[flameshaw]

I believe it is very smart to upgrade the facilities while we are flush with cash. It is financially the responsible thing to do. One never knows how long the cash cow, online program will continue to be so well attended.
While our facilities will never equal dominance in any particular conference, it should even the playing field a bit, when it comes to recruiting. We do have a bit of a disadvantage because of our mission, but it can/should be an advantage when recruiting excellent Christian athletes. So far, we don't seem to have taken full advantage of that opportunity.
The upgrades will also prepare us for a move to a FBS conference, which will eventually happen.
I agree, we should win football, basketball, baseball, women's basketball, softball, track, every year. I am somewhat disappointed that we have not done so. The BSC is pretty weak and losing to most of these teams should never happen. On the positive side, we need to remember as a University, we are still very young. Especially when you consider the first 20+ years, we were just fighting to survive. I believe the administration is dedicated to the sports program and realizes that the future growth of the university and be greatly advanced by success in the program. Hopefully, it will happen soon. I do think some of the natives are getting more restless as time goes on. It can't come too fast for me, but I don't see a major overhaul in personnel as a prerequisite.

I understand the argument about pursuing elite, Christian athletes (a la Tebow/Curry/etc.). I also agree in principle, that the relative age of our university has an impact. There are enormous pockets of people that still don't really know who LU is, outside of the Falwell name. And I agree that athletic success can be an aid to us here. However, if we stopped building athletic buildings today, I would wager that our currently occupied facilities are easily among the best in all of Div I-AA (FCS). They are also among the newest and most modern. We already have a huge advantage and have had it for nearly 4 years solid. If facilities correlate in any way with the relative success of an athletic program, then how is it that CSU has become the 'team-to-beat' in the past few years? Have you looked at their facilities? Have you seen the size of their school? They have far more disadvantages than LU does, and yet, their program (at least in football) has shot ahead of ours for the moment.

I'm just saying... were it me in JLFJR's shoes, I'd be putting the brakes on any new additional buildings for athletics until they can prove to me that the buildings and funding they already have is making an impact on their success.

In that case I am very happy you are not in JLFJR's shoes. LU didn't get where we are today, with less than bold leadership. If the coaches don't perform, they can always be replaced, new facilities are/will be needed in the future and it makes financial sense to do it now.

[BJWilliams]

If H_O were in his shoes we probably wouldnt have even built the baseball stadium, softball stadium, football operations center, indoor track, LIC, improved the soccer stadium/track. added swimming, field hockey and lacrosse, our club sports would probably never have even gotten of the ground...I could go on really

[Humble_Opinion]

I think you either missed or chose to ignore one of flameshaw's major points, and the reason we continúe to build. At some point in time the LUO cash cow will dry up, or at least s!ow down. Combine that with the fact that in this economic climate construction is a relative bargain, and I agree with JLFJR that we should build not just for present needs, but predictible future ones.

Believe me, I didn't ignore it. I suppose I'm just surprised that no one can connect the dots about what my point is here. Let me try it this way... If the LUO cash cow is going to dry up (I agree at some point it will), that's more reason to SAVE/INVEST the money into our quasi-endowment, or elements of the university that can at least come close to covering their own costs, and NOT huge sunk costs that carry additional operating expenses that have to be SUBSIDIZED by other sources of cash.

[Humble_Opinion]

I believe it is very smart to upgrade the facilities while we are flush with cash. It is financially the responsible thing to do. One never knows how long the cash cow, online program will continue to be so well attended.
While our facilities will never equal dominance in any particular conference, it should even the playing field a bit, when it comes to recruiting. We do have a bit of a disadvantage because of our mission, but it can/should be an advantage when recruiting excellent Christian athletes. So far, we don't seem to have taken full advantage of that opportunity.
The upgrades will also prepare us for a move to a FBS conference, which will eventually happen.
I agree, we should win football, basketball, baseball, women's basketball, softball, track, every year. I am somewhat disappointed that we have not done so. The BSC is pretty weak and losing to most of these teams should never happen. On the positive side, we need to remember as a University, we are still very young. Especially when you consider the first 20+ years, we were just fighting to survive. I believe the administration is dedicated to the sports program and realizes that the future growth of the university and be greatly advanced by success in the program. Hopefully, it will happen soon. I do think some of the natives are getting more restless as time goes on. It can't come too fast for me, but I don't see a major overhaul in personnel as a prerequisite.

I understand the argument about pursuing elite, Christian athletes (a la Tebow/Curry/etc.). I also agree in principle, that the relative age of our university has an impact. There are enormous pockets of people that still don't really know who LU is, outside of the Falwell name. And I agree that athletic success can be an aid to us here. However, if we stopped building athletic buildings today, I would wager that our currently occupied facilities are easily among the best in all of Div I-AA (FCS). They are also among the newest and most modern. We already have a huge advantage and have had it for nearly 4 years solid. If facilities correlate in any way with the relative success of an athletic program, then how is it that CSU has become the 'team-to-beat' in the past few years? Have you looked at their facilities? Have you seen the size of their school? They have far more disadvantages than LU does, and yet, their program (at least in football) has shot ahead of ours for the moment.

I'm just saying... were it me in JLFJR's shoes, I'd be putting the brakes on any new additional buildings for athletics until they can prove to me that the buildings and funding they already have is making an impact on their success.

In that case I am very happy you are not in JLFJR's shoes. LU didn't get where we are today, with less than bold leadership. If the coaches don't perform, they can always be replaced, new facilities are/will be needed in the future and it makes financial sense to do it now.

So you basically just shouted my points down instead of actually addressing them in a substantive manner. No point in continuing to speak to you on this matter...

[Humble_Opinion]

If H_O were in his shoes we probably wouldnt have even built the baseball stadium, softball stadium, football operations center, indoor track, LIC, improved the soccer stadium/track. added swimming, field hockey and lacrosse, our club sports would probably never have even gotten of the ground...I could go on really

Stuff like this just shows how little you know. One thing we do know is that yes BJ, you will continue to go on... Really.

[BJWilliams]

Im not going to but if you have the attitude that we only expand our facilities and increase our offerings when we win championships, then nothing would get done...or at least would be on a much slower progress curve than the one that JLFJR and JB have been on.

[thepostman]

I don't necessarily agree with the idea that we must win championships before we build as long as due diligence is done and we don't stretch ourselves too thin. With that said if we spend millions championships and deep playoff runs better become the norm.

[flameshaw]

I believe it is very smart to upgrade the facilities while we are flush with cash. It is financially the responsible thing to do. One never knows how long the cash cow, online program will continue to be so well attended.
While our facilities will never equal dominance in any particular conference, it should even the playing field a bit, when it comes to recruiting. We do have a bit of a disadvantage because of our mission, but it can/should be an advantage when recruiting excellent Christian athletes. So far, we don't seem to have taken full advantage of that opportunity.
The upgrades will also prepare us for a move to a FBS conference, which will eventually happen.
I agree, we should win football, basketball, baseball, women's basketball, softball, track, every year. I am somewhat disappointed that we have not done so. The BSC is pretty weak and losing to most of these teams should never happen. On the positive side, we need to remember as a University, we are still very young. Especially when you consider the first 20+ years, we were just fighting to survive. I believe the administration is dedicated to the sports program and realizes that the future growth of the university and be greatly advanced by success in the program. Hopefully, it will happen soon. I do think some of the natives are getting more restless as time goes on. It can't come too fast for me, but I don't see a major overhaul in personnel as a prerequisite.

I understand the argument about pursuing elite, Christian athletes (a la Tebow/Curry/etc.). I also agree in principle, that the relative age of our university has an impact. There are enormous pockets of people that still don't really know who LU is, outside of the Falwell name. And I agree that athletic success can be an aid to us here. However, if we stopped building athletic buildings today, I would wager that our currently occupied facilities are easily among the best in all of Div I-AA (FCS). They are also among the newest and most modern. We already have a huge advantage and have had it for nearly 4 years solid. If facilities correlate in any way with the relative success of an athletic program, then how is it that CSU has become the 'team-to-beat' in the past few years? Have you looked at their facilities? Have you seen the size of their school? They have far more disadvantages than LU does, and yet, their program (at least in football) has shot ahead of ours for the moment.

I'm just saying... were it me in JLFJR's shoes, I'd be putting the brakes on any new additional buildings for athletics until they can prove to me that the buildings and funding they already have is making an impact on their success.

In that case I am very happy you are not in JLFJR's shoes. LU didn't get where we are today, with less than bold leadership. If the coaches don't perform, they can always be replaced, new facilities are/will be needed in the future and it makes financial sense to do it now.

So you basically just shouted my points down instead of actually addressing them in a substantive manner. No point in continuing to speak to you on this matter...[/quote]

Not really, I just don't agree that building later, is the best use of our financial resources. In addition, it is prudent to build in conjunction with trying to move up to FBS, which will raise our profile as a university.

[forbidden]

We should win the Big South Championship in football every single year. It has been stated by those in leadership that is what our goal is and it should be. I don't get why we should expect anything less especially when so much money is being thrown at football.

Really, and don't you think that every other coach in the BSC is saying the same thing that, they should win it too, so LU should win the BSC because leadership said so, the Patriots have possibly best QB in league can't win SB, Cavs have possibly best player in 'Bron cant win the title, so your saying absolutely nothing credible here.

[olldflame]

There are so many factors which go into winning that it is simplistic IMHO to say that having an advantage in resources and facilities should automatically translate into championships. As has been stated, LU also has some significant disadvantages in recruiting, and there are entire groups of athletes who will not consider us or we will not recruit. Our coaches need to continúe to focus on those who are a fit and develop a reputation as a viable altertative for athletes who like our mission, but in the past would have not considered anything but major college programs.

[ballcoach15]

We need to recruit better in all sports. Hopefully our facilities will help do that. We can recruit better without lowering our standards.

[Humble_Opinion]

Im not going to but if you have the attitude that we only expand our facilities and increase our offerings when we win championships, then nothing would get done...or at least would be on a much slower progress curve than the one that JLFJR and JB have been on.

No one here has said we only need to build after we win championships. Where do you get this stuff from? My point is we have built a lot of buildings to date. We are already well ahead of our peers in FCS in terms of our commitment to our program via facilities. Why are we having such a hard time winning championships? By the way I'm not even talking about the NCAA championship yet... We can't even win the Big South title outright. Recruiting is only one part of building successful programs. At this point, we have more than enough to attract the talent we need. If we are still not where we want to be, at what point does somebody pump the brakes and ask whether there might be another culprit?

[Humble_Opinion]

We should win the Big South Championship in football every single year. It has been stated by those in leadership that is what our goal is and it should be. I don't get why we should expect anything less especially when so much money is being thrown at football.

Really, and don't you think that every other coach in the BSC is saying the same thing that, they should win it too, so LU should win the BSC because leadership said so, the Patriots have possibly best QB in league can't win SB, Cavs have possibly best player in 'Bron cant win the title, so your saying absolutely nothing credible here.

You're misunderstanding your own analogy here. Sure, the Pats and Cavs don't win the SB or Finals EVERY year, but they do pretty much dominate their division/conferences and at least earn the right to compete for the ultimate prizes.

[Humble_Opinion]

There are so many factors which go into winning that it is simplistic IMHO to say that having an advantage in resources and facilities should automatically translate into championships. As has been stated, LU also has some significant disadvantages in recruiting, and there are entire groups of athletes who will not consider us or we will not recruit. Our coaches need to continúe to focus on those who are a fit and develop a reputation as a viable altertative for athletes who like our mission, but in the past would have not considered anything but major college programs.

In terms of where we play and who we compete with, there are very few programs in FCS that can offer what we have. Is there a group of kids that might not consider us because we are Christian? Maybe. That hasn't hurt Dabo though... If you ask him, it's enhanced his ability to recruit at his level. I don't buy into this "we are at a disadvantage stuff because of our rules and religion..." Every high-quality football program has a coach/leader at the head that maintains a strict set of team-rules and discipline. Most parents that care search out for those types of situations.

Also, again, no one is saying Facilities = Championships. But they are a huge part of the recruiting game, which has a large impact on outcomes. When do we start to spend time on ensuring the other phases of our program are where they need to be to win?

Finally, should we shoot for the moon and go after 3, 4 and 5 star recruits? Sure... But we could have palaces made of gold and they aren't going to come... Yet. More than anything they want to win and they want to do it at the highest level they can latch on to. For most, the BSC is a little below that. Nothing elevates a program more than winning. That's what we need.

[olldflame]

Dabo Swinney is indeed a devout and outspoken Christian, but he is recruiting players to come to Clemson, not Liberty. Big difference.

We could argue all day about the chicken/egg relationship between recruiting and winning. The bottom líne is our coaches need to develop the players we have and give them solid schemes and game plans to work with while constantly looking for better ones. In a sport like basketball, one or 2 breakthrough recruits could push a program over the edge. We arguably had that player in WBB with Katey, and who knows what might have happened if we had the facilities we have now to recruit to following that sweet 16 run. Football is another matter. There should be an expectation level for success in all sports, and coaches who do not meet it at some point should be replaced.