happening now, our over booked court systems, our crowded prisons and our over worked police officers is not helping anything.

Trump has actually done a good job on the prison reform problem but that is only part of a bigger problem.
ATrain liked this
#603284
thepostman wrote: July 2nd, 2020, 10:54 pm No because the whole system is broken. Nothing we see today should be what is emulated. There needs to be real change. Something new. I just wish I knew what that was. But what is happening now, our over booked court systems, our crowded prisons and our over worked police officers is not helping anything.

Trump has actually done a good job on the prison reform problem but that is only part of a bigger problem.
Human nature. That’s the “problem”. You can’t fix the problem until you have a stated goal and an honest look at what the root issues are. Institutions and Governments are made up of people who are not for the most part benevolent Obviously your criminals aren’t going for humanitarian awards either.
#603291
So do we not try? Sure it’ll be hard and whatever the new things are might fail, but given the brokenness of the current system, is the risk of new ideas that might fail worth the possibility of improving what’s already failing?

I ask that honestly, not in a gotcha way. There are two ways at looking at new things:

“Well the problem with that is...” - that points out all the issues before you can even try something.

“Well what if...” - that imagines what could be first.

I am the second. My nature is to brainstorm and try and come up with ideas before tearing them apart. I totally understand the other mindset, I just don’t view the world that way.
#603300
Well, the date the left-wing vandals said they would topple the Lincoln statue in DC has come and gone and......................... crickets. I wonder why?

Stand up to these hooligans and they will melt away like the cowards they are.

IMHO the next step should be order every one of the statues that have been toppled restored, regardless of who it is Then those who think some of them, like the confederate generals, should be removed, can lobby for it through te political process.
Purple Haize liked this
#603305
I really wish we would get away from focusing so much on far right and far left groups. It makes it nearly impossible for the real conversations to take place.

But I do agree, if one wants to see something removed or added to public space, they should lobby for it the right way. I know it seems the left is all for just destroying these things but it is because that is all the media shows us. I'm sure if a poll was taken, the left would overwhelmingly be for the LEGAL removal of monuments no the illegal removal.

I think all statues are dumb anyways because it has always seemed borderline idolatrous to me but I know I am in the minority on that one.
flamehunter, ATrain liked this
#603307
olldflame wrote: July 3rd, 2020, 10:05 am Well, the date the left-wing vandals said they would topple the Lincoln statue in DC has come and gone and......................... crickets. I wonder why?

Stand up to these hooligans and they will melt away like the cowards they are.

IMHO the next step should be order every one of the statues that have been toppled restored, regardless of who it is Then those who think some of them, like the confederate generals, should be removed, can lobby for it through te political process.
I think you touch on a crux of the issue. Enforcement. We currently don’t really have it. Certainly not consistently. I’d like to see fewer laws and harsher enforcement for violating them. HOWEVER always allow for an avenue of grace.
Drugs are a great example. I’m more for legalizing them as I get older. But you commit a crime while on drugs or in the pursuit of drugs harsh penalty. But let’s say this act was your “rock bottom”. Ok, second chance. Rehab and if you mess up again jail.
However you will then have those saying “but they are addicts not violent”. Fine. Put them in a different group setting to deal with their addiction. But alas, addicts are gonna addict unless they initiate the change. So now you have a facility with a whole bunch of addicts. Do you continue to supply them? How do you pay for it? What are their living conditions like? Certainly not good enough for some public advocacy group. So now you are right back where you started.

I’m all for “what if we did this instead”. I never complain unless I have a solution. In this case my solution would most likely run counter to prevailing thought.
olldflame liked this
#603310
thepostman wrote: July 3rd, 2020, 10:33 am
I think all statues are dumb anyways because it has always seemed borderline idolatrous to me but I know I am in the minority on that one.
I'm with you on that. Same for the absolute zeal so many Christians have for the flag. I've seen "Christians" say they would kill for desecrating the flag. Really?? I love this country and appreciate what those who went before us sacrificed to allow our freedoms we have but the devotion to the flag comes because they don't recognize appropriately the One who really gave us our freedoms, whether it's in the USA or a communist hole somewhere.
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#603325
Purple Haize wrote: July 3rd, 2020, 10:58 am I never complain unless I have a solution. In this case my solution would most likely run counter to prevailing thought.
I understand this line of thinking and was actually taught it growing up. However, as I’ve gained some experience in the creative world, I’ve learned there’s a place for people who can see a problem and point it out even before they have the solution. Those people have to be willing to work towards the solution and can’t just be fire starters though. When done well, these people are the ones who can pull out ideas from multiple lines of thinking and bridge them together for a solution.
#603341
I saw this quote in an article written by a black author. When you start digging into BLM you start turning up some pretty questionable names.

There is probably no poverty pimp that is lower than a leech. This type of hustler wants to suck up as much money as he/she can within a very short period. These guys are found all over the nation and many try to camouflage themselves by “representing” a nonprofit. As they demand money from reputable corporations who provide products and services to the public and create jobs by the thousands. They have no shame whatsoever. It is like a soft robbery. When they succeed there is damage to sincere groups trying to protect the under-served or under-represented. Money given to them is the money that was formerly earmarked for the community. That is where the damage is done.
Susan Rosenburg is with BLM. Rosenberg was active in the far-left revolutionary terrorist May 19th Communist Organization, which engaged in bombings of buildings and provided support to the Black Liberation Army.[1] After living as a fugitive for two years, she was arrested in 1984 while in possession of explosives and firearms. She had also been sought as an accomplice in the 1979 prison escape of Assata Shakur and was suspected but never charged in the 1981 Brink's robbery that led to the death of two guards and a police officer.[2]

Rosenberg was sentenced to 58 years in prison on the weapons and explosives charges. She spent 16 years in prison, during which she became a poet, author and AIDS activist. Her sentence was commuted by President Bill Clinton on January 20, 2001, his final day in office.[3][4]

As of 2020, Rosenberg sits as vice chair of the board of Thousand Currents, a foundation- and contribution-funded international grant-making charitable organization which supports grassroots organizations in the "Global South" [21] as well as acting as a fiscal sponsor of the Black Lives Matter Global Network.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Rosenberg
#603356
olldflame wrote: July 3rd, 2020, 10:05 am
...Stand up to these hooligans and they will melt away like the cowards they are....
Boom! The bad actors are finding out after the fact that their violence and looting was/will not be ignored. Though it has the potential to be big brotherish if used in the wrong way, I think that deployment of high resolution drones would act as a deterrence to damage and looting.
#603374
thepostman wrote: June 22nd, 2020, 6:46 pm I also believe God's word and studied enough church and Christian history to know that people have been claiming the end times since shortly after Jesus ascened into heaven.

I'm all for being aware of what is going on but there is danger in trying to fit every world event in the revelation prophecy.

Also trying to paint every racial issue into some Marxist ploy to take over the world is an old tactic used by people who are simply afraid of change. That is the conspiracy theory I was talking about.

There is also plenty of smart people who interpret Revelation much differently because Revelation is not a straight forward book for a reason. A lot of time and energy is waisted by good people on that stuff.
The FBI tried like hell to paint all of the leaders of the Civil Rights Movement of the 50s and 60s as Marxists, going so far as to assassinate numerous people then covering it up and planting fake evidence to make it seem justified.

We all know how that eventually turned out.
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