[aj7]

CUSA seems to have slipped in prestige over the last 10 years. Used to be that TCU and Louisville were potential BCS busters back in the day. Perhaps FIU or FAU could one day make the G5 new years day game but that still seems unlikely with their coaches leaving regularly.

Unfortunately we don't have a large enough sample to say independence will work better for recruiting, coaching longevity, and fan engagement. Could one or all of these areas take a dip in CUSA?

[jbock13]

Why are we doing this again? Y’all need to get a life if you’re this bored.

[Cider Jim]

It’s better than “if you can’t go to college, go to Marshall!”

See what I mean, Sly? I'd rather hear RD commentary than Purple bashing one of my four alma maters.

[ballcoach15]

No one with ties to Morgantown should NEVER talk negative about another school in WV.

[thepostman]

Why are we doing this again? Y’all need to get a life if you’re this bored.

In our defense this rumor was brought to us by a Marshall fan and started on their message board.

Frankly, I welcome any conversation at this point.

[Purple Haize]

It’s better than “if you can’t go to college, go to Marshall!”

See what I mean, Sly? I'd rather hear RD commentary than Purple bashing one of my four alma maters.

Ouch. That’s hurtful

[Class of 20Something]

So if we isolate football in this question I comes down to philosophy on SOS.

I think most of us, minus probably @tyndal23 , agree that having a strength of schedule around 65-75 is the sweet spot for a sustainable medium term goal for LU.

So far, Indy has missed that mark. Our SOS for 2019 finished at 125 and 2020 is marginally better at 119. 2018 was actually our best at 118.

I think most here would agree that being a top 4 CUSA team would be the reasonable goal.

Those teams are UNT, Southern Miss, FAU, and FIU.

Their 2019 and 2020 strength of schedules are below.
UNT: 121 and 100
Southern Miss: 91 and 103
FAU: 106 and 115
FIU: 114 and 111.

This isn't our goal.

Our goal is to be at the top of G5 scheduling. I have said this before and I will say it again and Tyndall will hunt me down for it one day. Going halfway on P5 scheduling is exactly what we need to do. BYU is 65 or 66 in SoS every single year because of it.

BYU schedules enough P5s to "game" every metric out there into thinking it has a tougher schedule than it does. This allows BYU to finish the season 7-6 and be in the top 60 in ranking. And I will tell you all this minute, I don't care if we lose half our home games on their schedule. I'm going to be two hours early to Michigan State, Utah State, Houston, and Missouri.

The powers that be measure success on the metrics and we are NOT EXPLOITING THAT FACT.

CUSA is not the answer and neither is our current scheduling. I will make it super analytical for everyone. The aggregate FPI of our schedule should not exceed 850.
4 P5+BYU/ND games(all of these will be 65 and below.) We will place hold 260 FPI points here.
This leaves the remaining 8 games to average an FPI of 74. Any game scheduled past that average needs another game scheduled to compensate. I'm an advocate for dropping FCS to game metrics.

If this method is followed, we will have a Strength of Schedule approximately at 71 that will be lower based on any P5 games being better ranked than the bottom feeders of P5.

For example, if we follow 8 games averaging 74FPI(592FPI Points) and our 4 P5 games are against say, VT(18) UNC(29) Miz(55) and Arkansas(59) those add to 161 FPI Points. Added to 592 is 753. And divided over 12 games gives us an average opponent ranking of 62.75.

That mathematically means our average opponent was P5 even though only a third of the opponents actually were.

Football players use every inch of turf to their advantage. Just look at the touching touchdowns. We should do the same in scheduling. It is the easiest way to get a great record with the highest SoS. Both can be achieved which means GREAT BOWL GAMES.

[ATrain]

Traveling to the West Division schools, would be some nice road trips.

If this were to happen, I can just imagine Ballcoach strapping his bicycle into the back of his pickup truck and doing a ROAD TRIP to Birmingham and El Paso (Ballcoach doesn't fly).

I did a road trip to Birmingham once (way back in the day when we were in a conference with Birmingham Southern). Don't see the appeal in going there.

[ATrain]

Nary a Thundering Herd reference in this thread from you, CJ? You surprise me.

Sly, any Marshall reference I make requires Purple to throw out his worn out line about JUCO status, so I don't want to "poke the bear" that was 'educated' in Morgantown.

But I would be THRILLED if LU joined the C-USA.

I will give you that Purple does fit the category of a bear. Carry on

[Purple Haize]

Nary a Thundering Herd reference in this thread from you, CJ? You surprise me.

Sly, any Marshall reference I make requires Purple to throw out his worn out line about JUCO status, so I don't want to "poke the bear" that was 'educated' in Morgantown.

But I would be THRILLED if LU joined the C-USA.

I will give you that Purple does fit the category of a bear. Carry on

I see what you did there

[ballcoach15]

Traveling to the West Division schools, would be some nice road trips.

If this were to happen, I can just imagine Ballcoach strapping his bicycle into the back of his pickup truck and doing a ROAD TRIP to Birmingham and El Paso (Ballcoach doesn't fly).

I did a road trip to Birmingham once (way back in the day when we were in a conference with Birmingham Southern). Don't see the appeal in going there.

Any trip to Alabama is a great trip. Normally I go 4 or 5 times a year. Haven't been yet this year, but I have one planned soon as all these lockdowns end.

[Sly Fox]

It’s better than “if you can’t go to college, go to Marshall!”

See what I mean, Sly? I'd rather hear RD commentary than Purple bashing one of my four alma maters.

Ouch. That’s hurtful

[JK37]

Nary a Thundering Herd reference in this thread from you, CJ? You surprise me.

Sly, any Marshall reference I make requires Purple to throw out his worn out line about JUCO status, so I don't want to "poke the bear" that was 'educated' in Morgantown.

But I would be THRILLED if LU joined the C-USA.

It’s better than “if you can’t go to college, go to Marshall!”

Doc Holliday’s Recruiting Pitch

[tyndal23]

So if we isolate football in this question I comes down to philosophy on SOS.

I think most of us, minus probably @tyndal23 , agree that having a strength of schedule around 65-75 is the sweet spot for a sustainable medium term goal for LU.

So far, Indy has missed that mark. Our SOS for 2019 finished at 125 and 2020 is marginally better at 119. 2018 was actually our best at 118.

I think most here would agree that being a top 4 CUSA team would be the reasonable goal.

Those teams are UNT, Southern Miss, FAU, and FIU.

Their 2019 and 2020 strength of schedules are below.
UNT: 121 and 100
Southern Miss: 91 and 103
FAU: 106 and 115
FIU: 114 and 111.

This isn't our goal.

Our goal is to be at the top of G5 scheduling. I have said this before and I will say it again and Tyndall will hunt me down for it one day. Going halfway on P5 scheduling is exactly what we need to do. BYU is 65 or 66 in SoS every single year because of it.

BYU schedules enough P5s to "game" every metric out there into thinking it has a tougher schedule than it does. This allows BYU to finish the season 7-6 and be in the top 60 in ranking. And I will tell you all this minute, I don't care if we lose half our home games on their schedule. I'm going to be two hours early to Michigan State, Utah State, Houston, and Missouri.

The powers that be measure success on the metrics and we are NOT EXPLOITING THAT FACT.

CUSA is not the answer and neither is our current scheduling. I will make it super analytical for everyone. The aggregate FPI of our schedule should not exceed 850.
4 P5+BYU/ND games(all of these will be 65 and below.) We will place hold 260 FPI points here.
This leaves the remaining 8 games to average an FPI of 74. Any game scheduled past that average needs another game scheduled to compensate. I'm an advocate for dropping FCS to game metrics.

If this method is followed, we will have a Strength of Schedule approximately at 71 that will be lower based on any P5 games being better ranked than the bottom feeders of P5.

For example, if we follow 8 games averaging 74FPI(592FPI Points) and our 4 P5 games are against say, VT(18) UNC(29) Miz(55) and Arkansas(59) those add to 161 FPI Points. Added to 592 is 753. And divided over 12 games gives us an average opponent ranking of 62.75.

That mathematically means our average opponent was P5 even though only a third of the opponents actually were.

Football players use every inch of turf to their advantage. Just look at the touching touchdowns. We should do the same in scheduling. It is the easiest way to get a great record with the highest SoS. Both can be achieved which means GREAT BOWL GAMES.

I do love the level of detailed thought. My counter is BYU earned P5 perception in 1984 and have a 65k stadium. LU will just be considered a weird outlier by both G5 and P5 pundits with 4 P5 games and level of recruiting will be G5 top 10 at best. Adding 2 P5 games 6 years from now ( you already have your medium short term success/fail scheduled ) dramatically changes level of recruiting and we can compete and win half the P5 games or more. As for past 2 year Indie schedules - you are factoring in 2 FCS games and a really down UMass, NMSU 2 games - that metric is going to move dramatically this coming season. 7-5 with a much higher caliber of players in my scenario is just as realistic as your 7-5. What comes with that, TV $, fan base, coach longevity, relevance etc is infinitely greater than your proposed scenario.

[JK37]

Scheduling better makes 7-5 harder. It’s not a given. Schedule higher and have a losing record several years in a row? Might never recover.

[Jonathan Carone]

So we’re going to continue to have winning records against a terrible schedule. Sounds fun!

[JK37]

We’re talking about two extremes. I don’t want t stay where we are. But I don’t want to bite off more than e can chew either. Consistent, incremental growth. Slow and steady wins the race, right?

[Purple Haize]

Scheduling better makes 7-5 harder. It’s not a given. Schedule higher and have a losing record several years in a row? Might never recover.

It seems that there is a belief that LU has a Divine Right to be 7-5 regardless of whom they schedule. That line of reason just assumes LU can play any and all P5 schools it wants and finish 7-5. This in turn will sway those P5 recruits who otherwise wouldn’t come to sign with LU and finish...7-5. That argument has so many false premises and assumptions it’s dizzying. It’s why it’s best to just ignore it. (Not to mention LU would be playing 1 game a year at a Jerry World and have only 3 games in Lynchburg )

[tyndal23]

Scheduling better makes 7-5 harder. It’s not a given. Schedule higher and have a losing record several years in a row? Might never recover.

It seems that there is a belief that LU has a Divine Right to be 7-5 regardless of whom they schedule. That line of reason just assumes LU can play any and all P5 schools it wants and finish 7-5. This in turn will sway those P5 recruits who otherwise wouldn’t come to sign with LU and finish...7-5. That argument has so many false premises and assumptions it’s dizzying. It’s why it’s best to just ignore it. (Not to mention LU would be playing 1 game a year at a Jerry World and have only 3 games in Lynchburg )

A lot of Haize in that smoke - he used 7-5 in his 4 P5 game schedule and I stated 7- 5 with better athletes is just as realistic - win 3 of 6 - 4 of whom are ACC schools in NC who are hardly world beaters 7 seasons from now. Or be UAB and go from no program to Conf USA champ game in 2 years - ( just how long do you think it takes for a school with our resources to be at the top of crappy G5 conference? and still who cares ? Absolutely no one except the P5 team who will poach the coach that wins 10 games for any G5. No thanks count me out. And from now on please do just ignore my posts - your selective misquotes are about as honest as Rachel Maddow.

[Ill flame]

So if we isolate football in this question I comes down to philosophy on SOS.

I think most of us, minus probably @tyndal23 , agree that having a strength of schedule around 65-75 is the sweet spot for a sustainable medium term goal for LU.

So far, Indy has missed that mark. Our SOS for 2019 finished at 125 and 2020 is marginally better at 119. 2018 was actually our best at 118.

I think most here would agree that being a top 4 CUSA team would be the reasonable goal.

Those teams are UNT, Southern Miss, FAU, and FIU.

Their 2019 and 2020 strength of schedules are below.
UNT: 121 and 100
Southern Miss: 91 and 103
FAU: 106 and 115
FIU: 114 and 111.

This isn't our goal.

Our goal is to be at the top of G5 scheduling. I have said this before and I will say it again and Tyndall will hunt me down for it one day. Going halfway on P5 scheduling is exactly what we need to do. BYU is 65 or 66 in SoS every single year because of it.

BYU schedules enough P5s to "game" every metric out there into thinking it has a tougher schedule than it does. This allows BYU to finish the season 7-6 and be in the top 60 in ranking. And I will tell you all this minute, I don't care if we lose half our home games on their schedule. I'm going to be two hours early to Michigan State, Utah State, Houston, and Missouri.

The powers that be measure success on the metrics and we are NOT EXPLOITING THAT FACT.

CUSA is not the answer and neither is our current scheduling. I will make it super analytical for everyone. The aggregate FPI of our schedule should not exceed 850.
4 P5+BYU/ND games(all of these will be 65 and below.) We will place hold 260 FPI points here.
This leaves the remaining 8 games to average an FPI of 74. Any game scheduled past that average needs another game scheduled to compensate. I'm an advocate for dropping FCS to game metrics.

If this method is followed, we will have a Strength of Schedule approximately at 71 that will be lower based on any P5 games being better ranked than the bottom feeders of P5.

For example, if we follow 8 games averaging 74FPI(592FPI Points) and our 4 P5 games are against say, VT(18) UNC(29) Miz(55) and Arkansas(59) those add to 161 FPI Points. Added to 592 is 753. And divided over 12 games gives us an average opponent ranking of 62.75.

That mathematically means our average opponent was P5 even though only a third of the opponents actually were.

Football players use every inch of turf to their advantage. Just look at the touching touchdowns. We should do the same in scheduling. It is the easiest way to get a great record with the highest SoS. Both can be achieved which means GREAT BOWL GAMES.

I really appreciate you coming at this with data to support your opinion. I think it is feasible to get 4 p5's on our schedule most years. My only problem is with your proposed plan for the rest of your schedule. For liberty to schedule 8 g5 games with an average fpi of 74 will be very difficult as an independent. It would require us to schedule almost exclusively top G5 teams which should be our goal but we also need to sprinkle in these other independents (UMass, UConn, nmsu) late in the season when everyone is on conference play. Unfortunately those other teams are hot garbage and will likely always stay that way (UConn has some potential).

BYU is just now getting consistently good schedules several years after going independent so I expect our non p5 portion of the schedule to improve over time. I agree c-usa won't improve our sos though.

[Cider Jim]

So we’re going to continue to have winning records against a terrible schedule. Sounds fun!

Super, go to an LU bowl game in Florida and then tell me if you still feel that way.

[TH Spangler]

Which scenario would give us the best chance at making the 6 team playoff that's being talked about. Seems to me the only path would be through a G5 conference. I can't see that spot ever being awarded to an independent LU or BYU. Like ballcoach pointed out ND is a special outlier.

Until we are filling every seat, averaging 30k per game I dont think we will be seen as a potential P5. Could we get there playing a cusa schedule?

[ballcoach15]

Just beat whoever is on the schedule. The Big 10 has survived for years playing "nobody".

And only play 1 FCS team per season.

[JK37]

Just beat whoever is on the schedule. The Big 10 has survived for years playing "nobody".

And only play 1 FCS team per season.

And then they play each other...in a CONFERENCE!

[Cider Jim]

Purple and JK can say all they want, but the bottom line is Marshall went bowling in 2019, and WVU sat at home with their 5-7 record.