[willflop]

Exactly. Common sense almost doesn't apply here. Old-school common sense would say, "Let me inform the coach of the program of the allegations, and let him decide what to do." But that is no longer right, and I've argued for years AD's shouldn't keep allowing coaches to build walls around their programs, as "Kings of their Kingdoms" so to speak.

Some theorizing from the Baylor message boards. Seems consistent with the tone of the Findings of Fact, as I read it, discussed above.

http://www.baylorfans.com/forums/showth ... p?t=317070

The Real Story

Here's what happening and its clear as day to me:

The sexual assault issues at Baylor were a collective problem that threatened the BOR first and foremost - they're at the top of the totem poll.

Sexual assault happened and yes we did fail the women, but it was a collective failure that could have easily been settled and reworked as it has been at multiple universities with the highest members taking the blame. No direct person was responsible for mishandling this and the BOR are to take the blame for what transpired naturally.

This whole thing revolved around Ken Starr, the BOR along with the failure to implement, administrate and take care of title IX and the protection from repercussions of not doing so.

The BOR has worked to protect their names, companies, welfare and finances all along. To keep their names from being tarnished which could result in some serious problems for many of the members.

Everyone knows there was bad blood with Starr and the BOR. Most of the title IX issues lied outside of Football but football was at the spotlight thanks to ESPN and UT media. The ease of using football and title IX was the perfect excuse.

It was designed to make them look like heroes.

Ken knew he was toast so he hired a liberal law firm whos been in trouble before for divided loyalties: "PH created a situation in which the law firm had 'unavoidable and inevitable divided loyalties.'" Thus the complaint alleged that Pepper "foreseeably contributed to the financial demise of SFC" and caused "hundreds of millions of dollars of harm." They settled this lawsuit in 2007. You Must Be Registered and Logged On To View "URL" BBCode Contents...


What is unclear is exactly what PH reported. Nobody knows this except for the BOR. They can literally tell us whatever they want us to believe...which is the largest abuse of power in all of this.

BOR is Unwilling to release/request written report: because no one was guilty of what transpired at Baylor. No one. There is no smoking gun. In fact Baylor admitted to this recently. That is something we know doesn't exist in the PH report because it would have made the BOR's agenda fullproof.

To justify firing Briles, make Ian look take guilt and demoting Ken Starr they adopted the court of public opinion's verdict which has always been Art is 100% guilty.

The settlements are proof that they were unable to find anyone guilty enough to fire for cause, so they adopted the court of public opinion's verdict. This resulted in Baylor alumni not only asking questions and looking for a smoking gun but the public's thirst for more damage against Baylor to increase. It was blood for a shark.

The PR firm and BOR did not see this coming and after remaining employees were being attacked (assistant coaches, administration, patty,) they completely failed in public relations creating further divide between the alumni/administration and the BOR.

We saw #CAB, BLR and so on and we started understanding what was happening.

After time has passed they are looking to hire a new coach as a Band-Aid which we all know will probably be a disaster as well. After a few years maybe things will cool down and they will have successfully yet poorly scapegoated Art, Ken and co. and successfully restored their power and kept their names out of harms way.

Other Universities looking to hire Briles and Co. will release information as to what really happened to justify...in fact Liberty did so yesterday with Ian McCaw. Someone will hire Briles, there will be a backlash but the assistant coaches will tell their story and Baylor will look bad in the long run.

Concerning Art: Not saying he was guilt free. He didn't handle a lot of things correctly which he admitted to. Like I said it was a collective failure, he didn't check and he was unchecked as a result of failure by the BOR and even administration above him. Nothing warranted him being fired or his name destroyed. There was no intent for harm on Art's part, something he's said all along. There's no evidence to make that claim either.

The full story will come out someday.

The truth don't lie.

Last edited by BEAR RAMMAGE; 11-30-16 at 11:43 AM.

[TH Spangler]

But everyone associated with LU in any way, needs to get behind the new AD and support him, as he embarks on his new job.

I know it's just ballcoach who said this, but this is a line of thinking that permeates through that is simply unhealthy.

I support University the institution, not the individuals who make up the institution.

So you hang out here and .......

[youtube]bw4pnQNbBxE[/youtube]

By the way, that's a cute baby you have

[alabama24]

I honestly don't know much about this situation, but this is an interesting read which casts a different picture: http://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Libert ... 86756.html

The most interesting thing to me is what the Title IX director had to say:

"Baylor’s former Title IX Coordinator, Patty Crawford, says it’s unlikely McCaw, Briles or the woman’s coach would have known exactly how or to whom to report the incident the player did not want reported to police because they hadn’t been trained about how to handle such a situation.

“I had no records of any trainings for anyone that worked at Baylor regarding what, how or where to report allegations from before the fall of 2014,” she said in an emailed statement.

“When I arrived at Baylor (in the fall of 2014), I asked for all previous records from the title IX coordinators that proceeded me, I was only given the records from Juan Alejandro who was the interim coordinator before I was hired ( from July to November 2014). There were no training records from any title IX coordinator before me,’ she said.

“I would say that Baylor's ‘facts’ continue to be skewed to only protect the people at the top that never gave institutional support or prioritization to the important programming in order to at least attempt to comply prior to the creation of my former position,” Crawford said.

Crawford resigned from the school in early October."

[R i]

http://www.baylorfans.com/forums/showth ... p?t=317070

The Real Story

Here's what happening and its clear as day to me:

The sexual assault issues at Baylor were a collective problem that threatened the BOR first and foremost - they're at the top of the totem poll.

Sexual assault happened and yes we did fail the women, but it was a collective failure that could have easily been settled and reworked as it has been at multiple universities with the highest members taking the blame. No direct person was responsible for mishandling this and the BOR are to take the blame for what transpired naturally.

This whole thing revolved around Ken Starr, the BOR along with the failure to implement, administrate and take care of title IX and the protection from repercussions of not doing so.

The BOR has worked to protect their names, companies, welfare and finances all along. To keep their names from being tarnished which could result in some serious problems for many of the members.

Everyone knows there was bad blood with Starr and the BOR. Most of the title IX issues lied outside of Football but football was at the spotlight thanks to ESPN and UT media. The ease of using football and title IX was the perfect excuse.

It was designed to make them look like heroes.

Ken knew he was toast so he hired a liberal law firm whos been in trouble before for divided loyalties: "PH created a situation in which the law firm had 'unavoidable and inevitable divided loyalties.'" Thus the complaint alleged that Pepper "foreseeably contributed to the financial demise of SFC" and caused "hundreds of millions of dollars of harm." They settled this lawsuit in 2007. You Must Be Registered and Logged On To View "URL" BBCode Contents...


What is unclear is exactly what PH reported. Nobody knows this except for the BOR. They can literally tell us whatever they want us to believe...which is the largest abuse of power in all of this.

BOR is Unwilling to release/request written report: because no one was guilty of what transpired at Baylor. No one. There is no smoking gun. In fact Baylor admitted to this recently. That is something we know doesn't exist in the PH report because it would have made the BOR's agenda fullproof.

To justify firing Briles, make Ian look take guilt and demoting Ken Starr they adopted the court of public opinion's verdict which has always been Art is 100% guilty.

The settlements are proof that they were unable to find anyone guilty enough to fire for cause, so they adopted the court of public opinion's verdict. This resulted in Baylor alumni not only asking questions and looking for a smoking gun but the public's thirst for more damage against Baylor to increase. It was blood for a shark.

The PR firm and BOR did not see this coming and after remaining employees were being attacked (assistant coaches, administration, patty,) they completely failed in public relations creating further divide between the alumni/administration and the BOR.

We saw #CAB, BLR and so on and we started understanding what was happening.

After time has passed they are looking to hire a new coach as a Band-Aid which we all know will probably be a disaster as well. After a few years maybe things will cool down and they will have successfully yet poorly scapegoated Art, Ken and co. and successfully restored their power and kept their names out of harms way.

Other Universities looking to hire Briles and Co. will release information as to what really happened to justify...in fact Liberty did so yesterday with Ian McCaw. Someone will hire Briles, there will be a backlash but the assistant coaches will tell their story and Baylor will look bad in the long run.

Concerning Art: Not saying he was guilt free. He didn't handle a lot of things correctly which he admitted to. Like I said it was a collective failure, he didn't check and he was unchecked as a result of failure by the BOR and even administration above him. Nothing warranted him being fired or his name destroyed. There was no intent for harm on Art's part, something he's said all along. There's no evidence to make that claim either.

The full story will come out someday.

The truth don't lie.

Last edited by BEAR RAMMAGE; 11-30-16 at 11:43 AM.

I get lost with the length and abbreviations, but basically this bear fan is claiming the Board of Regents is to blame, and they used Art and Ian as scapegoats. I cant say that I agree, because I do not fully understand, but it sounds reasonable.

[Jonathan Carone]

I can buy the Regents and University being to blame considering they purposefully have not gotten written reports of the investigations because they didn't want a paper trail in case of lawsuits.

The more I look into this, the more I'm convinced we're never going to truly know McCaw's role in all this.

[willflop]

I get lost with the length and abbreviations, but basically this bear fan is claiming the Board of Regents is to blame, and they used Art and Ian as scapegoats. I cant say that I agree, because I do not fully understand, but it sounds reasonable.

Right. It boils down to this, from how I’m reading it: Briles/McCaw did report it via the avenue they had (the judiciary office); the avenue they had was not adequate, and ultimately didn’t follow proper protocol; the reason it wasn’t adequiate is because high level administration (Board of Regents, or the president), failed to implement title IX when they were supposed to. The fact that they were not fired with cause (Briles made millions on the buy out), was because to prove that Briles was guilty enough to be fired with cause would be self-indicting against the BOR. Why didn’t they implement title IX sooner, when they were supposed to? Was it that the BOR, just as much as any coach or AD, didn’t want their reputation or winning to be hampered?

This Baylor fan is actually really consistent with what alabama24 just posted, from a Waco news source: http://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Libert ... 86756.html. It’s also consistent with the very vague language of the “Findings of Fact” document, about who was to blame.

[Purple Haize]

That depends on what incident you are talking about. Here is what Baylor says
http://www.baylor.edu/thefacts/news.php ... ory=174834

It's done. It's over. He's the AD and any ethical concerns he damned.

[willflop]

Are these talking about different incidents? I assumed they were the same, but you can see the obvious rub between these two different sources:

http://www.baylor.edu/thefacts/news.php ... ory=174834

To place the news accounts in context, here are the facts about the underlying report of sexual assault: In April 2013, a female student-athlete reported to her head coach that she had been sexually assaulted by five Baylor football players approximately one year earlier. The student-athlete provided her head coach with the names of the involved football players. The head coach immediately reported the assault, including the names of the reported players, to the then-Athletic Director, to the head football coach, and to the sports administrator for the female student-athlete's team. According to Baylor's investigation, neither the head coach, the Athletic Director, the sports administrator or the football coach disclosed the reported sexual assault to Baylor's Judicial Affairs or to anyone else outside of the Athletics Department.

http://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Libert ... 86756.html

Baylor responded on Nov. 11 when it issued the statement that said a previous voluntary statement and sworn affidavit by the woman’s coach did not mention that judicial affairs was contacted.

KWTX obtained both of those documents and confirmed judicial affairs is not mentioned.

However, sources told KWTX the woman’s coach said the information regarding judicial affairs was not included because no one asked about it.

Those sources say the coach not only maintains he contacted Judicial Affairs, but also that he told Pepper Hamilton investigators about the call.

The sources said that the law firm’s investigators recorded the interview in which he made the statement and that the coach recalled that the investigators said the report could have been made without the woman’s consent.

Pepper Hamilton investigators never talked to the alleged victim or players involved, the sources say, and Baylor has never contacted the woman’s coach to confirm details about the incident.

[R i]

Is it possible he "fell on the sword" for the brass, that was his short comings in all of this. He was loyal to the BOR. They all speak so highly of him apparently.

[olldflame]

Is it possible he "fell on the sword" for the brass, that was his short comings in all of this. He was loyal to the BOR. They all speak so highly of him apparently.

Those were exactly the words JLFJR used in his sportsline interview

[Jonathan Carone]

Is it possible he "fell on the sword" for the brass, that was his short comings in all of this. He was loyal to the BOR. They all speak so highly of him apparently.

That's the narrative coming from our admin. It's the narrative I want to believe as well. It's just impossible to know for sure.

[Yacht Rock]

It's absolutely clear that Baylor didn't have the resources in place to handle this and people weren't trained properly. But, that doesn't excuse McCaw, it just makes him an ignorant player in an ugly game and someone I wouldn't want running things.

As a leader, it's his job to follow up and ensure that things are being addressed, procedure or not. A good leader can do the right thing even when those above them haven't created the path for them to take. Those leaders are trailblazers and set an example for others. If you need to rely on regulations to stay on top of rape allegations among students in your charge, and don't do anything absent a regulation telling you how to handle it, I question your judgement.

Are there more facts? I'm sure there are but the facts we have now don't paint a pretty picture and McCaw will have a lot to explain once his legal troubles are over.

[Purple Haize]

Is it possible he "fell on the sword" for the brass, that was his short comings in all of this. He was loyal to the BOR. They all speak so highly of him apparently.

That's the narrative coming from our admin. It's the narrative I want to believe as well. It's just impossible to know for sure.

They are also claiming 'innocent bystander' status. Do you really want someone who is the head of a multi million dollar enterprise being a 'by stander'? Sounds similar to 'leading from behind'

[willflop]

It's absolutely clear that Baylor didn't have the resources in place to handle this and people weren't trained properly. But, that doesn't excuse McCaw, it just makes him an ignorant player in an ugly game and someone I wouldn't want running things.

As a leader, it's his job to follow up and ensure that things are being addressed, procedure or not. A good leader can do the right thing even when those above them haven't created the path for them to take. Those leaders are trailblazers and set an example for others. If you need to rely on regulations to stay on top of rape allegations among students in your charge, and don't do anything absent a regulation telling you how to handle it, I question your judgement.

Are there more facts? I'm sure there are but the facts we have now don't paint a pretty picture and McCaw will have a lot to explain once his legal troubles are over.

I really have no idea in this, but what would you have advised he do, if the following were true: 1) the victim in question didn’t want to go to the police; 2) the victim left the school the day after reporting it; and 3) after reporting it to the judiciary office, the judiciary office told him there was nothing they could do without her cooperation; 4) he has no way of knowing if the report is even 100% true (i'd assume)?

[Yacht Rock]

Is it possible he "fell on the sword" for the brass, that was his short comings in all of this. He was loyal to the BOR. They all speak so highly of him apparently.

That's the narrative coming from our admin. It's the narrative I want to believe as well. It's just impossible to know for sure.

They are also claiming 'innocent bystander' status. Do you really want someone who is the head of a multi million dollar enterprise being a 'by stander'? Sounds similar to 'leading from behind'

Yeah, this is my issue. I understand that an entry level person might learn about something and not know who to talk to, but good leaders should know better.

It's pretty obvious he didn't know what was going on in his organization, which has nothing to do with Title IX.

[olldflame]

It's absolutely clear that Baylor didn't have the resources in place to handle this and people weren't trained properly. But, that doesn't excuse McCaw, it just makes him an ignorant player in an ugly game and someone I wouldn't want running things.

As a leader, it's his job to follow up and ensure that things are being addressed, procedure or not. A good leader can do the right thing even when those above them haven't created the path for them to take. Those leaders are trailblazers and set an example for others. If you need to rely on regulations to stay on top of rape allegations among students in your charge, and don't do anything absent a regulation telling you how to handle it, I question your judgement.

Are there more facts? I'm sure there are but the facts we have now don't paint a pretty picture and McCaw will have a lot to explain once his legal troubles are over.

So, at this point we are condemning the man for failing to rise above the dumpster fire that was the Baylor "system" for reporting sexual abuse and find a way "Be a trailblazer" Easy to set such a high standard for someone else

Here is the irony of this IMHO Based on his track record for getting things done as AD at Baylor, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that if 5 years ago Baylor's President had assigned Ian McCall the task of implementing a system for handling this in accordance with DOE regulations and given him the resources to do it, there would have been a workable system in a timely manner, and the outcome of all this would have been much different The people that were responsible for that were Ken Starr and the BOR, and they failed miserably

[Yacht Rock]

I'm saying if someone comes to you with rape allegations and you don't have a rock solid system for processing such claims, you don't just delegate it and move on. If there are institutional failings, he should have recognized that and pressed further. Yeah, it's a crappy situation to work somewhere that doesn't have a good process for that, but I can tell you I've had to manage similar claims years ago as a leader and didn't always have "the process" to fall back on. I guess that's why I don't see how it's that hard to be more vigilant.

[Purple Haize]

It's absolutely clear that Baylor didn't have the resources in place to handle this and people weren't trained properly. But, that doesn't excuse McCaw, it just makes him an ignorant player in an ugly game and someone I wouldn't want running things.

As a leader, it's his job to follow up and ensure that things are being addressed, procedure or not. A good leader can do the right thing even when those above them haven't created the path for them to take. Those leaders are trailblazers and set an example for others. If you need to rely on regulations to stay on top of rape allegations among students in your charge, and don't do anything absent a regulation telling you how to handle it, I question your judgement.

Are there more facts? I'm sure there are but the facts we have now don't paint a pretty picture and McCaw will have a lot to explain once his legal troubles are over.

So, at this point we are condemning the man for failing to rise above the dumpster fire that was the Baylor "system" for reporting sexual abuse and find a way "Be a trailblazer" Easy to set such a high standard for someone else

Here is the irony of this IMHO Based on his track record for getting things done as AD at Baylor, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that if 5 years ago Baylor's President had assigned Ian McCall the task of implementing a system for handling this in accordance with DOE regulations and given him the resources to do it, there would have been a workable system in a timely manner, and the outcome of all this would have been much different The people that were responsible for that were Ken Starr and the BOR, and they failed miserably

He was part of 'The System'. He was head of an athletic department that was woefully lacking a TitleIX Department. The School as a whole is one issue. But what about his area of responsibility? What was he doing to make the Athletic Department Title IX compliant. That's not an issue of Trailblazing. It's an issue of compotence

[olldflame]

It's absolutely clear that Baylor didn't have the resources in place to handle this and people weren't trained properly. But, that doesn't excuse McCaw, it just makes him an ignorant player in an ugly game and someone I wouldn't want running things.

As a leader, it's his job to follow up and ensure that things are being addressed, procedure or not. A good leader can do the right thing even when those above them haven't created the path for them to take. Those leaders are trailblazers and set an example for others. If you need to rely on regulations to stay on top of rape allegations among students in your charge, and don't do anything absent a regulation telling you how to handle it, I question your judgement.

Are there more facts? I'm sure there are but the facts we have now don't paint a pretty picture and McCaw will have a lot to explain once his legal troubles are over.

So, at this point we are condemning the man for failing to rise above the dumpster fire that was the Baylor "system" for reporting sexual abuse and find a way "Be a trailblazer" Easy to set such a high standard for someone else

Here is the irony of this IMHO Based on his track record for getting things done as AD at Baylor, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that if 5 years ago Baylor's President had assigned Ian McCall the task of implementing a system for handling this in accordance with DOE regulations and given him the resources to do it, there would have been a workable system in a timely manner, and the outcome of all this would have been much different The people that were responsible for that were Ken Starr and the BOR, and they failed miserably

He was part of 'The System'. He was head of an athletic department that was woefully lacking a TitleIX Department. The School as a whole is one issue. But what about his area of responsibility? What was he doing to make the Athletic Department Title IX compliant. That's not an issue of Trailblazing. It's an issue of compotence

If Baylor is not in compliance in regard to it's athletic teams (not enough females on scholarship) that is the AD's fault Sexual Assault is school wide Suggesting he should have "gone rogue" and set something up just for athletics because the school hadn't done it is really silly

[willflop]

Agreed, it's one thing to say that he could have done more (probably should have and would if he could, now), but an AD is not the IX coordinator or the rape police. It seems to confuse roles, just because it's a high level position. Secondly, the issue isn't so much "did he drop the ball," it's did he "intentionally cover up rape." The latter question is more pressing, at least for starters, given that's how he's being shredded in the media.

[olldflame]

Agreed, it's one thing to say that he could have done more (probably should have and would if he could, now), but an AD is not the IX coordinator or the rape police. It seems to confuse roles, just because it's a high level position. Secondly, the issue isn't so much "did he drop the ball," it's did he "intentionally cover up rape." The latter question is more pressing, at least for starters, given that's how he's being shredded in the media.

Agreed I have a big problem with people using the term "cover up" here That clearly implies an effort to prevent the perpetrators from facing discipline I do not see facts supporting that McCaw did anything like that and everything we hear about the man screams that he wouldn't There are a lot of contradicting statements on the specific incident involving McCaw The Baylor website says that the incident was never reported to Judicial Affairs McCaw says (per Jerry) that after he directed the victim's coach to report it, he confirmed that he did I have no idea who was involved in Judicial Affairs, but considering how ineffective the whole system was, who is to say they were not the ones who "covered up"

[Purple Haize]

Agreed, it's one thing to say that he could have done more (probably should have and would if he could, now), but an AD is not the IX coordinator or the rape police. It seems to confuse roles, just because it's a high level position. Secondly, the issue isn't so much "did he drop the ball," it's did he "intentionally cover up rape." The latter question is more pressing, at least for starters, given that's how he's being shredded in the media.

The 2 issues are somewhat intertwined but in an separate them out and more then willing to do do
The HP report made it clear the Athletic Dept was nowhere near where it needed to be in terms of Compliance. What was he doing to get the Department up to the same level as a school with a fraction of the resources like Liberty?
There was more then one incident being investigated so it's important to clarify which incident you are referring. Just to reference the one he knew about, to say to the coach 'handle it' and do no follow up is amazing.
There are just a lot of questions that any NORMAL Institution would lay out answers to instead of saying 'Trust us. We talked to people and they like him'. There is a lot there. Again the bottom line, this is Jerry's school. He can do what he wants.

[thepostman]

I would love to know our resident expert of all things Texas thinks about this whole deal. Where has the sly fox been???? I need his expert analysis.

[adam42381]

I would love to know our resident expert of all things Texas thinks about this whole deal. Where has the sly fox been???? I need his expert analysis.

Sly is probably part of the consulting team that brought McCaw to Liberty.

[olldflame]

I would love to know our resident expert of all things Texas thinks about this whole deal. Where has the sly fox been???? I need his expert analysis.

I'm pretty sure I recall him saying he was off galivanting in Europe somewhere (working, actually) but I do believe they have the interweb over there Maybe he is "investigating"