[paradox]

DOX, no I got ya. I know we approach it from different perspectives. You dont think anyone NOT at the division 1 level is worthy to be made a division 1 head coach. Got it. I think there are some out there (and it looks like someone else does too - My Side : 2 Your Side : ?? ) and have more names than the Cedarville coach. What am I not getting?

A big part of the problem is the "gotcha attitide". Why do yo need to "get" someone? There is no real need to take a little sports coversation personally. If that's what it's all about for some on this board, then it's ok with me, they certainly have the right, but in my view it takes away from the conversation.

As far as the coach thing goes, it's ok if we disagree, no need to get touchy about it.

Apparently, you would strongly favor bringing in a successful NAIA guy in here, whereas my ideal, if I thought a change was in order, would be to grab a top assistant at an overachieving mid-major such as Butler because I think that the mid-major guy would be a direct correlation to what we need to get done here.

I'm certainly not here to dis any level of competition, but that would be too huge of a step up for the guy from a place like Cedarville and creates too many unknowns and therefore a tremendous risk in my estimation.

[SuperJon]

I'm just playing devil's advocate:

You say you want someone who is used to taking "leftovers" and winning with them, and that's why you want someone from a Butler, etc. However, wouldn't a coach from D2 or something like that also be good at taking the leftovers and winning?

[paradox]

wouldn't it make more sense to go after a top assistant from a program like Butler?

Is this a JEFF MEYER reference?

No, I'm reffering to him. I think that the bridges were burned there.

[paradox]

I meant to say that I was not reffering to him: Meyer.

[paradox]

I'm just playing devil's advocate:

You say you want someone who is used to taking "leftovers" and winning with them, and that's why you want someone from a Butler, etc. However, wouldn't a coach from D2 or something like that also be good at taking the leftovers and winning?

Yea, the guy from D2 has leftovers to an extent. You may even say bottom of the barrel as far as scholarship athletes go, although there are some exceptional ones and late bloomers ect. in those ranks.

The Butler guy knows something about being a top ten team with players that we could possibly recruit here at LU and he should also know how to put that talent in a position to win at the highest level of D1 competition. The D2 guy is a dime a dozen, and looking for a guy there who could turn our program around would be like looking for a needle in a haystack as far as I'm concerned.

[SuperJon]

So what is it, needle in a hay stack or dime a dozen?

[paradox]

Gotta go for now. I'll check back later.

[paradox]

So what is it, needle in a hay stack or dime a dozen?

I'd say both


...again I'll check back later.

[SuperJon]

They're exact opposites. You can't have both.

[paradox]

They're exact opposites. You can't have both.

Successful D2 guys are a dime a dozen. The one guy in the large D2 pool that could fit in here, fix our problems, and take us to the top, would be like looking for a needle in a hay stack. Just my opinion, but that is what was meant by my previous stateement.

[Cider Jim]

The D2 guy is a dime a dozen, and looking for a guy there who could turn our program around would be like looking for a needle in a haystack

Isn't that what we found in Mel Hankinson--a D2 & NAIA coach? When Mel was here, I heard much more about his books on coaching (check amazon.com) than his actual credentials as a COACH. Mel was a academic, but not much of a coach, at least according to one of his former players that I knew.

Does anyone know if Mel's son is still coaching? (hint, hint, JB).

[Purple Haize]

DOX - I am not playing gotcha. YOu said that I don't understand what you are saying you'd explain it. I said No I got ya. Geez. If we WERE playing "gotcha" I would have gone with SJ's tact.
As for Mel, his claim to fame, outside of his vaunted book sales, was that he was an assistant at WVU when we hired him. Successful D2 coaches are NOT a dime a dozen. I would ask for some type of fact to back up your statement, but that would be like looking for a needle in a hay stack!!
Seriously, you make what appear, on the surface at least, to make good points. A few facts to back them up would be helpful.
Finally, why would I take ANYTHING you say personally? I don't know you and have never said anything germain enough to be offended by.

[nickrichard]

Does anyone know if Mel's son is still coaching? (hint, hint, JB).

You're kidding right???

[Cider Jim]

Here's a partial listing of Mel's books & instructional videos:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/00 ... =11&Go.y=7

Feel free to get a few for RD. After watching Saturday's game, they couldn't hurt--if RD can't use them here, maybe he can at his next coaching job.

[paradox]

Haize:

Fair enough.

I've stated clearly what my ideal canidate would be if I were actually in favor of a change.

Now it's your turn. Define the type of indivdual that would be your ideal and why you feel
that your guy can fix things and make us a top 15 team like Butler.

[Purple Haize]

I would like to see someone come in who looks at this as a "step up". We seem to have a tendency to get burned by going after the "NAME" candidate. I would list them, but it is too painful a memory and my therapist told me to avoid those types of triggers!
why do we have to bring someone in from a "big" time program. (Not sure why you think Butler is "Big Time" but so be it) My thought process is that there are PLENTY of successful non D1 Christian schools out there. Some I know the coaches some I don't. Lipscomb was a POWERHOUSE NAIA school, Coach Meyer is STILL considered a master of the game. He had 2 players become the all time leading scorer in college basketball history (Both scored over 4K). He resigned when they went D1 b/c he didn't agree with the move. Master's would be another example, but is a non starter due to its Liberty Connection at the moment. (Same goes for LeTourneau in Texas. However, I would LOVE to see either one on the sideline for the Flames).
My point is that having been around basketball at all levels and capacities, I am not awe struck by anyone having D1 by their name. If you bring someone in who is used to making due with less, having talent not quite as good as everyone else, having facilities that may leave something to be desired AND consistently wins they would see LU as "Nirvana" and excel in that environment. Conversely, you bring someone in who is used to having "the Best" of everything they may look at LU as 'beneath' them and as only a stepping stone.
Point being, why not look beyond "the typical"

[paradox]

Well, I used Butler as an example because they made it to the sweet-16 last year, they are currently ranked #12 in the AP, and they appear capable of beating anyone right now. I
gather that something special is going on over there in Butler and would want to tap into it,
if I were in the market for a new guy.

I can appreciate some of things that you said concerning your ideal, but find it unpersuasive nonetheless.

We do agree on one major point: LU is no place for a stepping-stone type of guy. And historically, LU has avoided coaches like that.

[Cider Jim]

Asst. Coach Mark Price at Furman might be a good fit here:

http://furmanpaladins.cstv.com/sports/m ... ark00.html

[SuperJon]

Furman?

[Cider Jim]

Sure, it's D-1 school in South Carolina from the Southern Conference, and he's got Athletes in Action experience.

[SuperJon]

I know what Furman is. Furman is in 10th place out of 11 teams, and you want to pull one of their assistants. Yea, that'll be good.

[Cider Jim]

So, Super, what coach do you want to bring in? Or would you rather stay with RD or one of his assistants?

[SuperJon]

I say, if it comes down to it, we let Jeff Barber do what he was hired to do. We should see who's actually interested. I'm sure he has more contacts than you can even dream about. Throwing out names of assistants in next to last place in a low-major (just for you LUconn) conference is just plain stupid.

[Cider Jim]

I, too, am all for Barber doing his job. I bet he will find us a basketball version of Coach Rocco, if not better.

[Purple Haize]

Asst. Coach Mark Price at Furman might be a good fit here:

http://furmanpaladins.cstv.com/sports/m ... ark00.html

I could jump on that band wagon. He would be a good fit that is for sure. Plus, I would LOVE to take him on in a FT contest!!!

DOX - My arguments are not persuasive to you because your vision is narrow. Have you thought about going into officiating??