[willflop]

The HP report made it clear the Athletic Dept was nowhere near where it needed to be in terms of Compliance. What was he doing to get the Department up to the same level as a school with a fraction of the resources like Liberty?

I agree. But at any rate, what does it look like for an athletic department to go after IX compliance, when the university as a whole isn't compliant, hasn't been trained on what that even means, and doesn't even have a coordinator to report to? If you could name one specific thing he did wrong, what would you pick? My problem with the FOF document is that it's university wide in its condemnation, and naturally all the child departments of the university inherit the university's non-compliance, and it's lacking names and details.

[Purple Haize]

To answer your 1st question: a step in the right direction

[Jonathan Carone]

My problem with the FOF document is that it's university wide in its condemnation, and naturally all the child departments of the university inherit the university's non-compliance, and it's lacking names and details.

That's by design.

[jinxy]

From the get go common sense tells you that a lot of this was media driven and where you draw the line of accountability depends on who you believe. Jerry has hitched his wagon to mccaw and has trusted his sources and what hes been told. My gut feeling from everything ive heard and read in recent days and months is that mccaw is a good man who probably was a victim of the poor system. However he was the top guy and you just have to do better. It will be impossible to ever know the whole truth.

Im just afraid that even if he is squeaky clean the public opinion court has already said "crucify" and he will be unable to use his connections to help us. I have seen la tech and abilene christians ad's both publically support him and the hire big time but thats just 2.

[Purple Haize]

From the get go common sense tells you that a lot of this was media driven and where you draw the line of accountability depends on who you believe. Jerry has hitched his wagon to mccaw and has trusted his sources and what hes been told. My gut feeling from everything ive heard and read in recent days and months is that mccaw is a good man who probably was a victim of the poor system. However he was the top guy and you just have to do better. It will be impossible to ever know the whole truth.

Im just afraid that even if he is squeaky clean the public opinion court has already said "crucify" and he will be unable to use his connections to help us. I have seen la tech and abilene christians ad's both publically support him and the hire big time but thats just 2.

So how was the gang rape media driven? How was his admitted lack of follow up media driven? Asking for a friend

[rtb72]

From the get go common sense tells you that a lot of this was media driven and where you draw the line of accountability depends on who you believe. Jerry has hitched his wagon to mccaw and has trusted his sources and what hes been told. My gut feeling from everything ive heard and read in recent days and months is that mccaw is a good man who probably was a victim of the poor system. However he was the top guy and you just have to do better. It will be impossible to ever know the whole truth.

Im just afraid that even if he is squeaky clean the public opinion court has already said "crucify" and he will be unable to use his connections to help us. I have seen la tech and abilene christians ad's both publically support him and the hire big time but thats just 2.

So how was the gang rape media driven? How was his admitted lack of follow up media driven? Asking for a friend

Maybe it's just me....but would it not go into his character somewhat. I mean, we're talking about rape! Ok...the system was flawed, the process was "followed" within whatever WEAK parameters were required....BUT as a decent person, as a Christian, would anyone with conviction NOT go beyond what was set up (job be damned) to followup on this! A rape...A RAPE.... was reported to the AD and he supposedly followed whatever protocol was in place (I'm assuming based on what my understanding is)......did he "wash his hands of it" (reference Pilate) and think he no longer had a moral obligation???? I don't know about a cover up...I really don't care. But, I cannot grasp how anyone could think they have been upright in their intention when they know about a rape and see no justice taking place....immediately. Especially when they are in a position to make a difference.

[Purple Haize]

From the get go common sense tells you that a lot of this was media driven and where you draw the line of accountability depends on who you believe. Jerry has hitched his wagon to mccaw and has trusted his sources and what hes been told. My gut feeling from everything ive heard and read in recent days and months is that mccaw is a good man who probably was a victim of the poor system. However he was the top guy and you just have to do better. It will be impossible to ever know the whole truth.

Im just afraid that even if he is squeaky clean the public opinion court has already said "crucify" and he will be unable to use his connections to help us. I have seen la tech and abilene christians ad's both publically support him and the hire big time but thats just 2.

So how was the gang rape media driven? How was his admitted lack of follow up media driven? Asking for a friend

Maybe it's just me....but would it not go into his character somewhat. I mean, we're talking about rape! Ok...the system was flawed, the process was "followed" within whatever WEAK parameters were required....BUT as a decent person, as a Christian, would anyone with conviction NOT go beyond what was set up (job be damned) to followup on this! A rape...A RAPE.... was reported to the AD and he supposedly followed whatever protocol was in place (I'm assuming based on what my understanding is)......did he "wash his hands of it" (reference Pilate) and think he no longer had a moral obligation???? I don't know about a cover up...I really don't care. But, I cannot grasp how anyone could think they have been upright in their intention when they know about a rape and see no justice taking place....immediately. Especially when they are in a position to make a difference.

To play advocate: It was only an allegation of rape and the student (in one of the 2 known incidents) didn't want to go to the Police. So we not the AD know if a gang rape really took place. I can be totally sympathetic that an allegation has the potential to be both untrue and career destroying.

[rtb72]

Maybe it's just me....but would it not go into his character somewhat. I mean, we're talking about rape! Ok...the system was flawed, the process was "followed" within whatever WEAK parameters were required....BUT as a decent person, as a Christian, would anyone with conviction NOT go beyond what was set up (job be damned) to followup on this! A rape...A RAPE.... was reported to the AD and he supposedly followed whatever protocol was in place (I'm assuming based on what my understanding is)......did he "wash his hands of it" (reference Pilate) and think he no longer had a moral obligation???? I don't know about a cover up...I really don't care. But, I cannot grasp how anyone could think they have been upright in their intention when they know about a rape and see no justice taking place....immediately. Especially when they are in a position to make a difference.[/quote]

To play advocate: It was only an allegation of rape and the student (in one of the 2 known incidents) didn't want to go to the Police. So we not the AD know if a gang rape really took place. I can be totally sympathetic that an allegation has the potential to be both untrue and career destroying.[/quote]

You're right, PH....but still. If someone came to you with such a sinister allegation, I'd think more intensity would go into ensuring vetting occurred immediately. Reporting it is fine.....but wouldn't most be so disturbed at such an offense that they would go above and beyond?

[Purple Haize]

Maybe it's just me....but would it not go into his character somewhat. I mean, we're talking about rape! Ok...the system was flawed, the process was "followed" within whatever WEAK parameters were required....BUT as a decent person, as a Christian, would anyone with conviction NOT go beyond what was set up (job be damned) to followup on this! A rape...A RAPE.... was reported to the AD and he supposedly followed whatever protocol was in place (I'm assuming based on what my understanding is)......did he "wash his hands of it" (reference Pilate) and think he no longer had a moral obligation???? I don't know about a cover up...I really don't care. But, I cannot grasp how anyone could think they have been upright in their intention when they know about a rape and see no justice taking place....immediately. Especially when they are in a position to make a difference.

To play advocate: It was only an allegation of rape and the student (in one of the 2 known incidents) didn't want to go to the Police. So we not the AD know if a gang rape really took place. I can be totally sympathetic that an allegation has the potential to be both untrue and career destroying.[/quote]

You're right, PH....but still. If someone came to you with such a sinister allegation, I'd think more intensity would go into ensuring vetting occurred immediately. Reporting it is fine.....but wouldn't most be so disturbed at such an offense that they would go above and beyond?[/quote]

Oh I would have handled it completely differently. I was just cutting you off at the pass of where others would take you.

[willflop]

We can only work with what's been reported. As PH Eluded, i think these are six alleged facts, that if true, beg the quetion for the accusers to be more specific.

1. In the one case, the victim and family
didn't want to go to the police.

2. The victim left the school after reporting it to coach

3. It was reported to JA, who informed the coach nothing could be done without cooperation from victim

4. The coach followed up with the victim again, to no avail.

5. Given party culture, it's likely a multiple reports would be circling at a given time. Some true, some false. But upon report you can't assume guilt on either side.

6. The FOF reportes that even when a full time T9 coordinator was hired, the problem was so systemic that even she failed within a year.

There seems to be a rub between idealism and what's actually possible. Maybe he failed to do what he could, but given what's claimed and reported, specifically what? If a dedicated T9 coordinator struggled, why would it be any more feasible for an AD to work from the inside out, with even less authority in this area, against the grain of the entire university?

All fhe above could be false, just organizing one side as i read it.

[Purple Haize]

We can only work with what's been reported. As PH Eluded, i think these are six alleged facts, that if true, beg the quetion for the accusers to be more specific.

1. In the one case, the victim and family
didn't want to go to the police.

2. The victim left the school after reporting it to coach

3. It was reported to JA, who informed the coach nothing could be done without cooperation from victim

4. The coach followed up with the victim again, to no avail.

5. Given party culture, it's likely a multiple reports would be circling at a given time. Some true, some false. But upon report you can't assume guilt on either side.

6. The FOF reportes that even when a full time T9 coordinator was hired, the problem was so systemic that even she failed within a year.

There seems to be a rub between idealism and what's actually possible. Maybe he failed to do what he could, but given what's claimed and reported, specifically what? If a dedicated T9 coordinator struggled, why would it be any more feasible for an AD to work from the inside out, with even less authority in this area, against the grain of the entire university?

All fhe above could be false, just organizing one side as i read it.

What about the other case?

[olldflame]

We can only work with what's been reported. As PH Eluded, i think these are six alleged facts, that if true, beg the quetion for the accusers to be more specific.

1. In the one case, the victim and family
didn't want to go to the police.

2. The victim left the school after reporting it to coach

3. It was reported to JA, who informed the coach nothing could be done without cooperation from victim

4. The coach followed up with the victim again, to no avail.

5. Given party culture, it's likely a multiple reports would be circling at a given time. Some true, some false. But upon report you can't assume guilt on either side.

6. The FOF reportes that even when a full time T9 coordinator was hired, the problem was so systemic that even she failed within a year.

There seems to be a rub between idealism and what's actually possible. Maybe he failed to do what he could, but given what's claimed and reported, specifically what? If a dedicated T9 coordinator struggled, why would it be any more feasible for an AD to work from the inside out, with even less authority in this area, against the grain of the entire university?

All fhe above could be false, just organizing one side as i read it.

What about the other case?

If I understand it correctly, the other case was something very different There was an alleged rape, and some of the accused teammates were witnesses, but wanted "immunity" before they would testify McCaw asked Judicial Affairs if this was possible and was told it was not Apparently his inquiry about immunity led to his being accused of trying to protect football players when according to McCaw it was exactly the opposite

[Purple Haize]

Here is what the Baylor report says. Which says 'multiple occasions'. And with Baylors obvious aversion to a paper trail this is quite a statement

In this case, the University can find no information that would support a conclusion that the student-athlete's head coach - or any other Athletics Department personnel - reported the incident to Judicial Affairs in 2013 or at any time since. Baylor University reviewed all of the evidence and found:

Over the course of the past year, the student-athlete's head coach, his sports administrator, the head football coach, and the Athletic Director have each independently confirmed to the University - in some instances, on multiple occasions - that they did not report this sexual assault allegation to Judicial Affairs in 2013.

An independent review of Judicial Affairs records and interviews with employees confirm that the alleged sexual assault was not reported to Judicial Affairs in 2013 by any member of the Athletics Department or any other individual.

In early 2015, Baylor's Title IX Office first learned of the sexual assault allegation in connection with three other reports of sexual assault involving multiple football players. At the time, the Athletic Director was asked if he had any prior knowledge of an alleged gang rape within the football program. He denied having any knowledge of the alleged incident. Later in 2015, for the first time, the Athletic Director acknowledged that the student-athlete's head coach told him about this report in 2013. The Athletic Director explained that he did not take any action, including reporting the alleged sexual assault to Judicial Affairs, because he thought the victim did not want to report the incident.

In a voluntary statement on June 2, 2016 and a sworn affidavit on June 24, 2016, the victim's head coach again detailed his actions after learning of the gang rape allegation. His account was consistent with the account he provided to Baylor in the spring of 2016. In neither of the statements, nor in his interview, did the head coach state that he reported the alleged assault to Judicial Affairs. To the contrary, he expressed his great disappointment and frustration that he could not do more to help the student-athlete despite bringing the report to the attention of his sports administrator, the head football coach, and the Athletic Director.

I would think, if I were HMIC, that I would try to address these since there is a lot of confusion over how many incidents there were. I guess I don't understand the tactic of being obtuse and belligerent over legitimate concerns and questions.
Despite its huge success, I'm not someone who likes what warrant has to say
[youtube]uNoJ9YHtqq0[/youtube]

[olldflame]

I find it curious that we have all these statements from "Baylor" and "Judicial Affairs" but none of them have a name attached to them We know who Ian McCaw is Who is "Baylor" Who is "Judicial Affairs"

It seems the victim's coach is the person who could really tell us the truth in this Did he lie to McCaw in telling him he reported it, Did he lie to the nameless "Baylor" and say he didn't Is "Baylor" lieing Is McCaw lieing, or is Judicial Affairs covering their own butts because they were so totally incompetent (or so in the pocket of the football program) they never did anything after the incident was reported My money would be on the last one

[willflop]

Yea, it seems to boil down to Baylor lying vs. McCaw and the KWTX news “sources” lying, since they contradict and qualify this Baylor statement. Or, they are equivocating on the word “report,” another real possibility. Would be nice if Ian could do a line by line response, himself.

[prototype]

To play advocate: It was only an allegation of rape and the student (in one of the 2 known incidents) didn't want to go to the Police. So we not the AD know if a gang rape really took place..

See Haize - you just said what I have been saying the whole time.......

[Class of 20Something]

I would think, if I were HMIC, that I would try to address these since there is a lot of confusion over how many incidents there were. I guess I don't understand the tactic of being obtuse and belligerent over legitimate concerns and questions.

I believe it has to be at the advice of counsel. If the lawsuit is still pending, even apologizing could be used as an admission of guilt in the courts. Simply saying sorry would make him the sole target. He is probably repentant about the situation, but can't voice it because of pending litigation.

[olldflame]

If this is not correct, someone jump in and straighten me out, because the more I read, the stranger this gets Is it true that:

The only Baylor employee the victim has spoken to is her HC
She told her coach what happened and gave him names, then left town the next day
She has since refused to pursue legal action OR cooperate in any way with any investigation going on

[Purple Haize]

If this is not correct, someone jump in and straighten me out, because the more I read, the stranger this gets Is it true that:

The only Baylor employee the victim has spoken to is her HC
She told her coach what happened and gave him names, then left town the next day
She has since refused to pursue legal action OR cooperate in any way with any investigation going on

There is more than one incident. The facts on that one you have stated fairly accurately. That's not uncommon from the students perspective. But I'm not sure if this is the one where the Coach went to the AD and it was reported or the one that was not reported

[Purple Haize]

I find it curious that we have all these statements from "Baylor" and "Judicial Affairs" but none of them have a name attached to them We know who Ian McCaw is Who is "Baylor" Who is "Judicial Affairs"

It seems the victim's coach is the person who could really tell us the truth in this Did he lie to McCaw in telling him he reported it, Did he lie to the nameless "Baylor" and say he didn't Is "Baylor" lieing Is McCaw lieing, or is Judicial Affairs covering their own butts because they were so totally incompetent (or so in the pocket of the football program) they never did anything after the incident was reported My money would be on the last one

Not really. Most Corporate Entities do that.

[KingsKId]

Appreciate everybody's sincere effort to uncover the truth about "a specific incident" but that is not the reason that LU is getting drilled by the national media. It is about the "culture" that was allowed to exist at Baylor and that is what myself and most others are distressed by. 17 allegations of sexual assault or domestic violence against football players since 2011. We keep discussing one incident. Are we all aware that two different Baylor football players are currently doing prison time for rape convictions. A third player has been indicted. People have talked about "even the Title IX coordinator left after a year". Yes she did because of frustration over the institutions inability to hold the athletes and coaches accountable. Are we aware that there are multiple pending lawsuits coming up in Federal Court naming Baylor University and Ian McCaw as well as others as defendants. I don't know what's true and what's not. I do know that a bunch of lawyers have reason to believe that McCaw has some level of culpability. I know that many in this nation have been looking at this Baylor thing with curious interest. I know we just elected an individual who has been accused of some unseemly things along the lines of sexual assault, which has created a national discourse on the subject. Hence you think the esteemed leader of our university would have some level of sensitivity to this particular individual and the timing. It is indefensible to have made this hire when he did. There is no reason this hire couldn't have been made at a later date when a judicial vetting was completed. Mickey Guridy is quite capable of acting as an interim AD if JR was so sold on McCaw. I can assure you that it wasn't like another university might swoop in and grab him. Ian McCaw may be a great guy, he may not be. What is indisputable is that he was not the only candidate in America that could advance LU's long term interests. Equally indisputable is the reality that in fact, in light of current events, there is not a more toxic candidate that Jerry Jr could have chosen. The pending litigation may over time indeed somehow exonerate McCaw ( although that is becoming increasingly harder to believe based on the facts) however regardless of the outcome, nothing will remove the stigma of a university president who is so out of touch with the realities of the market place and the long term implications of his actions.

[Purple Haize]

Look. Jerry had a couple of people spend several days vetting Ian and every single allegations. It was almost 2 whole weeks. Plus, Jerry personally talked to some people too.

[flameshaw]

http://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Libert ... 86756.html

[Purple Haize]

http://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Libert ... e-40388675

Page Not Found

[Jonathan Carone]

Baylor’s former Title IX Coordinator, Patty Crawford, says it’s unlikely McCaw, Briles or the woman’s coach would have known exactly how or to whom to report the incident the player did not want reported to police because they hadn’t been trained about how to handle such a situation.

“I had no records of any trainings for anyone that worked at Baylor regarding what, how or where to report allegations from before the fall of 2014,” she said in an emailed statement.

“When I arrived at Baylor (in the fall of 2014), I asked for all previous records from the title IX coordinators that proceeded me, I was only given the records from Juan Alejandro who was the interim coordinator before I was hired ( from July to November 2014). There were no training records from any title IX coordinator before me,’ she said.

“I would say that Baylor's ‘facts’ continue to be skewed to only protect the people at the top that never gave institutional support or prioritization to the important programming in order to at least attempt to comply prior to the creation of my former position,” Crawford said.

Crawford resigned from the school in early October.

That whole place down there is a mess.