[thepostman]

Thanks for pulling that info. People tend to remember the past wearing Rose colored glasses. The Vines has always been too big but was used for other functions so it made sense.

The new arena is going to be smaller but much nicer than the Vines and an upgrade in all areas other then capacity. If our program grows and the demand does as well then we can always move back to the Vines.

It all makes sense to me

[Purple Haize]

This type of level headed fact based reasoning has no place here sir! LU must build it’s own version of The Dean Dome and call it Jerry Arena!

[thepostman]

We already have Jerry's nipple as we liked to call the Vines back in my student days.

[rogers3]

Thanks for pulling that info. People tend to remember the past wearing Rose colored glasses. The Vines has always been too big but was used for other functions so it made sense.

The new arena is going to be smaller but much nicer than the Vines and an upgrade in all areas other then capacity. If our program grows and the demand does as well then we can always move back to the Vines.

It all makes sense to me

That does make sense. Something I am having a hard time referencing is that we would never use Vines for basketball again. Several have commented that McCaw said as much, but if we have a plan for year in year out competitiveness, we will have a stronger draw. We have a lot more students on campus than we had back in the good old Meyer days, and a basketball game is a much easier sell than a long, televised football game for a lot of people.
Based on this, I'd argue that while this will be a great addition and useful for quite a few programs, it seems shortsighted to say that we will not be using a larger facility for marquee games as some have said recently. If I put my LU goggles on, they would remind me that our times of ESPN highlight plays might be short-lived and we could have another Hankinson here in 5 years. That is when I will reminisce about the good old crowds in the Multipurpose Center

[olldflame]

Thanks for pulling that info. People tend to remember the past wearing Rose colored glasses. The Vines has always been too big but was used for other functions so it made sense.

The new arena is going to be smaller but much nicer than the Vines and an upgrade in all areas other then capacity. If our program grows and the demand does as well then we can always move back to the Vines.

It all makes sense to me

That does make sense. Something I am having a hard time referencing is that we would never use Vines for basketball again. Several have commented that McCaw said as much, but if we have a plan for year in year out competitiveness, we will have a stronger draw. We have a lot more students on campus than we had back in the good old Meyer days, and a basketball game is a much easier sell than a long, televised football game for a lot of people.
Based on this, I'd argue that while this will be a great addition and useful for quite a few programs, it seems shortsighted to say that we will not be using a larger facility for marquee games as some have said recently. If I put my LU goggles on, they would remind me that our times of ESPN highlight plays might be short-lived and we could have another Hankinson here in 5 years. That is when I will reminisce about the good old crowds in the Multipurpose Center

Regarding the last 2 statements. I personally don't think whether we have highlight plays on ESPN or not should be a factor in our leadership making major decisions, but in reality I don't see the size of our venue making a lick of difference where that is concerned. ESPN shows highlights from events with small crowds (including D3, and HS games and obscure sports) on a regular basis. They are looking for athletic wow factor and/or something unusual or humorous.

As far as who our basketball coach will be 5 years from now (and probably several beyond that), I believe it will be Ritchie McKay, and I believe the decision to go this route with the arena will have as much to do with that as his new contract (which I predict will be upgraded at some point). Ritchie, along with the Physical Plant people, Carey Green and the volleyball coach (not sure if it was Pinder or Johnson when the decision was made) would have been the loudest voices advocating for this, and Ritchie was certainly the most influential. I would absolutely lay money that he is the main reason for the minor change in course in deciding not to move anticipated "big games" to the Vines. He has always been, shall we say "diplomatically complimentary" of our fan support, but IMHO it was obvious he hated playing in front of all those empty seats.

[flameshaw]

Back in the Aluma, Hildebrand and Nwosu days, there were MANY times the Vines was almost at capacity. You actually had to look hard to find an empty seat.
In the subsequent years, the lack of wins and poor coaching, brought us to where it was almost like a morgue.
I believe the smaller area will prove to be a very good decision, but don't think anyone should rule out an occasional return to the Vines for "big games".
I haven't been to a men's game in several years, because of the three hour drive, but I may have to go to a couple this coming year.
For you young pups, there was actually a time that we were known as a "basketball school" Thank goodness we have moved on to becoming identified with football much more every year.

[Jonathan Carone]

While there are more kids on campus today, there are exponentially more things to do to occupy them as well.

[rogers3]

Regarding the last 2 statements. I personally don't think whether we have highlight plays on ESPN or not should be a factor in our leadership making major decisions, but in reality I don't see the size of our venue making a lick of difference where that is concerned. ESPN shows highlights from events with small crowds (including D3, and HS games and obscure sports) on a regular basis. They are looking for athletic wow factor and/or something unusual or humorous.

As far as who our basketball coach will be 5 years from now (and probably several beyond that), I believe it will be Ritchie McKay, and I believe the decision to go this route with the arena will have as much to do with that as his new contract (which I predict will be upgraded at some point). Ritchie, along with the Physical Plant people, Carey Green and the volleyball coach (not sure if it was Pinder or Johnson when the decision was made) would have been the loudest voices advocating for this, and Ritchie was certainly the most influential. I would absolutely lay money that he is the main reason for the minor change in course in deciding not to move anticipated "big games" to the Vines. He has always been, shall we say "diplomatically complimentary" of our fan support, but IMHO it was obvious he hated playing in front of all those empty seats.

oldflame- I'v got to call you out on distorting what I said. My reference was merely related to the quality of play we see and it certainly does relate to fan interest over time. Secondly, please provide reference for a commitment to never take bigger games to a larger venue. I haven't seen too many others mention this; when I look back through the thread it seems to be a common thought that Vines will be used for some larger draws and we certainly wouldn't be the only school to utilize more than one venue during a season. Can you elaborate that comment about the downsized arena being an important part of McKay's contract? If true, he'd likely be the first to demand a 55% reduction in fan potential. On a side note, I find it interesting that so many have been excited to see the continued expansion of the stadium and then on the other hand are adamant about downsizing our potential for large crowds at basketball games. These are not parallel strategies.

[olldflame]

It's a fairly recent thing, and I believe it was Manson who first posted it here that McCaw has stated emphatically in an interview that they no longer plan on moving any MBB games to the Vines regardless of anticipated crowd size. Ritchie is all about home court being the biggest possible advantage to his team, and believes we would lose a some of that in playing a game now and then in a venue where they do not play or practice on a regular basis. I didn't say it was part of Ritchie's contract. I said it will be another positive factor in keeping him around. It's what he wants. He could care less about fan "potential". He wants an electric home environment game in and game out. If having enough seats is "potential", we have had the potential to draw 9000 plus for 30 years and we have done it once (with the help of 4 or 5 thousand Hokies). It really doesn't mean much.

I also suspect that a factor in deciding not to move games to the Vines could be that it will enable them to make some permanent changes to make it better for convo.

[Class of 20Something]

I think what were missing with the discussion of moving "big games" into the vines is the loss of home court advantage. Vines won’t be home court. Liberty Arena will be. There is a difference.

Oh look, old flame hit it on the head.

[ATrain]

It's a fairly recent thing, and I believe it was Manson who first posted it here that McCaw has stated emphatically in an interview that they no longer plan on moving any MBB games to the Vines regardless of anticipated crowd size. Ritchie is all about home court being the biggest possible advantage to his team, and believes we would lose a some of that in playing a game now and then in a venue where they do not play or practice on a regular basis. I didn't say it was part of Ritchie's contract. I said it will be another positive factor in keeping him around. It's what he wants. He could care less about fan "potential". He wants an electric home environment game in and game out. If having enough seats is "potential", we have had the potential to draw 9000 plus for 30 years and we have done it once (with the help of 4 or 5 thousand Hokies). It really doesn't mean much.

I also suspect that a factor in deciding not to move games to the Vines could be that it will enable them to make some permanent changes to make it better for convo.

2004 Big South Championship Game drew 8,515 if my memory serves me right

[olldflame]

It's a fairly recent thing, and I believe it was Manson who first posted it here that McCaw has stated emphatically in an interview that they no longer plan on moving any MBB games to the Vines regardless of anticipated crowd size. Ritchie is all about home court being the biggest possible advantage to his team, and believes we would lose a some of that in playing a game now and then in a venue where they do not play or practice on a regular basis. I didn't say it was part of Ritchie's contract. I said it will be another positive factor in keeping him around. It's what he wants. He could care less about fan "potential". He wants an electric home environment game in and game out. If having enough seats is "potential", we have had the potential to draw 9000 plus for 30 years and we have done it once (with the help of 4 or 5 thousand Hokies). It really doesn't mean much.

I also suspect that a factor in deciding not to move games to the Vines could be that it will enable them to make some permanent changes to make it better for convo.

2004 Big South Championship Game drew 8,515 if my memory serves me right

Wow. Right off the top of your head. Almost Rainman-esque.
Looking at the box scores, there was an excellent crowd for the semis as well. Didn't hurt that Doc footed the bill for the students.

[rogers3]

It's a fairly recent thing, and I believe it was Manson who first posted it here that McCaw has stated emphatically in an interview that they no longer plan on moving any MBB games to the Vines regardless of anticipated crowd size. Ritchie is all about home court being the biggest possible advantage to his team, and believes we would lose a some of that in playing a game now and then in a venue where they do not play or practice on a regular basis. I didn't say it was part of Ritchie's contract. I said it will be another positive factor in keeping him around. It's what he wants. He could care less about fan "potential". He wants an electric home environment game in and game out. If having enough seats is "potential", we have had the potential to draw 9000 plus for 30 years and we have done it once (with the help of 4 or 5 thousand Hokies). It really doesn't mean much.

I also suspect that a factor in deciding not to move games to the Vines could be that it will enable them to make some permanent changes to make it better for convo.

I think that the McCaw/McKay opposition to moving big games to the Vines could be partially an urban legend. I haven't seen a word of it, yet. Plus, it doesn't seem to hurt the play of Villanova, which moves regularly between a smaller arena (6500) to a larger arena that is off campus and seats around 20,000 for big games. The team will still be based in the Vines Center and I assume that they already spend some of their practice on the practice court as opposed to the main floor of the Vines. I'll just have to assume that a strategy hasn't been developed quite yet and we will see what happens when the new gym is built. I would be surprised if we don't see an uptick in attendance this coming season, as it is.

[A Sea of Red]

McCaw discussed playing exclusively at the new arena here:

https://www.newsadvance.com/sports/coll ... b309b.html

[olldflame]

McCaw discussed playing exclusively at the New Arena here:

https://www.newsadvance.com/sports/coll ... b309b.html

FIFY

[olldflame]

There are some teams that move back and forth between huge civic type arenas and more intimate on campus venues, but not as many as their used to be. Even St. Johns is playing fewer and fewer home games in MSG and more in Carneseca Arena, which seats 5,600. 7 at MSG this season (all of them Big East games) and 13 at the smaller venue. For the first time they are playing 2 Big East games (Butler and Creighton) at Carneseca I think I can safely say that if they were able to speak candidly, none of the coaches involved like the arrangement.

[A Sea of Red]

Thanks

[flameshaw]

It's a fairly recent thing, and I believe it was Manson who first posted it here that McCaw has stated emphatically in an interview that they no longer plan on moving any MBB games to the Vines regardless of anticipated crowd size. Ritchie is all about home court being the biggest possible advantage to his team, and believes we would lose a some of that in playing a game now and then in a venue where they do not play or practice on a regular basis. I didn't say it was part of Ritchie's contract. I said it will be another positive factor in keeping him around. It's what he wants. He could care less about fan "potential". He wants an electric home environment game in and game out. If having enough seats is "potential", we have had the potential to draw 9000 plus for 30 years and we have done it once (with the help of 4 or 5 thousand Hokies). It really doesn't mean much.

I also suspect that a factor in deciding not to move games to the Vines could be that it will enable them to make some permanent changes to make it better for convo.

2004 Big South Championship Game drew 8,515 if my memory serves me right

With a couple of thousand waiting outside for the doors to open, a couple of hours before the game.

[rogers3]

McCaw discussed playing exclusively at the new arena here:

https://www.newsadvance.com/sports/coll ... b309b.html

Thank you for adding that...too much comes out in the press to keep track of. I still think that the 4k seats won't be the cap in the long run. I look forward to seeing what happens this year with attendance. I think the real game changer for college sports at our level has been ESPN3 and competing platforms as opposed to lack of interest. Made it easier for me to stay home with kids during that season of family life.

[ATrain]

It's a fairly recent thing, and I believe it was Manson who first posted it here that McCaw has stated emphatically in an interview that they no longer plan on moving any MBB games to the Vines regardless of anticipated crowd size. Ritchie is all about home court being the biggest possible advantage to his team, and believes we would lose a some of that in playing a game now and then in a venue where they do not play or practice on a regular basis. I didn't say it was part of Ritchie's contract. I said it will be another positive factor in keeping him around. It's what he wants. He could care less about fan "potential". He wants an electric home environment game in and game out. If having enough seats is "potential", we have had the potential to draw 9000 plus for 30 years and we have done it once (with the help of 4 or 5 thousand Hokies). It really doesn't mean much.

I also suspect that a factor in deciding not to move games to the Vines could be that it will enable them to make some permanent changes to make it better for convo.

2004 Big South Championship Game drew 8,515 if my memory serves me right

Wow. Right off the top of your head. Almost Rainman-esque.
Looking at the box scores, there was an excellent crowd for the semis as well. Didn't hurt that Doc footed the bill for the students.

I doubt I'll ever forget that game. Perhaps the best sporting event I attended at LU, ever!

[Cider Jim]

After months of seeing just poured concete, this week the steel beams and steel cross ties went up to suddenly give the new arena a 3-dimensional look.

[thepostman]

[ballcoach15]

Hopefully the new parking garage on East Campus will help basketball attendance. In my opinion, lack of parking has hurt basketball attendance over the years.

[Cider Jim]

I've looked, but I don't see a construction cam for the new basketball area. How can that be? Is it there, and I'm just missing it?

The one that is titled "Liberty Arena" just shows the Freedom Tower going up.

https://www.liberty.edu/aboutliberty/in ... Roundabout

[Cider Jim]

We need a pic of the progress.