[tyndal23]

My opinion: option A only works until we become consistently competitive.
If/when we start winning, P5s have no reason to take the risk. Then watch those 2 for 1s dry Up
And the house of cards collapses

I think this is a legitimate concern. Right now, all of the NC/VA ACC schools seem to be embracing the 2 for 1s. If LU becomes more dangerous, will they still sign up for that? There might even be some concerns with G5 scheduling. G5s probably want to schedule one or two P5 games and then one or two winnable G5 or FCS games. Scheduling is probably easier when LU is viewed as a winnable game.

Option A isn’t worded correctly. It must happen in a set year (2025,26,27) announced minimum 2 years prior with a statement that LU is playing a majority P5 schedule and in discussions with P5 conferences that will count LU as a P5 SOS provided they play 7 ( or x ) P5 games a year. Of course Ian will be talking with ACC about it but it really is a formality based on each conference commissioner ( I have other posts detailing this ). As for a 50/50 game - a loss to LU as a P5 SOS vs an App State G5 SOS becomes a much bigger deal. In today’s climate - losing to BYU is much better than losing to App St. - u tell me who is the better team - App St is even ranked but still labeled G5 and an unforgivable loss for any P5 conference.

[rtb72]

My opinion: option A only works until we become consistently competitive.
If/when we start winning, P5s have no reason to take the risk. Then watch those 2 for 1s dry Up
And the house of cards collapses

I think this is a legitimate concern. Right now, all of the NC/VA ACC schools seem to be embracing the 2 for 1s. If LU becomes more dangerous, will they still sign up for that? There might even be some concerns with G5 scheduling. G5s probably want to schedule one or two P5 games and then one or two winnable G5 or FCS games. Scheduling is probably easier when LU is viewed as a winnable game.

Option A isn’t worded correctly. It must happen in a set year (2025,26,27) announced minimum 2 years prior with a statement that LU is playing a majority P5 schedule and in discussions with P5 conferences that will count LU as a P5 SOS provided they play 7 ( or x ) P5 games a year. Of course Ian will be talking with ACC about it but it really is a formality based on each conference commissioner ( I have other posts detailing this ). As for a 50/50 game - a loss to LU as a P5 SOS vs an App State G5 SOS becomes a much bigger deal. In today’s climate - losing to BYU is much better than losing to App St. - u tell me who is the better team - App St is even ranked but still labeled G5 and an unforgivable loss for any P5 conference.

First I would suggest that there is an argument that App is a better team than BYU this year. Nonetheless, what would the designation of P5 really give us going 5-7 for the next several years. How do we sell that to future recruits. "Yeah...we are P5, you'll get to play top competition and get blown out; LU will be everybody's homecoming game". It seems we want it all "right now"...and that's just not how it works. There are more elements that are simply outside of our control. So we "say" we are P5....how does that get us more respect when we have a limited foundation, limited fan base, limited exposure (just because we are P5 doesn't mean we are going to positively impact our exposure through football). Sure, we are progressing nicely, we have the money, the coaching staff....but so do other programs who are G5 and can effectively compete with P5 programs. I get that we want established programs to compete against and more options....and since you used App as an example, let's look at them. They played SC and UNC and won, but didn't have a P5 laden schedule. They have built a foundation (over the course of more than a decade) and garner respect both inside and outside of their conference (a seemingly weak conference, but one with opportunities). They are G5...but still have the ability to (and are) build their brand despite it. Are they going to compete for a national championship, probably not in my lifetime....but neither are we. Are they going to a New Year's 6...probably sooner than us.

I would love nothing more than for LU to be established and competitive among the "big" programs/conferences, but just because you have a particular designation doesn't make you a better team, stronger program, or increase your stock. IMHO....we hopefully receive and accept a conference invite, start winning and competing at the level where we are at, and practically be competitive, consistently; then we can discuss P5, and have an actual chance of outside factors lending to that vision. Otherwise, we will be sitting at home in December just like when we were in FCS. No respect, no exposure. Just a team with a bunch of P5 losses.

[PAmedic]

LU can’t exactly “choose” who they want to play. And as time goes on they are going to find more and more they have to take what they can get. Notice how once a team pulls off a big upset, that team never gets invited back? If LU goes to Norman and beatOU do you think OU will schedule them again? Do you think other schools will think twice? Trying to fill out a season schedule like that will become more and more difficult. Being able to find 2 or 3 to compliment your Conference schedule will be easier

Schedules are made several years in advance and in most cases for more than 1 game. So we’d have plenty of P5s on the docket. In addition most P5 programs want to play a good school as it helps come playoff selection time so I don’t see it scaring people away as much as an advantage to get a quality opponent that looks good if you beat them and only mildly bad if you lose.

Knock off 1 or 2 of those P5’s, and watch the others fall off future schedules quickly. We would have to work through that next phase for awhile and scratch out games a few are willing to risk before getting to the point of consideration as a “quality opponent”. Hate to say it again, but look at App State’s trajectory since the infamous Michigan upset.

This

[PAmedic]

Happy new year

[PAmedic]

My opinion: option A only works until we become consistently competitive.
If/when we start winning, P5s have no reason to take the risk. Then watch those 2 for 1s dry Up
And the house of cards collapses

I think this is a legitimate concern. Right now, all of the NC/VA ACC schools seem to be embracing the 2 for 1s. If LU becomes more dangerous, will they still sign up for that? There might even be some concerns with G5 scheduling. G5s probably want to schedule one or two P5 games and then one or two winnable G5 or FCS games. Scheduling is probably easier when LU is viewed as a winnable game.

Option A isn’t worded correctly. It must happen in a set year (2025,26,27) announced minimum 2 years prior with a statement that LU is playing a majority P5 schedule and in discussions with P5 conferences that will count LU as a P5 SOS provided they play 7 ( or x ) P5 games a year. Of course Ian will be talking with ACC about it but it really is a formality based on each conference commissioner ( I have other posts detailing this ). As for a 50/50 game - a loss to LU as a P5 SOS vs an App State G5 SOS becomes a much bigger deal. In today’s climate - losing to BYU is much better than losing to App St. - u tell me who is the better team - App St is even ranked but still labeled G5 and an unforgivable loss for any P5 conference.

Omg wtf dude

[Liberty22]

First I would suggest that there is an argument that App is a better team than BYU this year. Nonetheless, what would the designation of P5 really give us going 5-7 for the next several years. How do we sell that to future recruits. "Yeah...we are P5, you'll get to play top competition and get blown out; LU will be everybody's homecoming game". It seems we want it all "right now"...and that's just not how it works. There are more elements that are simply outside of our control. So we "say" we are P5....how does that get us more respect when we have a limited foundation, limited fan base, limited exposure (just because we are P5 doesn't mean we are going to positively impact our exposure through football). Sure, we are progressing nicely, we have the money, the coaching staff....but so do other programs who are G5 and can effectively compete with P5 programs. I get that we want established programs to compete against and more options....and since you used App as an example, let's look at them. They played SC and UNC and won, but didn't have a P5 laden schedule. They have built a foundation (over the course of more than a decade) and garner respect both inside and outside of their conference (a seemingly weak conference, but one with opportunities). They are G5...but still have the ability to (and are) build their brand despite it. Are they going to compete for a national championship, probably not in my lifetime....but neither are we. Are they going to a New Year's 6...probably sooner than us.

I would love nothing more than for LU to be established and competitive among the "big" programs/conferences, but just because you have a particular designation doesn't make you a better team, stronger program, or increase your stock. IMHO....we hopefully receive and accept a conference invite, start winning and competing at the level where we are at, and practically be competitive, consistently; then we can discuss P5, and have an actual chance of outside factors lending to that vision. Otherwise, we will be sitting at home in December just like when we were in FCS. No respect, no exposure. Just a team with a bunch of P5 losses.

This is easy (If your coach is a great recruiter), you sell to them that they are the missing pieces. You sell the belief that if they come than in 2 years that 5-7 becomes 7-5, 8-4, or 9-3. It’s the same thing we did when recruiting some of the FBS caliber players we had while we were FCS. We sold that they were going to be part of the rise to FBS. Now you sell that they are part of the rise to prominence.

[Purple Haize]

First I would suggest that there is an argument that App is a better team than BYU this year. Nonetheless, what would the designation of P5 really give us going 5-7 for the next several years. How do we sell that to future recruits. "Yeah...we are P5, you'll get to play top competition and get blown out; LU will be everybody's homecoming game". It seems we want it all "right now"...and that's just not how it works. There are more elements that are simply outside of our control. So we "say" we are P5....how does that get us more respect when we have a limited foundation, limited fan base, limited exposure (just because we are P5 doesn't mean we are going to positively impact our exposure through football). Sure, we are progressing nicely, we have the money, the coaching staff....but so do other programs who are G5 and can effectively compete with P5 programs. I get that we want established programs to compete against and more options....and since you used App as an example, let's look at them. They played SC and UNC and won, but didn't have a P5 laden schedule. They have built a foundation (over the course of more than a decade) and garner respect both inside and outside of their conference (a seemingly weak conference, but one with opportunities). They are G5...but still have the ability to (and are) build their brand despite it. Are they going to compete for a national championship, probably not in my lifetime....but neither are we. Are they going to a New Year's 6...probably sooner than us.

I would love nothing more than for LU to be established and competitive among the "big" programs/conferences, but just because you have a particular designation doesn't make you a better team, stronger program, or increase your stock. IMHO....we hopefully receive and accept a conference invite, start winning and competing at the level where we are at, and practically be competitive, consistently; then we can discuss P5, and have an actual chance of outside factors lending to that vision. Otherwise, we will be sitting at home in December just like when we were in FCS. No respect, no exposure. Just a team with a bunch of P5 losses.

This is easy (If your coach is a great recruiter), you sell to them that they are the missing pieces. You sell the belief that if they come than in 2 years that 5-7 becomes 7-5, 8-4, or 9-3. It’s the same thing we did when recruiting some of the FBS caliber players we had while we were FCS. We sold that they were going to be part of the rise to FBS. Now you sell that they are part of the rise to prominence.

I can do the same thing at another school with the promise of Championships.

[JK37]

First I would suggest that there is an argument that App is a better team than BYU this year. Nonetheless, what would the designation of P5 really give us going 5-7 for the next several years. How do we sell that to future recruits. "Yeah...we are P5, you'll get to play top competition and get blown out; LU will be everybody's homecoming game". It seems we want it all "right now"...and that's just not how it works. There are more elements that are simply outside of our control. So we "say" we are P5....how does that get us more respect when we have a limited foundation, limited fan base, limited exposure (just because we are P5 doesn't mean we are going to positively impact our exposure through football). Sure, we are progressing nicely, we have the money, the coaching staff....but so do other programs who are G5 and can effectively compete with P5 programs. I get that we want established programs to compete against and more options....and since you used App as an example, let's look at them. They played SC and UNC and won, but didn't have a P5 laden schedule. They have built a foundation (over the course of more than a decade) and garner respect both inside and outside of their conference (a seemingly weak conference, but one with opportunities). They are G5...but still have the ability to (and are) build their brand despite it. Are they going to compete for a national championship, probably not in my lifetime....but neither are we. Are they going to a New Year's 6...probably sooner than us.

I would love nothing more than for LU to be established and competitive among the "big" programs/conferences, but just because you have a particular designation doesn't make you a better team, stronger program, or increase your stock. IMHO....we hopefully receive and accept a conference invite, start winning and competing at the level where we are at, and practically be competitive, consistently; then we can discuss P5, and have an actual chance of outside factors lending to that vision. Otherwise, we will be sitting at home in December just like when we were in FCS. No respect, no exposure. Just a team with a bunch of P5 losses.

This is easy...

No, it’s not.

[Purple Haize]

Yeah. Anyone who says recruiting is easy has never recruited

[Liberty22]

You guys are the king of pulling words out of context to form a narrative. You saw me say “if you’re a great recruiter”. There’s a minimal amount of great recruiters out there and we all recognize HF as one. The best part of your assumption is that I’ve never worked in recruiting.

[JK37]

I saw you say “This is easy if your coach is a great recruiter.” Takes more than that.

I didn’t assume you’ve never worked in recruiting. You just made it clear to us by your asinine opinions.

sorry

[Liberty22]

I saw you say “This is easy if your coach is a great recruiter.” Takes more than that.

I didn’t assume you’ve never worked in recruiting. You just made it clear to us by your asinine opinions.

sorry

I was talking about purple but frankly I don’t care that y’all don’t believe me that I’ve worked in recruiting. My wording of easy was in terms of response to the question you posed, “how do we sell that to recruits”. That’s easy meaning answering how do you sell that. The process itself is difficult but great recruiters obviously have an advantage. HF is a great recruiter and he can sell that branding.

[JK37]

I’m just joshing you. I really like you. I only kid, because I care.

[R i]

We need a conference in 5 years bc not only will teams wise up and stop scheduling a losable G5 game like LU is projecting to be, but we arent the most loved University in the world for a variety of reasons.

[tyndal23]

First I would suggest that there is an argument that App is a better team than BYU this year. Nonetheless, what would the designation of P5 really give us going 5-7 for the next several years. How do we sell that to future recruits. "Yeah...we are P5, you'll get to play top competition and get blown out; LU will be everybody's homecoming game". It seems we want it all "right now"...and that's just not how it works. There are more elements that are simply outside of our control. So we "say" we are P5....how does that get us more respect when we have a limited foundation, limited fan base, limited exposure (just because we are P5 doesn't mean we are going to positively impact our exposure through football). Sure, we are progressing nicely, we have the money, the coaching staff....but so do other programs who are G5 and can effectively compete with P5 programs. I get that we want established programs to compete against and more options....and since you used App as an example, let's look at them. They played SC and UNC and won, but didn't have a P5 laden schedule. They have built a foundation (over the course of more than a decade) and garner respect both inside and outside of their conference (a seemingly weak conference, but one with opportunities). They are G5...but still have the ability to (and are) build their brand despite it. Are they going to compete for a national championship, probably not in my lifetime....but neither are we. Are they going to a New Year's 6...probably sooner than us.

I would love nothing more than for LU to be established and competitive among the "big" programs/conferences, but just because you have a particular designation doesn't make you a better team, stronger program, or increase your stock. IMHO....we hopefully receive and accept a conference invite, start winning and competing at the level where we are at, and practically be competitive, consistently; then we can discuss P5, and have an actual chance of outside factors lending to that vision. Otherwise, we will be sitting at home in December just like when we were in FCS. No respect, no exposure. Just a team with a bunch of P5 losses.

This is easy...

No, it’s not.

I have gone in depth on recruiting and recruiting budgets scheduling and difference between a kid who is conservative or Christian and is a 4 star wanting to go pro - the P5 wins out 99 percent of the time. If you don’t think LU can recruit at a high level nationally as P5 with a HF caliber coach - then u are right we would be dumb to go P5 - almost as dumb as what we are doing now - scheduling 4 unwinnable games while trying to establish a “ winning record” culture as a G5. Also some on here don’t get the difference between P5 equivalent status when a P5 schedules you vs a G5 status, payouts, 1 for 1 opportunities vs 2 for 1 or 1 off only in scheduling.

[tyndal23]

This is easy...

No, it’s not.

I have gone in depth on recruiting and recruiting budgets scheduling and difference between a kid who is conservative or Christian and is a 4 star wanting to go pro - the P5 wins out 99 percent of the time. If you don’t think LU can recruit at a high level nationally as P5 with a HF caliber coach - then u are right we would be dumb to go P5 - almost as dumb as what we are doing now - scheduling 4 unwinnable games while trying to establish a “ winning record” culture as a G5. Also some on here don’t get the difference between P5 equivalent status when a P5 schedules you vs a G5 status, payouts, 1 for 1 opportunities vs 2 for 1 or 1 off only in scheduling.

I forgot to add - App St. - they haven’t been going at it for a decade - we beat them in 2014 during their transition year and yes they have done very well but are in their 3rd coach in 3 years ( another major point about not being designated a G5 anything ) What is App St ceiling - will they get invited to a P5 over UCF, Memphis,Cincinnati,USF,SDSU,Boise - they are Boise East - small but rabid fan base and a G5 that no one will want to schedule ( just like purple stated about LU if we stay G5 ). LU will also beat multiple P5 teams in a given year but that is when stars align - year in and year out App won’t beat S Carolina and UNC. As a matter of fact - the gap between P5 and G5 is getting ready to be more extreme due to conference tv $ ( and the fact that spread offense has finally been slowed down and we are back to bigger and better athletes winning the day ).

[ballcoach15]

Appy State isn't a candidate for a bigger conference because they have peaked wherever they are now. Appy should not be mentioned in same paragraph as a P5 conference. Plus they are a 1 sport school.

[LUOrange]

Option A - remain Independent with increasingly equivalent P5 schedule.

Option B - pursue P5 conference affiliation. This will never happen. All the P5 conferences have circled the wagons.

Option C - pursue the best G5 conference (AAC) and hope they become the newest addition to the P6.

Option D - pursue any G5 conference. Not a good idea. Liberty has larger aspirations.

To me, "Option A" is the most logical and most within our control. This also gives us the most options when the seismic shift happens in FBS. It was God's providence that Liberty was iced out of a G5 conference. Most pundits laughed and warned against Liberty going Independent FBS. Hindsight is 20/20 and shows to be the right decision. Stay the course. The right move will present itself in God's timing.

It is very possible to be doing Options A,B & C all simultaneously, and that's what I believe McCaw is doing. Option B is clearly the long shot-pipe dream. However, I think McCaw is at minimum, negotiating with the AAC and waiting on the big realignment in 2023-24. He's mentioned the AAC a few times, and our schedules 2024 & 25 still have several vacancies and beyond them, they only have what's left of many of our 2 for 1's.

[tyndal23]

Option A - remain Independent with increasingly equivalent P5 schedule.

Option B - pursue P5 conference affiliation. This will never happen. All the P5 conferences have circled the wagons.

Option C - pursue the best G5 conference (AAC) and hope they become the newest addition to the P6.

Option D - pursue any G5 conference. Not a good idea. Liberty has larger aspirations.

To me, "Option A" is the most logical and most within our control. This also gives us the most options when the seismic shift happens in FBS. It was God's providence that Liberty was iced out of a G5 conference. Most pundits laughed and warned against Liberty going Independent FBS. Hindsight is 20/20 and shows to be the right decision. Stay the course. The right move will present itself in God's timing.

It is very possible to be doing Options A,B & C all simultaneously, and that's what I believe McCaw is doing. Option B is clearly the long shot-pipe dream. However, I think McCaw is at minimum, negotiating with the AAC and waiting on the big realignment in 2023-24. He's mentioned the AAC a few times, and our schedules 2024 & 25 still have several vacancies and beyond them, they only have what's left of many of our 2 for 1's.

I hope you are right. Option C should have an answer pretty quickly. Option A leads to Option B quicker than anything else.

[JK37]

This is easy...

No, it’s not.

I have gone in depth on recruiting and recruiting budgets scheduling and difference between a kid who is conservative or Christian and is a 4 star wanting to go pro - the P5 wins out 99 percent of the time. If you don’t think LU can recruit at a high level nationally as P5 with a HF caliber coach - then u are right we would be dumb to go P5 - almost as dumb as what we are doing now - scheduling 4 unwinnable games while trying to establish a “ winning record” culture as a G5. Also some on here don’t get the difference between P5 equivalent status when a P5 schedules you vs a G5 status, payouts, 1 for 1 opportunities vs 2 for 1 or 1 off only in scheduling.

All I said was that it isn’t easy. Your ad nauseum explanations only prove my point.

I’m not saying your plan isn’t possible. Or probable. Or even best. I’m just saying let’s not denigrate the difficulty of it and in the process shoot ourselves in the foot by overstating expectations of success or the timelines thereof.

Maybe we do it your way, Tyndal.

But it will NOT be easy. And nothing is guaranteed.

[BJWilliams]

Not to mention, success for us at this point is a double edged sword. We do well in these next few seasons (7-9 wins possibly with a 10+ thrown in), P5s will be very hard pressed to schedule on anything even remotely resembling equal footing with us...and I'm not even talking the top tier P5s, I'm talking the middle of the road P5s with aspirations for a NY6 bowl and maybe a playoff berth should the field expand as has been called for.

[rtb72]

No, it’s not.

I have gone in depth on recruiting and recruiting budgets scheduling and difference between a kid who is conservative or Christian and is a 4 star wanting to go pro - the P5 wins out 99 percent of the time. If you don’t think LU can recruit at a high level nationally as P5 with a HF caliber coach - then u are right we would be dumb to go P5 - almost as dumb as what we are doing now - scheduling 4 unwinnable games while trying to establish a “ winning record” culture as a G5. Also some on here don’t get the difference between P5 equivalent status when a P5 schedules you vs a G5 status, payouts, 1 for 1 opportunities vs 2 for 1 or 1 off only in scheduling.

I forgot to add - App St. - they haven’t been going at it for a decade - we beat them in 2014 during their transition year and yes they have done very well but are in their 3rd coach in 3 years ( another major point about not being designated a G5 anything ) What is App St ceiling - will they get invited to a P5 over UCF, Memphis,Cincinnati,USF,SDSU,Boise - they are Boise East - small but rabid fan base and a G5 that no one will want to schedule ( just like purple stated about LU if we stay G5 ). LU will also beat multiple P5 teams in a given year but that is when stars align - year in and year out App won’t beat S Carolina and UNC. As a matter of fact - the gap between P5 and G5 is getting ready to be more extreme due to conference tv $ ( and the fact that spread offense has finally been slowed down and we are back to bigger and better athletes winning the day ).

They lost their past two because, well.....they were winning. They have been going for over a decade despite the mentioned one loss to us....they have several FCS titles and numerous bowl appearances (wins). Even in FCS they were getting their brand noticed. Then you add Michigan as just one example. They can recruit easily in NC and Tenn because of what I mentioned..... they WIN, their fanbase is very strong (the landscape in Boone is clearly changed on gameday), people get excited about the growing potential. You may think they've reached their ceiling, and maybe they have, but the trend is not supported by that assertion. They are competing in NC with P5s as a G5 and like it or not.....I believe have a stronger established program overall right now compared to LU. The coach they lost this year, in my a opinion, knew the program and recruits were very good and knew he could use them as a stepping stone. It worked. Our single win against App in 2014 was amazing. The Lunsford FG I believe was on Sports Center. That single event does not translate into 'App has reached their ceiling' or they will never have as much potential as LU'. Will they get invited to join a P5 conference....realistically speaking....I think their chance is better than ours right now.

The team went to Penn State and nearly won. So much respect the opposing fan base gave them a standing ovation. I believe even with their success, they will still be able to schedule quality P5 teams and compete against. Again, the trend tends to show this is possible.

HCHF is a great coach and recruiter. I'm not taking anything away from him, but there are lots of great recruiting coaches out there and they are aided by the school they are recruiting for (reputation, potential, trends, winning tradition) Not saying LU is not a great school, I love LU above all others, but I think we need to still practically resolve where we are right now and acknowledge our vision is not achieved overnight....or in a couple of winning seasons.

[tyndal23]

I agree with all of that about App RTB72 - except their ceiling is G5 with a NY6 bowl - period. LU could pursue G5 elite success, but we don’t get a NY6 bowl simply because we are not Officially G5. I also don’t think LU gets a P5 conference invite ever, and I have no problem being in same classification as ND and BYU. ( that was the original vision after all ). I do have a problem being in same classification as UMass and NMSU. We are Independent and we have a say in what level ( P5 equivalent or G5 ) the rest is completely out of our hands when it comes to conference invites.

[rtb72]

I agree with all of that about App RTB72 - except their ceiling is G5 with a NY6 bowl - period. LU could pursue G5 elite success, but we don’t get a NY6 bowl simply because we are not Officially G5. I also don’t think LU gets a P5 conference invite ever, and I have no problem being in same classification as ND and BYU. ( that was the original vision after all ). I do have a problem being in same classification as UMass and NMSU. We are Independent and we have a say in what level ( P5 equivalent or G5 ) the rest is completely out of our hands when it comes to conference invites.

That's fair...and yes, that is their ceiling for now, i hope and think their trajectory will go beyond that. I agree, I don't want to be the same "classification" or perceived as UMass and NMSU, either. I feel we clearly define that through winning football games and being competitive, continuing to develop our program and improve recruiting, as we accomplish goals that clearly demonstrate our potential and growth, as well as lend to our ultimate vision. I think being a part of a conference, however, will help us realize those dimensions as we grow as a program. I am not suggesting it has to be now (and of course it also depends on invite), but i think it should be and probably is part of LU's long range planning model.

[ballcoach15]

If Appy State is a candidate for a Power 5 conference , then LU should be invited to join the SEC ..................today.

I am reminded of when I grew up in the country. There were several "one-horse farmers" in the neighborhood.