This is the definitive place to discuss everything that makes life on & off campus so unique in Central Virginia.

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By Rocketfan
Registration Days Posts
#56367
Liberty University would donate land for a regional civic center and become its primary tenant if Lynchburg or Campbell County would agree to build the facility, a school official said.

But Lynchburg’s city manager questions whether such a project would be worth the cost.

“I am asked from time to time about a city civic center, and my typical response is, ‘Show me one that’s not subsidized by taxpayers’ money. Show me one that pays for itself and we can talk about that,’” said Lynchburg City Manager Kimball Payne.

Jerry Falwell Jr., LU’s vice chancellor, said Lynchburg or Campbell County has a unique opportunity because the university would be a willing long-term participant in the project.

“When we have ball games and other events, we would pay for it in return for the use of it,” he said. “If the city or county aren’t going to build it, we’ll have to look at building something ourselves. If we have to build a new facility, just for basketball and chapel services, the city and county will be missing a great opportunity. A town this size needs a civic center.”

Falwell Jr. said LU has two potential sites for the civic center. One of those sites is near two proposed tunnels leading from the campus to Wards Road. The other is near the intersection of U.S. 460 and southbound U.S. 29.

The Lynchburg school, founded by the Rev. Jerry Falwell, has outgrown the Vines Center, which is used for convocations, graduations, basketball games and events like Winterfest, a three-day Christian New Year’s celebration.

“Winterfest has maxed out our facility,” said Ron Godwin, LU’s executive vice president and chief operating officer. “We maxed out the Vines Center. We’ve maxed out the hotels.”

Falwell Jr. said a civic center would serve as a stimulus to local businesses, which would benefit from the traffic a civic center would create.

Payne said the biggest question is whether a civic center would generate enough money - even when considering its impact on local hotels, restaurants and shops - to pay for itself.

Such a center likely would cost tens of millions of dollars, he said. That would means millions of dollars a year in debt service and operating costs.

LU athletic director Jeff Barber said a 20,000-seat building could cost about $70 million.Payne said he’s unsure whether Lynchburg citizens would be willing to support a subsidized civic center.

“That’s not to say a partnership (between LU and the city) couldn’t work in some way,” he said.

Campbell County Administrator R. David Laurrell said a civic center has been on the minds of the region’s business and government officials for about 10 years.

The project never got off the ground, largely because other needs kept arising, Laurrell said.

“If Liberty is starting to have a conversation about it, my guess is that it may be moved up in terms of being more practical or more feasible,” he said.

Like Payne, Laurrell said a civic center would have to be self-supporting.

“I don’t know that it would have to be revenue neutral right up front,” he said. “But I think that there would have to be some kind of plan that the value that it brings to the community is equal to the cost.”

Because of LU’s religious beliefs, some events, such as secular rock concerts, cannot be held at a university-owned facility. A publicly owned civic center could be opened to all types of events.

One possible thorny issue would be serving alcohol at a venue on or near LU’s campus.

“For better or worse, many conventions frequently have alcohol in some form or fashion,” Payne said. “I don’t know that that would be a stumbling block, but it would have to be addressed.”

The Rev. Jerry Falwell, LU’s chancellor, said the sale of alcohol at events not sponsored by the university would be a non-issue.

“That’s a common sense thing,” he said. “If the city of Lynchburg or Campbell County builds a property, which they rent to us for special uses, what they do with the building with all their events is none of our business.”

Falwell said many restaurants near the campus already sell alcohol.

Several years ago, a civic center ranked high on the wish list of those people who participated in Regional Renaissance, a series of public meetings that gauged the interests of Central Virginia’s residents.

This week, readers of The Burg, a local arts, culture and entertainment weekly produced by The News & Advance, ranked a civic center as the area’s No. 1 need.

Falwell Jr. said a civic center might need to be a joint venture of several municipalities.

“Something like this should be a city and county project,” he said. “This is something they should work together on. It would put them five steps ahead of the game if they had a major university with all its functions as a user. If there was a civic center within walking distance, we’d be using it five days a week.”

Godwin said a civic center would likely broaden the types of events the school sponsors.

“If we had a true civic center, we would put on events that we don’t start to put on right now,” he said. “I’d bring a full-blown western rodeo to this campus in a heartbeat. It would pull in students in huge numbers.”
By Ed Dantes
Registration Days Posts
#56369
Rocketfan wrote:The Lynchburg school, founded by the Rev. Jerry Falwell, has outgrown the Vines Center, which is used for convocations, graduations, basketball games...
Obviously, whoever wrote this hasn't been to a basketball game recently.



And I can't wait for the new convo center, so we can host a rodeo like Godwin wants!



(All this time, I thought we were trying to SHED our image of being a cow college).
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By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#56370
That's thinking outside the box--we donate the land for a civic center, Lynchburg and/or Campbell county builds it, and they then rent it out to us when we need to use it for Winterfest or graduation or maybe even a Big South basketball tournament. And Jerry's even okay if the civil center sells alcohol, as long as we don't own it.
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By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#56371
Ed, rodeos are just the start. If this thing happens, you can look for cultural events coming to Lynchburg that have never been here before--tractor pulls, professional wrestling, etc.
Last edited by Cider Jim on January 27th, 2007, 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
By Ed Dantes
Registration Days Posts
#56373
Cider Jim wrote:Ed, rodeos are just the start. If this thing happens, you can look for cultural events coming to Lychburg that have never been here before--tractor pulls, professional wrestling, etc.
I know what you're saying is true, I only hope you posted it as a joke.
By absturgill
Registration Days Posts
#56377
For concerts of all types, a 20,000 seat arena would be much better off that the Roanoke Civic Center (about 10,000) and the Salem Civic Center (about 4,500). If this project goes forward, it would be the premiere spot in the region for concerts. Most of the big name acts want to play in big arenas and this would definatley qualify us to do that.
By Ed Dantes
Registration Days Posts
#56380
absturgill wrote:For concerts of all types, a 20,000 seat arena would be much better off that the Roanoke Civic Center (about 10,000) and the Salem Civic Center (about 4,500). If this project goes forward, it would be the premiere spot in the region for concerts. Most of the big name acts want to play in big arenas and this would definatley qualify us to do that.
"If you build it, they will come" only works in the movies. I can't see U2 coming to Lynchburg.

And doesn't "Richmond" count as being in our region? Or D.C.?
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#56381
Well, JPJ in Charlottesville is pulling in some nice concerts.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#56392
Sorry that I put this same story in a thread in Lynchburg Life (it seemed to be a more appropriate forum).
By thepostman
#56432
at the pace this city moves and Liberty for that matter, i give it 15 years
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By bigsmooth
Registration Days Posts
#56434
i do not like the idea of playing hoops at a civic center, and then that would give the apathetic student body an excuse of not going, not unless they ran shuttles. i juust think it would take away the "home court on-campus" feel. as far as special events, i really cant see lynchburg getting the concerts and special events that JPJ is getting now. JPJ is even taking events away from richmond, and you also have to keep in mind there is not an interstate highway running through the burg. charlottesville has that, as does richmond. the roanoke civic center is getting b-list events now, so im just not sure about this idea.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#56441
CONTROL. That is the key word and sticking point with this venture. Would the school be willing to have an outside authority dictate when they can and can't have events? There are so many "last minute" things that pop up right now that displace planned events it would be an interesting marriage. The alcohol problem is not that big a deal. It is really where the city/county can make some money. As anyone can tell you, restaurants and arenas make a MINT of booze and parking. What about "luxury" boxes? For those interested in seeing how something like this would work should take a look at the Thomas and Mack Center in Vegas. While it is ON the UNLV campus, and even emblazoned with UNLV on the side, it is not run or owned by UNLV. They have been doing this for about 20 years now, and it has had some issues. (Beer sales was one) One example was Disney On Ice. This was a HUGE revenue stream (5 million plus) every year. BUT it caused the basketball teams to be away for 10 days, so no home games. They eventually were pressured into changing that, the MBB coach said "We will never win the NCAA if Mickey is in our house". (This was AFTER The Shark) Thanks to a booster, the T and M center was able to still realive some of that cash. As for Rodeo's, they have two national events there a year. The luxury boxes are always a hot item. In fact, some people sub let them for those two weeks, and it pays for the next 50 so they end up paying 0 out of pocket. Pretty sweet deal. (BTW, ex LU student is in charge of Marketing and LUxury suites there) Concerts? How would LU feel with someone like Marilyn Manson, Metallica, .50 Cent, Dixie Chicks coming to town? What about a huge gay conference? It would be good pub for that group.

SMOOTH - I can see how you would not like to have games played in a "Civic Center" especially after the great venues we are used to: Salem, Roanoke and Asheville. However, these CC's are old and ancient. More modern ones, again I will cite T and M even though it is old, and the JPJ (Someone called it The PJ yesterday) are more realistic version of what we SHOULD expect. Also, when it comes to attracting events, we will be competing WITH C'ville, Roanoke and Salem. Can we? I dunno.
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By pbow
Registration Days Posts
#56624
bigsmooth wrote:i do not like the idea of playing hoops at a civic center, and then that would give the apathetic student body an excuse of not going, not unless they ran shuttles. i juust think it would take away the "home court on-campus" feel.
In highschool my basketball team played about 85% of our games at the charleston civic center (because our high school gym only fit about 700)...and I always felt that we still had a definite home-court advantage and our fans were a part of the game just as much as when we had the games at our high school gym. So I really dont think that should be a big factor.
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By bigsmooth
Registration Days Posts
#56629
haize i realize those venues are old and outdated, but i just like an on campus facility. prime example is nc state. reynolds colisuem, on campus, and old barn, and a great home court. the RBC Center, a nice facility, but many state fans have said the atmosphere is just not the same, and the RBC is not on campus.
Last edited by bigsmooth on January 28th, 2007, 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
By thepostman
#56640
it will still be pretty much on campus anyways...they are going to have to do something as the school gets larger for things like graduation/convo, etc...I have a feeling this deal won't happen and LU will end up building it themselves and the city will be left without any say in the matter
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By PeterParker
Registration Days Posts
#56644
The public-private partnership is an interesting route to try to build a huge state of the art facility. I see also where the advisors at LU (Junior, et al) seem to realize that to be successful, something of that nature would have to pull in more acts/seminars/etc. than just the faith-based stuff that the Vines Center brings in. They also probably realize that a large percentage of profit margins come from concessions and that many of the events that draw paying customers also serve alcohol as part of the experience. With LU's long stance on alcohol consumption holding fast (at least at this point) to the good 'ol boy Baptist theology concerning the hops, it makes sense why LU is pitching this deal in this manner. This way they can say that the city owns the buildings and what the municipality chooses to do with non-LU rented time is their business as they own the building, but for LU related events, alcohol is not served.

The one cavet I see is that LU should look at structuring the deal so that their land commitment and any cash toward the deal gives them a 50/50 split of ownership with the city (and possible tax breaks.) This would give LU better bargaining clout to "blackout" the dates that would be important to them, and allow the city free reign over the remaining dates with the requisite bartering over high demand days between LU and the city. If LU still wishes to hold their party line on alcohol and other issues concerning so-called "secular" acts, this gives them the out that they do not endorse said activities, but that those offerings are sponsored by the city and that citizens of Lynchburg have a right to attend the events of their choice whether those are City sponsored or LU sponsored.

If LU donates the land, the city puts in the high capital costs and then rents it out to LU, what's to preclude 15 years hence when the citizens "forget" about LU providing the land and the city determines to buy out LU's interest in the property due to not wanting to have to share the center and the headaches with conflicting scheduling desires anymore. I would say if LU wishes to go this route, they should at least go with the 50/50 split of ownership (maintenance upkeep, operating costs, taxes, etc.) At least that way each entity has a vested interest to see the venture be successful.

Having said that, even though I mentioned in jest the River Ridge Mall location in another thread which then took on a life of its own, if RR loses a lot of tenants to the new outdoor town center thing LU is proposing, then that would be a prime spot for a Civic/Convention Center as it is within walking distance of several hotels, is not too far from the highway, and is within walking distance of LU (hey, the XC team used to run their warmup laps through the back road on the mall.) This also continues a natural spread of the LU campus from the "narrow-squeezed-between-the-highway-and-railroad-tracks" runway strip of land it used to be.

Arena Talk also discussed here:

http://flamefans.info/forums/viewtopic. ... c&start=30
Last edited by PeterParker on January 29th, 2007, 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By El Scorcho
Registration Days Posts
#56647
bigsmooth wrote:...but many state fans have said the atmosphere is just not the same, and the RBC is not on campus.
And yet, it's right next to Carter-Finley which none of the NCSU fans seem to have a problem with. :)

I don't listen to anything State fans have to say about basketball. They're just confusing the lack of a quality program with missing Reynolds.
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By PAmedic
Registration Days Posts
#56741
Spidey hit on most of the points that raised a concern in my mind.

like, 10 yrs down the road, when the 'burg has a new City Manager who we manage to tork off- and suddenly the weekends we had banked on are "unavailable" or we have trouble finding time slots for home MBB games, etc.

also, LU losing control over access for practice or even non-sporting events ,and end up paying an exorbitant fee for minimal use, then bagging the whole agreement and building their own venue on campus after all.

you know how these things tend to happen. 8)
By givemethemic
Registration Days Posts
#56820
I know that we just built an Ice Hockey arena... But would they include Hockey as one of the things offered? Would a local Hockey team possibly come to town, I know it never worked out in Roanoke but could we see the Flames playing there for some games? Would a NBDL team come back to the area? Just a few thoughts that I had.
Last edited by givemethemic on January 29th, 2007, 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By nickrichard
Registration Days Posts
#56826
Just to play a little Devil's Advocate here. There are certainly benefits to this being run by the city. If completely owned/run by the University, I see it being hard to fill up the dates with "University Sanctioned Events," thus, very hard to make it profitable. If it is run by the city, you can bring in concerts/events that LU would not necessarily bring in to fill up unused dates.

Yes, there are certainly benefits to both sides of this arguement. LU could certainly lose bargaining power down the road to schedule its own events, but I think city owned/run arena with a very detailed contract written up designating what and when LU could use the arena would be our best option.
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By PAmedic
Registration Days Posts
#56852
maybe my "fond" memories of those glorious days at City Stadium are clouding my judgement 8)
By Hold My Own
Registration Days Posts
#56853
I just dont understand how it's going to go well with having alcohol on campus, etc...if they can drink at a concert then why cant outside public drink in our parking lots?
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By PAmedic
Registration Days Posts
#56855
good point
By TDDance234
Registration Days Posts
#56862
And whats to stop the city from bringing in bands that are "out of the LU way" and all the sudden the Liberty name is attached to bands/events that don't exactly scream Christian values?

A lot of kinks to be worked out.
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