[Purple Haize]

I just can't see the tax payers of South Carolina wanting to spend more money on CCU than necessary. Not when Clemson needs just a little more, I'm sure they are thinking, to win a title and USC needs some more to get back on track Also is there really a lot of love between Coach and Institution in Conway? I never really got the feeling there was anything more than a whorish relationship between the two. Each using the other for their own ends and own gratification in a fun way but nothing that would endear a larger financial commitment from either party.
I think their desire to screw LU is going to be their downfall. They got what they know LU wanted. But they are in no way prepared to live with the consequences

[olldflame]

For the record, the proposal that was just rejected was already reduced 9 million from their original request and the school had agreed to kick in 5 million more from a fund reserved for renovations. It's ironic that the poor beach chickens are the test case for a revamped system of approving funds in SC education brought on by financial necessity. In the past this process was pretty much a "rubber stamp".

[flameshaw]

I have seen more than a few CCU fans that want LU to join them in the SBC. I am not sold that their reason for moving was to screw LU. I suspect it was more of not seeing a good future on the horizon for the BSC. That should be a significant concern for us as well. A marriage between LU and the SBC might not be ideal, but staying in the BSC is much more risky in my mind. We are just barely holding on to our auto bid, with a couple of schools that would bolt if they had a chance at a better conference affiliation, a la Stonybrook.

[flameshaw]

I don't believe they would have made the move if they didn't know Liberty wanted the spot.

If that is the case, they are dumber than any of us would consider. Make a move that is not going to be a good one, just to spite a rival school? Sorry, I can't get my head around that, but stranger things have happened...................... I guess.

[alabama24]

And clear evidence that the Sun Belt is a 2 Bit possr league LU should steer clear of

Bottom of the barrel FBS > Bottom of the barrel FCS.

[Purple Haize]

And clear evidence that the Sun Belt is a 2 Bit possr league LU should steer clear of

Bottom of the barrel FBS > Bottom of the barrel FCS.

Debatable LU is an outlier. If we lived up to our potential in FCS it wouldn't matter what league we were in.

[LUGrad2000]

New Mexico St chooses FBS independent.
Idaho chooses FCS Big Sky.

[Purple Haize]

New Mexico St chooses FBS independent.
Idaho chooses FCS Big Sky.

Good move for both. Someone should pick up NMSU I would think. Especially if/when the Big XII does their thing

[alabama24]

Debatable LU is an outlier.

PURE SLANDER!

If we lived up to our potential in FCS it wouldn't matter what league we were in.

We are talking about conferences. The bottom feeder of FBS (sunbelt) is greater than the bottom feeder of FCS (big south). I know there are many who believe success at the FCS level would be better than mediocrity at the FBS level. That is a different argument.

[Purple Haize]

Debatable LU is an outlier.

PURE SLANDER! :I chortle audibly.:

If we lived up to our potential in FCS it wouldn't matter what league we were in.

We are talking about conferences. The bottom feeder of FBS (sunbelt) is greater than the bottom feeder of FCS (big south). I know there are many who believe success at the FCS level would be better than mediocrity at the FBS level. That is a different argument.

Ok

[rmiller1959]

Things are getting pretty entertaining over there in the Big 12:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-footba ... expansion/

[rmiller1959]

More expansion speculation:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal ... -everybody

There seems to be an "act or die" mentality motivating this latest round of expansion talk. Is the Big 12 really on the verge of irrelevance if they don't expand? Would some members leave out of frustration if they kicked the can down the road yet again?

[olldflame]

I don't believe they would have made the move if they didn't know Liberty wanted the spot.

If that is the case, they are dumber than any of us would consider. Make a move that is not going to be a good one, just to spite a rival school? Sorry, I can't get my head around that, but stranger things have happened...................... I guess.

Actually, I think their rivalry with us is the one thing Coastal likes about Liberty and the reason they would likely be our biggest supporters if we came under consideration again with the SBC. You need rivals, and the fact is, starting hext year they have none.

[VAGolf]

More expansion speculation:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal ... -everybody

There seems to be an "act or die" mentality motivating this latest round of expansion talk. Is the Big 12 really on the verge of irrelevance if they don't expand? Would some members leave out of frustration if they kicked the can down the road yet again?

The Big12 is much closer to irrelevance than people realize. It's purely a football conference yet, Texas football hasn't been relevant for seven years. Besides Oklahoma, TCU and Baylor have been the only teams to even maintain some sort of relevancy. The combined enrollment of both TCU and Baylor is only 1,000 more than the next highest in the conference, Kansas State. It's also the only power 5 conference without a program located in a large market. Those facts don't exactly help a conference that's only had one team make the championship in the past 12 years.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see Oklahoma and Oklahoma State start flirting with the Pac12. The Pac12's current problem is not getting any attention during August, September and early October. Because of the summer heat, the conference is forced to play most of their games during the evening and many games don't start until 10:00PM EST. If they add the two schools from Oklahoma, you can have games kick off in the 4 to 6PM time frame. That's real estate the Pac12 has wanted for a few years. I doubt either program would actually leave the Big12 but there are ALOT of people inside OU that are very upset with the conference and with Texas.

[Humble_Opinion]

The combined enrollment of both TCU and Baylor is only 1,000 more than the next highest in the conference, Kansas State. It's also the only power 5 conference without a program located in a large market. Those facts don't exactly help a conference that's only had one team make the championship in the past 12 years.

I agree with some of your assessments, but the two statements above are not relevant, or are inaccurate in my opinion. First, yes, enrollment at TCU and Baylor aren't the biggest. Most private schools that participate in FBS football though don't have large enrollments, except for a few (BYU and USC). Notre Dame has an enrollment of ~12,500. LU's own on-campus enrollment is slightly smaller than Baylor's. The key to Baylor and TCU's relevance (outside the recent on-field successes you highlighted) is they are both considered to be academically inclined, and thus are looked upon by their public peers as being worthy members.

Second, a lot of the schools in the Big XII are in college towns that cater to small/mid-sized markets. However, TCU is in Ft. Worth, which is shown as the 16th largest city in the US by population. Austin, with a population of 2 million is shown as the 11th largest city in the US. Pretty sure those two are considered to be large markets, especially when you expand the definition to the overall MSA ratings, which is what networks are keen on.

[ballcoach15]

Just get us in some FBS conference. recruiting will improve and schedules will improve once we start playing with the "big boys". The BSC is so weak, it's holding us back in every sport. The only 2 decent schools in BSC are LU and CCU. Everyone else is a lightweight.

[VAGolf]

The combined enrollment of both TCU and Baylor is only 1,000 more than the next highest in the conference, Kansas State. It's also the only power 5 conference without a program located in a large market. Those facts don't exactly help a conference that's only had one team make the championship in the past 12 years.

I agree with some of your assessments, but the two statements above are not relevant, or are inaccurate in my opinion. First, yes, enrollment at TCU and Baylor aren't the biggest. Most private schools that participate in FBS football though don't have large enrollments, except for a few (BYU and USC). Notre Dame has an enrollment of ~12,500. LU's own on-campus enrollment is slightly smaller than Baylor's. The key to Baylor and TCU's relevance (outside the recent on-field successes you highlighted) is they are both considered to be academically inclined, and thus are looked upon by their public peers as being worthy members.

Second, a lot of the schools in the Big XII are in college towns that cater to small/mid-sized markets. However, TCU is in Ft. Worth, which is shown as the 16th largest city in the US by population. Austin, with a population of 2 million is shown as the 11th largest city in the US. Pretty sure those two are considered to be large markets, especially when you expand the definition to the overall MSA ratings, which is what networks are keen on.

I'm pretty sure something can't be "inaccurate in your opinion." Either it is inaccurate or it isn't. Kansas State has an enrollment of 25,000. Baylor and TCU combine for right around 26,000. You are correct that it isn't the biggest factor and yes, both programs bring an academic upside. However, my point is that neither of those programs are big enough to hold a conference together long term. The ACC likes Duke and Wake Forest competing but you don't want either school to dominate the league for a decade.

As for the cities, I'll give you Austin but TCU isn't very well represented in Fort Worth. At least, not enough to represent that city. In fact, you could argue that Texas A&M shares as much, maybe more, of the Fort Worth market than TCU does.

My point wasn't that the size of the markets are the reason why the Big12 is on the verge of irrelevancy. My point was that there are several factors contributing and if ALL of them continue to contribute, they're going to be in trouble. The future of the conference is not held in the same regard as the Pac12, Big10 or even ACC. If OU and Oklahoma State were to leave, the Big12 would be crippled.

It's also been leaked that TCU's decision is being influenced by their obligation to Texas. That kind of stuff doesn't just get leaked out randomly, someone inside of TCU is leaking the info. Information only gets leaked when someone wants it leaked. Why would TCU want everyone to know that they're only supporting Texas' vote because of obligation?

[ballcoach15]

I wish Texas would leave Big 12.

[Humble_Opinion]

They can be inaccurate based on opinion... it all depends on context. Your statement regarding the BIG 12 not having a program in a "large market" can carry multiple different interpretations. You provided no context to define "large market". So I assumed how you defined it and came to the conclusion that it was inaccurate, while qualifying that it was an "opinion".

I write all that to say, that most of what you wrote I agree with. There is no doubt that the BIG 12 traditional powers (OU, UT and OSU to some extent) have been over-shadowed by Baylor and TCU in the most important sport (football) in recent times. I don't know whether that is relevant though to the overall standing of the conference though were it to continue. Baylor and TCU weren't left out of the playoffs because they were private, but rather because they played one less game overall due to not meeting the minimum requirements to hold a CCG. Had the BIG 12 been able to hold a CCG and have a true champion, their chances of being in the playoffs would have gone up significantly. The longer the BIG 12 waits to expand, the more degradation they will undergo in terms of their football prowess.

Finally, I get what you're saying about actual market-share in a locale. Larger private institutions will always have a much lower share on average in larger market places though, regardless of their size. The reason being, a much larger portion of their student body comes from outside of the state in which the school resides, as compared to their public counterparts.

[rmiller1959]

The schmoozing is getting hot and heavy...

http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... -expansion

[VAGolf]

They can be inaccurate based on opinion... it all depends on context. Your statement regarding the BIG 12 not having a program in a "large market" can carry multiple different interpretations. You provided no context to define "large market". So I assumed how you defined it and came to the conclusion that it was inaccurate, while qualifying that it was an "opinion".

I write all that to say, that most of what you wrote I agree with. There is no doubt that the BIG 12 traditional powers (OU, UT and OSU to some extent) have been over-shadowed by Baylor and TCU in the most important sport (football) in recent times. I don't know whether that is relevant though to the overall standing of the conference though were it to continue. Baylor and TCU weren't left out of the playoffs because they were private, but rather because they played one less game overall due to not meeting the minimum requirements to hold a CCG. Had the BIG 12 been able to hold a CCG and have a true champion, their chances of being in the playoffs would have gone up significantly. The longer the BIG 12 waits to expand, the more degradation they will undergo in terms of their football prowess.

Finally, I get what you're saying about actual market-share in a locale. Larger private institutions will always have a much lower share on average in larger market places though, regardless of their size. The reason being, a much larger portion of their student body comes from outside of the state in which the school resides, as compared to their public counterparts.

I agree as to why the Big12 was left out of playoffs but I think expansion is more than getting to that magical number 12 and/or hosting a CC. The conference has bigger issues than just playoffs. The Big12 didn't have a team in any of the top ten most watched games last season. Just recently, FS1 started broadcasting college football. Since they are seen as the newcomer, they are mostly given games that the other networks don't want. Last season, the Big12 had 21 games on FS1 while the second most (Pac12) had just 10. And I'm only touching the surface...if you want more, I'll post some links.

The bottom line is that the conference has been unwatchable for about five years. Now, I don't think that Memphis, Cincinnati, or USF/UCF will make the Big12 better over night. However, I think you have to do something to get to 12 members, tap into different TV markets and limit Texas' stranglehold on the rest of the members. All of the schools mentioned above are in ACC/Big10/SEC markets. If Ohio State has a home game, what's not to love about sending Texas or OU to Cincinnati on the same week? The Texas admin can complain about there not being any "quality" schools available but the issue is that the Big12 isn't watchable as is. You have to fix it; there are plenty of fine options out there.

[TH Spangler]

http://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2016/5/10 ... is-houston

[SumItUp]

I agree as to why the Big12 was left out of playoffs

Big12 was a part of the playoffs this year. Pac12 was not.

[Sly Fox]

A rare SumItUp appearance! I hope the disappointment of the Astros has not been overwhelming. My son feels tortured after the Rockets downfall and now the Astros mess.

Everyone involved in this expansion process understands the FOIA concerns. Anything discoverable by requests is intentionally so. Boren ... Gee ... Starr ... could you pick three university presidents who are enjoyoing the attention of the process more than these guys?

All of the hating on the Big XII by ACC fans is cute. The large market cracks were laughable.

[thepostman]

Who said anything about the ACC? I hate how that is your go to move Sly when someone criticizes anything related to Texas. It is such a weak counterpoint.