[FlamesHighontheTide]

Losing to JAX St. does NOT put Gill on the hot seat.

[thepostman]

Being embarrassed most of the season does though.

[prototype]

yes. I don't see us beating CSU right now. No playoffs, coaching change. Too much invested to not be dominating BS.

[Jonathan Carone]

I truly believe we need a change. Our program is not where it needs to be and I don't believe the majority of this staff could get us to that place. There's no way we rise above occasionally winning the Big South with the leadership where it's at now.

Tonight Gill said "we've played some good competition so far this year. We'll be able to match up better with the people we play the rest of the season." That's a horrible quote. Our talent level should be where we're not getting embarrassed by JSU. The Big South should not be our measuring stick.

I've said it all season, but the issue in making a coaching change is that with as bad as we've been, we can still stumble into a Big South title and playoff birth. There's no way we could make a move after making the playoffs.

[thepostman]

I'd make the move. But Jeff Barber wouldn't.

[Jonathan Carone]

Even if he wanted to, I don't think he could. I don't know that the University would give him the buyout money.

[thepostman]

Good point.

[jinxy]

Ive been slowly turning the page on gill and tonight finished it. Everybody in football can score but us. He cant seem to figure out special teams or how to run an offense in modern college football. Guy is so overpaid its ridiculous.

[Schfourteenteen]

#HireJayMills

[Jonathan Carone]

This link was sent to me yesterday. It's back to the threads when Gill was hired and is a post by a Kansas fan. Here are some quotes from it:

Gill is not organized, at all. He struggled with the mundane to the significant tasks in running a program. He struggles with just organizing a practice.

Turner Gill's actual hands on fundamental and X and 0 coaching is severely, severely limited. He must rely on his staff to do it all. ... This lack of general football knowledge is critical because when there is a problem, he has no way to even identify what the problem is, let alone fix it.

Gill is a horrible public speaker, like the worst. He will install no public confidence in his message because he is not capable of articulating a message or plan. He might fool you the first time you hear him, but if you really listen he is beyond horrible. He will throw out random meaningless phrases like 'from that standpoint' and 'per se' at will, and you better get ready for the word 'there' because he says it every third word, said it around 80 times per television show.

No clue on time out or clock mangement. regularly burn at dumb times for not having enough guys on field.

Losses did not cost the job. He was only expected to win between 2 to 5 games. It was how they lost, often giving up by the 2nd or 3 rd quarter and setting records in futility that did it. And not one sign of improvement, it was actually getting worse.

The only way Gill could possibly work is if he has a great staff that does all coaching and organization for him and if he is just a figurehead, the guy who closes on recruits and kisses babies.

Another KU fan with less animosity had this to say:

More of an annoyance than a fatal flaw, but he says very little in press conferences. I think every post game presser this season could have been interchanged with the rest of them. It was always "We just need to execute better and continue to improve from that standpoint," never saying how we were going to improve, what went wrong, or what we were going to change.

I think he is a good man, and cares about his players as much as any coach out there, but players need a coach more than they need a friend if they are going to be successful. I am sorry it didn't work out at KU because I think that off the field, he is a great person to represent an athletic department.

[thepostman]

Sounds oddly familiar. I remember thinking those guys had no idea what they were talking about.

Boy was I wrong.

[FlamesHighontheTide]

I think its interesting how we talk of Gill's inability to be a good college football or even be organized enough to run a program. He was obviously good enough, organized enough and sought after enough to lead Buffalo for 4 years, Kansas for 2 years(and at Kansas he was set up for failure!) Only 2 seasons at a place and yes you only one 5 games but he never had a team full of his own players or recruits. Aka not enough time! Outside of these jobs as well as keeping LU a winning FCS football program and guiding them to their FIRST-EVER playoff appearance and win; Gill was interviewed by Nebraska, Syracuse, Auburn just to name a few where he was beat out by Bo Pelini, Gus Malzan and Doug Marone. All 3 are high quality coaches.

I know this season has not started offensively the way any of us would have wanted, but I see serious improvements in the Special Teams, improvements as a whole on the defensive side of the ball with tackling, knowing your assignments, football iq, aggressiveness and team speed. Even though the offense has been abysmal at times, he has recruited the talent to be successful at this level. Yes, I am in 100% agreement that Gill needs to go ahead and put the mark on whoever he wants to start the rest of the season. Also, I was DEAD wrong about Masha being a possible carbon copy of Mike Brown, but none of us saw this kind of poor performance coming from Masha. Let's not pull an LSPOO and fire a coach 4 games into the season. Unless there are integrity issues/other issues that are sinful and hurting the reputation of the name of Christ then take the high road that is the most Biblical and Christ-honoring and let the plan finish out the season. Then and only then call for his head, but until then show some faith in the guy.

[Jonathan Carone]

No one is saying we fire the guy over the bye week. With that said, after five years it's totally acceptable to question if we're going in the right direction.

As for your other questions about Buffalo and job interviews, it's amazing but the dude from Kansas answered them five years ago:

In Gill's entire career, he lucked into ONE decent season in which he finished tied FOURTH in the MAC, but because UB was in the by far weaker division (and because of a hail mary win), they got a chance to play in the MAC title game wherein they pulled a huge upset because the opposing team turned the ball over something like 7 times. That UB team had a NFL QB and RB (I don't think he recruited them) and that was the secret to success, not TG. They went back to normal the next year. Then the new coach came in and found the program in a mess, he didn't leave much behind.

Nebraska knows the guy better than ANYBODY. They love the guy there as he is a Forrest Gump type legend, but there were always rumors that he was not smart/competent enough to be a real coach (he was QB coach there), thus he was never a coordinator. Gill finally saw that they weren't taking him seriously so he took a desperation job at UB.

Now, remember NU knows the guy better than anyone. NEB job comes available. Two finalist are Turner Gill who just won the MAC championship as head coach and Bo Pellini who has never been a head coach. They don't hire Gill and go with the guy with NO HC experience. That says a lot in my book right there.

[FlamesHighontheTide]

I appreciate the quotes from this dude from Kansas who heard rumors that he was not smart enough/competent enough to be a real coach. Nevertheless, my whole purpose in responding in this thread is to cut the guy some slack. We are in the middle of the season and things can change and turn-around quickly. Yes, this is his fifth year at the helm of a program we all want to see move up to FBS and to win national championships too. However, Yes he has continued to give us winning seasons in football as well as a playoff "run" two years ago. A football season in played in 4 seasons, the first 3, second 3, third 3, etc. Our first 3 were 1-2, right now we are 0-1 in the next chapter of the season. When the season is over and y'all feel the same way about Turner Gill as a coach due to us not having a winning season or making the playoffs. Then I will shut my mouth about giving the man some grace.

And for the record when he interviewed at Auburn and was not chosen over Chizik, Chizik was 5-19 at Iowa State and then won a national championship with a freak at qb in cam. Still the reason they chose Chizik over Gill was not that Gill was seen as not smart enough or even incompetent but that they wanted Chizik's offensive scheme which included Gus Malzan. The university of Auburn would not have Turner Gill as their second choice if he was in the slightest sense incompetent or disorganized when it comes to the nuts and bolts of football and running a program. I know this not as rumor!

[Jonathan Carone]

Why are fans not allowed to talk about the future of the program until the end of the season? We're not administrators. We're not coaches. We're not players. We're fans. What we say should have little to no impact on the team.

[FlamesHighontheTide]

Jonathan,

I am not saying we can't talk about the future of the program, but what good does it do for the fan base or for us in general if we almost make our judgement on Gill and this team 4 games into the season. On a more important note: appreciate your dialogue on this topic as well as how often you post! Keep up the good work.

[LUnpretty11]

Why are fans not allowed to talk about the future of the program until the end of the season? We're not administrators. We're not coaches. We're not players. We're fans. What we say should have little to no impact on the team.

This.

I was one of the first to be skeptical of previous Kansas fans brash comments on Gill. He and our most recent ex basketball coach are starting to have a lot in common. I would love nothing more than for HCTG to prove that last sentence wrong.

Also, FHOTT, this is not a 4 game discussion. This has 4 years of lead up time to have this discussion. 2014 has proven to be an anomaly and that is what is scary about HCTG. I'm not saying he's not fit to be our coach anymore, but the question is a legitimate one and we can't afford to have a Layer situation.

[Jonathan Carone]

Jonathan,

I am not saying we can't talk about the future of the program, but what good does it do for the fan base or for us in general if we almost make our judgement on Gill and this team 4 games into the season. On a more important note: appreciate your dialogue on this topic as well as how often you post! Keep up the good work.

Because we're fans! It's what we do.

[Purple Haize]

Jonathan,

I am not saying we can't talk about the future of the program, but what good does it do for the fan base or for us in general if we almost make our judgement on Gill and this team 4 games into the season. On a more important note: appreciate your dialogue on this topic as well as how often you post! Keep up the good work.

Because we're fans! It's what we do.

Ain't that the truth! Ha

I won't go into all the points above but I have heard Gill speak at functions and thought he was fine
I don't care if he isn't a great X and O guy if he brings in guys who are (I think he has on Defense not so much on Special Teams)
I can't speak to O and A skills. What is chaos to one isn't to another.
There is no one right way to coach. There are certainly baseline things you cannot do like embarrassing the University but again what worked for Tom Landry didn't work for Jimmy Johnson.
Sometimes you can be too close and lose the forest for the trees

[thepostman]

I'm making my judgement on the entire body of work. The first 4 games just magnified the concerns I already had.

[ballcoach15]

For whatever the reason, Liberty is snake bit when it comes to losing games we should win. It happened with Rocco and it has happened with Gill. Seems like every year we lose a game, that "kills" our season, when we should have probably won easily.

[Purple Haize]

For whatever the reason, Liberty is snake bit when it comes to losing games we should win. It happened with Rocco and it has happened with Gill. Seems like every year we lose a game, that "kills" our season, when we should have probably won easily.

I think Gill has won more big games than Rocco did. Not saying it makes one a better or worse coach but you gotta give the man his due

[Jonathan Carone]

No one can argue that Gill hasn't won some big games since being here. In fact, he's won some of the biggest games in program history.

[Purple Haize]

No one can argue that Gill hasn't won some big games since being here. In fact, he's won some of the biggest games in program history.

Yet people continue to or at least diminish them

[Jonathan Carone]

Rightly or wrongly, last year vs Coastal and 2013 vs CSU get diminished to some because they came after the season was lost.