[thepostman]

a small point...there aren't many people on this board that have gone as far as he did when it has to do with the coaching situation, I know that I haven't

I love RD and think he is a good man....I would never say anything bad about him...and most people feel the same....liking a guy and thinking he should still be coach if things don't get better are two different things...

Chris I think that you are a lot like me...if people attack me or call me out I could care less really...but when people do that to others I get more upset...I don't know...maybe you aren't like that, but that is how i am....

with that said...paradox has taken his love of RD to an unhealthy level...he just needs to calm down a bit

[Purple Haize]

The haters are taking the Chris Lang exchange just a little too hard as they do with most things.

If Chris an I were having this exchange over a couple of beers, we'd be smiling.

I just couldn't resist at taking a pop at the whole objectivity thing, especially when it seems to be subtley stating the case against Dunton and any progress that this team has made.

I am aware of the difficulties surrounding his line of work, and he certainly has a right to state his opinion in any way he that he chooses.

Actually, I like Chris, and I value his comments

This statement brought to you by the John Kerry School of Humor and Jokes. Enroll know and receive the free DVD "I Was Against Chris Lang Before I was For Chris Lang" and "It's not a flip, if you flop"

[JDUB]

that was dirty. why did you have to bring kerry into this

[JDUB]

now we know paradox has what it takes to be a politician... at least a democrat

[thepostman]

no you got it right the first time, a politician....republicans are just as bad as democrats...

[Chris Lang]

postman, I don't mind being called out. I probably deserve it sometimes. As for Haize's Kerry comments, that made me chuckle.

[thepostman]

yeah...i don't think you deserved it in this case...I can see how he could get some of his stuff...but he questioned your overall credibility...but anyways, this is dumb...why the heck am I still posting about this...we freaking won tonight, I could care less about this anymore..I am done with this, and the jury is still out on Coach D and his future with this team until the end of the season...that is the approach I think most of us are taking anyways....

[SuperJon]

Once again the professor gets the line of the day award.

[PAmedic]

you steal my line for a sig and don't give me any props

[SuperJon]

Cause it was way too Soulforce for credit.

[paradox]

Paradox, I understand where you're coming from, honestly, and I can see where you might infer that I'm subtly doing this or that by what I posted. Message board tone is hard to read, but believe me, I meant nothing sinister by putting the RPI numbers out there. They are what they are.

Which is probably why I shouldn't have posted it on one of these Dunton threads. Should have put it somewhere else. Just got caught up in the conversation and the direction the thread was going.

That's fine and I'm cool with that and I appreciate your response.

However, I thought it nessasary to respond to the "absolutely nothing has changed" part. I don't believe that RPI tells the whole story in terms of where this team is now in comparison to last year, and that particular point has been a big part of this thread. There is a case to be made in terms of this team heading in the right direction and I'm going to continue to have fun making that case.

I kinda took it as masked objectivity, when let's face it, just about everything said here is mostly speculation, interpretation, conjecture, and in the end, subjectivity. Even RPI's and such can only be at best a guide and at worst just another opinion if we breakdown all of the assumptions and variables involved within its metric.

I'll go as far as to say that I can totally see why many feel that a coaching change may be in order. But the level of contempt by those who hate Dunton seems to be disproportionate with what it should be , in my view.

That being said, my response to you was more of a response and counter to them because you are viewed highly on this board and therefore speaking from a position of almost unquestioned authority in their minds. I just had to have a little fun with that and watch these guys go off.

If you say you didn't mean it the way that it was taken then I'm cool with that. And I may have made more of it, just to razzle these guys up, but for me, it's all in fun and certainly nothing personal.

[paradox]

Again, I ask. WHY THE HECK IS HE IN THE SITUATION OF HAVING TO REBUILD A MESS? WHO IS THE ONE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT??
(there is certainly no one left around to blame)

This is a completely valid point and as a Dunton supporter, I'm sorry, but I don't have a sufficiant answer.

I don't know if anyone outside of the inner sanctums of this university knows all of the details involving the departure of Dees, Robinson, and Miller. I'm sure there are alot of whispers on this one, but does anyone know for sure if Dunton could have accomodated the situation but may have chosen not to because it was determined by RD and the administration that the university and the program would be better off in the long run? Who knows for sure?

I'm sure that the two Jerry's and Dunton have come to some kind of understanding on this
matter, and what that understanding is, only they know.

I will say this though, Jerry Sr's ties to Dunton run a little deeper than you may think. The two have a fairly long association with one another.

Either way, I'm sure that there is some level of understanding as to where this program is now and where it is headed and why.

If we knew everything, we may all have a different take on the thing.

As for me, I'm gonna keep supporting these guys because I believe we are moving forward.

[Chris Lang]

You're right, the absolutely nothing has changed thing was a bit over the top, because something has changed, at least the talent level has. But I had just gotten done sitting through that debacle at Asheville, and I'm thinking to myself ... "all this talk about how everything has gotten better here, yet there's Liberty getting run off the floor by an inferior opponent. Just like last season." (In truth, the same feeling sort of hit me during the Coastal football game, when it seemed like LU was going to lose every conference game by two points again.)

That game was a serious red flag because it was a total carbon copy of that game last year at Longwood. Anyone trying to find positives out of Saturday's game was knee deep in Kool-Aid. But it is what it was ... one game. The beauty of college basketball is that one game won't kill you. Had the momentum from that one game carried into last night, and Liberty had lost to Radford, the potential for the coaching staff completely losing the team was there.

So credit goes out to the staff for getting things right and making some serious adjustments during the two days between games. As bad as Liberty was defensively at Asheville, it made a complete 180 degree turn and was smothering in the first half against Radford. The game was over by the first media timeout of the second half. They showed a little toughness. They learned. That's a good sign for you guys. This team appears to be coachable. Credit goes to the players, specifically Smith and Blair, for admitting they were a little embarrassed by the film of the UNCA game and doing something to rectify it.

Results are results and the RPI is what it is ... it's a hard number and a measuring stick. But there's a lot of season left to be played, so it's not an end-all number yet.

[Hold My Own]

Again, I ask. WHY THE HECK IS HE IN THE SITUATION OF HAVING TO REBUILD A MESS? WHO IS THE ONE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT??
(there is certainly no one left around to blame)

I will say this though, Jerry Sr's ties to Dunton run a little deeper than you may think. The two have a fairly long association with one another.

Also as a Dunton supporter I will say Jerry's ties no longer matter...he's taken his hands off Athletics...dont get me wrong, he'll give his opinion but for the most part he stays clear...heck he's been voted down on a few and thats ok with him simply b/c he has someone he can trust in the oval office

I have confidence we'll turn this thing around...and if/when he stays it will be for only one reason, he deserved to not b/c of ties or anything else

[Hold My Own]

You're right, the absolutely nothing has changed thing was a bit over the top, because something has changed, at least the talent level has. But I had just gotten done sitting through that debacle at Asheville, and I'm thinking to myself ... "all this talk about how everything has gotten better here, yet there's Liberty getting run off the floor by an inferior opponent. Just like last season." (In truth, the same feeling sort of hit me during the Coastal football game, when it seemed like LU was going to lose every conference game by two points again.)

That game was a serious red flag because it was a total carbon copy of that game last year at Longwood. Anyone trying to find positives out of Saturday's game was knee deep in Kool-Aid. But it is what it was ... one game. The beauty of college basketball is that one game won't kill you. Had the momentum from that one game carried into last night, and Liberty had lost to Radford, the potential for the coaching staff completely losing the team was there.

So credit goes out to the staff for getting things right and making some serious adjustments during the two days between games. As bad as Liberty was defensively at Asheville, it made a complete 180 degree turn and was smothering in the first half against Radford. The game was over by the first media timeout of the second half. They showed a little toughness. They learned. That's a good sign for you guys. This team appears to be coachable. Credit goes to the players, specifically Smith and Blair, for admitting they were a little embarrassed by the film of the UNCA game and doing something to rectify it.

Results are results and the RPI is what it is ... it's a hard number and a measuring stick. But there's a lot of season left to be played, so it's not an end-all number yet.

Very interesting coming from our scribe

[Chris Lang]

HMO ... this isn't unique to Liberty fans, but we're in such a reactionary culture in sports right now. One bad game and message boards light up with the ol' FIRE THE COACH!!!! thread. People (not talking about you specifically) just have to show some patience in college basketball season. The Asheville game was bad, but it wasn't a season ruiner. Let the season play out, you know.

[SuperJon]

I think the 8 losses in a row got to some of us. It wasn't just the 8 losses, but the way we lost some of them. Last night was the team I saw before Christmas break. I don't know what happened to them the past month, but that was the same group of players I saw when we were winning 6 in a row.

[PAmedic]

I'm still worried about VMI, believe it or not.

you gotta "D" up on that

[Chris Lang]

Well, that's understandable, SJ. And the coaches know it's part of the game. You lose eight in a row, people are going to start moaning. Such is life in Division I athletics. I can appreciate the fact that Liberty's fans (and athletic administrators) want badly for LU to be, at worst, a high-level mid-major program across, and that you don't want to accept being ranked in the 300s of the RPI in hoops or the bottom of the GPI in football. It'll take time though.

[SuperJon]

I'm still worried about VMI, believe it or not.

you gotta "D" up on that

VMI always plays us tough, especially in Lexington. While they're not the best team in the world, their style of play keeps them in the game. We've got to have our shots falling in the game or we'll lose. Luckily we run 9 deep though. The game I saw VMI they looked bad, but they're staying in games that I didn't expect them to which is impressive.


Uh huh, I can compliment VMI too. It's not always bad. (Scar and a few others will get that joke)

[Hold My Own]

HMO ... this isn't unique to Liberty fans, but we're in such a reactionary culture in sports right now. One bad game and message boards light up with the ol' FIRE THE COACH!!!! thread. People (not talking about you specifically) just have to show some patience in college basketball season. The Asheville game was bad, but it wasn't a season ruiner. Let the season play out, you know.

Glad to hear that, b/c I was taking it a little different from a few of your other posts...almost sounded like an agenda! Good to hear that's not the case. I guess Liberty fans have me paranoid about agendas...they seem to exist

[Chris Lang]

Man, we're just as bad in the press. Call it the Around the Horn mentality. Any time a team is struggling, action must be swift and decisive. AND LOUD! The Giants have lost six of eight to end the year, you HAVE TO FIRE COUGHLIN!! (They didn't.) Tony Romo threw five TDs against the horrible Bucs on Thanksgiving? HE IS THE NEXT ROGER STAUBACH!! (He's not.) We just throw these grand proclimations around without actually thinking about it.

So, yes, I'll admit to thinking Saturday that not a whole lot had changed with the LU basketball program, based just on the empirical evidence in front of me (the bad game at UNCA). But I thought about it before I wrote, then realized that, yeah, there are 15 conference games left, so the season is not over, and wrote the story accordingly. I'm only human, I guess.

[Hold My Own]

it's just nice to have someone neutral in your position, I was afraid you were shifting gears on me!

[Brokeback Flamer]

Someone should put a disclaimer on this thread. I thought it was about PACKING a CASE for RD and getting volunteers to help!!! I am sure I will be chastigated (Not that THAT would be new) but I don't see much difference between this team and last years team in regards to results. Probably because I am lopping off the three chip shot games as meaningless. The RPI is the back in Hankinsonian Zone, the team appears to have SERIOUS chemistry problems (we play better when our "Star " player is OUT?) and we already hear the Mantra "Wait till you get a load of the recruits NEXT year". We are about half way through the season, and I agree that he deserves a WHOLE season to make his case. That does NOT mean we can not grade the first half of the season. So if I were to grade the FIRST half of the season, I am looking at a "D". We did win a game against the Pirates I thought we would have lost, the St Francis game wasn't much of a suprise nor the Longwood game. O'fer for BYU was horrible, UNCA was horrible. Let's see how the second half of the season goes

[SuperJon]

Playing better without the star is called The Ewing Theory. Bill Simmons made it up a few years back.