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If roundball is your blood, this is the place to discuss the Flames as they move into the Ritchie McKay era for the 2nd time.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

User avatar
By Ill flame
Posts
#600667
Purple Haize wrote: May 21st, 2020, 9:53 am It seems to me that it isn’t either 9000 seats or 4000 seats. It seems a lot of people are in agreement (not you roger3 but you make great points) that a number between those would be better. I thought it was originally supposed to be 5kish which seemed about right. However, I don’t have access to attendance numbers etc to determine the rolling averages. I feel confident the vast majority think the Vines was too big and a good number think this is too small. Sounds like a children’s story with porridge or something
Attendance over last 10 years (# of games)
2010: 2,674 (14)
2011: 2,819 (16)
2012: 1,515 (17)
2013: 2,156 (15)
2014: 2,482 (15)
2015: 2,515 (14)
2016: 2,058 (19)
2017: 2,044 (21)
2018: 2,985 (18)
2019: 4,727 (17)

10 year average= 2,597.5
5 year average = 2,865.8

[http://www.ncaa.org/championships/stati ... attendance]
By LUOrange
Posts
#600669
I've said this a few times to the chagrin of several of you, but IMO, the Arena is too small for MBB. It's adequate for while we're in the ASUN and if we're going to remain there, even if it's in the middle of the pack capacity wise in the ASUN. Hopefully, the long tearm plan is to move MBB is to move back to the Vines if attendance picks up and when we make it to a much better conference.
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#600670
Ill flame wrote: May 21st, 2020, 12:21 pm
Purple Haize wrote: May 21st, 2020, 9:53 am It seems to me that it isn’t either 9000 seats or 4000 seats. It seems a lot of people are in agreement (not you roger3 but you make great points) that a number between those would be better. I thought it was originally supposed to be 5kish which seemed about right. However, I don’t have access to attendance numbers etc to determine the rolling averages. I feel confident the vast majority think the Vines was too big and a good number think this is too small. Sounds like a children’s story with porridge or something
Attendance over last 10 years (# of games)
2010: 2,674 (14)
2011: 2,819 (16)
2012: 1,515 (17)
2013: 2,156 (15)
2014: 2,482 (15)
2015: 2,515 (14)
2016: 2,058 (19)
2017: 2,044 (21)
2018: 2,985 (18)
2019: 4,727 (17)

10 year average= 2,597.5
5 year average = 2,865.8

[http://www.ncaa.org/championships/stati ... attendance]
When these plans were originally made, the 4000 number made sense. But the jump by nearly 2000 people last year after an NCAA tournament run is the part we couldn't account for.

The two year average is 3856. There's no room to grow from here size wise. Engagement wise can absolutely grow.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#600672
Ill flame wrote: May 21st, 2020, 12:21 pm
Purple Haize wrote: May 21st, 2020, 9:53 am It seems to me that it isn’t either 9000 seats or 4000 seats. It seems a lot of people are in agreement (not you roger3 but you make great points) that a number between those would be better. I thought it was originally supposed to be 5kish which seemed about right. However, I don’t have access to attendance numbers etc to determine the rolling averages. I feel confident the vast majority think the Vines was too big and a good number think this is too small. Sounds like a children’s story with porridge or something
Attendance over last 10 years (# of games)
2010: 2,674 (14)
2011: 2,819 (16)
2012: 1,515 (17)
2013: 2,156 (15)
2014: 2,482 (15)
2015: 2,515 (14)
2016: 2,058 (19)
2017: 2,044 (21)
2018: 2,985 (18)
2019: 4,727 (17)

10 year average= 2,597.5
5 year average = 2,865.8

[http://www.ncaa.org/championships/stati ... attendance]
Thank you for that. I’d be interested to see by how much the numbers jump if you take out the handful of games over Holidays and the non D1’s.
If 2019 was an outlier than the 4K number seems reasonable. If you think it’s not going to be an outlier you are going to have problems. If you believe that “atmosphere” can affect attendance then you are going to have problems. 3k in a 5k arena will be easier to grow than 3k in a 9k arena. In fact, that 3k in the 9k will be harder because there IS no atmosphere
Even if the new arena was 5k based on the 5 year average the team would be playing in front of ~60% capacity as opposed to ~33% capacity now. It would be much easier to bump that % number up in the new arena than the Vines. So just looking at those numbers I’m thinking 5k would have been a solid number.
User avatar
By Ill flame
Posts
#600674
I guess it ultimately comes down to if 2019 was an outlier or the new normal. When they were designing this arena 4,000 was a good size that would give us room to grow. Our success should last as long as McKay is around but what happens when he leaves? Will we revert back to our historic success without him? If so does our attendance go back to 2,500? I guess all of these questions might be answered in the next 5-10 years and that will determine if we need to move to a bigger arena or not.
User avatar
By SumItUp
Registration Days Posts
#600676
There will be consistent great game atmosphere, seat demand, increased revenues from more paid tickets and operational savings by eliminating the regular setup and tear down process. From an administration and planning perspective, that's a home run.
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#600678
SumItUp wrote: May 21st, 2020, 2:36 pm There will be consistent great game atmosphere, seat demand, increased revenues from more paid tickets and operational savings by eliminating the regular setup and tear down process. From an administration and planning perspective, that's a home run.
I think you could've had all those things with 500-1000 more seats.

I'm also playing Monday Morning QB two years after the plans were made.
User avatar
By jinxy
Registration Days Posts
#600680
5k has been the number that you hear a lot of people agree on for awhile (outside of administration). I dont think its second guessing. You could see the trajectory we were on for about 3 years.
User avatar
By thepostman
Registration Days Posts Custom
#600682
I like the 5k number too and I seem to remember when the Liberty Arena was first being discussed 4500 was the number floating around. We are kind of talking in circles here.

I think for now this arena is fine and as long as we are in the ASun there will be no reason to play home games anywhere else. It is going to be a loud place to play and I am looking forward to it.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#600698
4500 is the number that was being talked about right up until the actual plans were released. I suspect it ended up at 4000 for a reason which I have not heard mentioned. It may just be that was all they had room for.
Purple Haize liked this
By rogers3
Registration Days Posts
#600704
Purple Haize wrote: May 21st, 2020, 9:53 am It seems to me that it isn’t either 9000 seats or 4000 seats. It seems a lot of people are in agreement (not you roger3 but you make great points) that a number between those would be better. I thought it was originally supposed to be 5kish which seemed about right. However, I don’t have access to attendance numbers etc to determine the rolling averages. I feel confident the vast majority think the Vines was too big and a good number think this is too small. Sounds like a children’s story with porridge or something
No, I agreed on something larger than HS but less than the Vines. In fact, my bigger argument has always been utilizing 2 arenas- one with a large capacity and one smaller. Think a revamped Vines when VT comes to town and 5-6k for all others. I even gave examples, Villanova being the most obvious.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#600705
rogers3 wrote: May 21st, 2020, 9:37 pm
Purple Haize wrote: May 21st, 2020, 9:53 am It seems to me that it isn’t either 9000 seats or 4000 seats. It seems a lot of people are in agreement (not you roger3 but you make great points) that a number between those would be better. I thought it was originally supposed to be 5kish which seemed about right. However, I don’t have access to attendance numbers etc to determine the rolling averages. I feel confident the vast majority think the Vines was too big and a good number think this is too small. Sounds like a children’s story with porridge or something
No, I agreed on something larger than HS but less than the Vines. In fact, my bigger argument has always been utilizing 2 arenas- one with a large capacity and one smaller. Think a revamped Vines when VT comes to town and 5-6k for all others. I even gave examples, Villanova being the most obvious.
User avatar
By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#600723
rogers3 wrote: May 21st, 2020, 9:37 pm I even gave examples, Villanova being the most obvious.
With all due respect, rogers3, does Nova have Convo? Play Basketball Study :dontgetit
User avatar
By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#600734
ballcoach15 wrote: May 23rd, 2020, 9:13 am there are 2 large pumps in there.
My sources confirm that as well.
ballcoach15 liked this
User avatar
By jinxy
Registration Days Posts
#600833
Are they just pumping it out the back. Doesnt seem like theres a great place to pump it through. Man what a bad time to have the roof off.
By flamehunter
Registration Days Posts
#600835
jinxy wrote: May 25th, 2020, 12:25 pm Are they just pumping it out the back. Doesnt seem like theres a great place to pump it through. Man what a bad time to have the roof off.
Where would it go if the roof were still on? Not a big deal.
User avatar
By jinxy
Registration Days Posts
#600836
Eh not exactly. Downspouts are often run underground and way away from buildings where they exit. Pumping is above ground and with the type of rain weve has flooding has been a major concern and keeping the water out of the indoor facility could have been challenging with all this rain.
By flamehunter
Registration Days Posts
#600851
jinxy wrote: May 25th, 2020, 3:23 pm Eh not exactly. Downspouts are often run underground and way away from buildings where they exit. Pumping is above ground and with the type of rain weve has flooding has been a major concern and keeping the water out of the indoor facility could have been challenging with all this rain.
Lynchburg received about 3.5" over the course of 4 days. Not exactly a deluge and I don't suspect they had any problems keeping up with it. Also, given that the Vines was built in a flood plane, I'd bet there is a pretty substantial drain system built into the the floor of the building.
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