[Sly Fox]

That may be out of our hands soon. Most P5 leagues are moving toward doing away with FCS games. I am sure the staff would prefer G5 games all day long over the guarantees.

[BJWilliams]

I'll let olldflame address your point in more detail jinxy, but I do disagree with not scheduling the P5 schools

Sly does raise a good point though with the fact that most of your top tier FBS are moving away from scheduling FCS opponents and replacing them with schools like Tulsa, Northern Illinois and fellow in-state school Old Dominion

[ballcoach15]

It's good to play one of the FBS teams each season. Like a couple posters commented on above, we need to beat the teams we should beat. Losing to WVA or VT doesn't hurt us as bad as losing to some inferior FCS team.

[soccer7]

If we would have beaten Gardner Webb or Monmouth we would have been in. We also had a crack at Charleston Southern that could have put us in as well. Like others have said beat the teams your suppose to beat on the schedule and everything is fine. I like the schedule and I'd you want to be an elite team then you schedule accordingly.

[jinxy]

Yeah so we're gonna be in the big 12 or acc soon so we should schedule accordingly. It's simple. Risk vs reward. What do we get for playing power 5. Usually a loss and injuries. It all about opportunities that help us. If we won a replacement fcs game got in the playoffs and won a game we would be feeling a lot different Duh if we beat grub or Monmouth we would have gotten in. That's not the point.

[soccer7]

Jinxy, your point is flawed. Risk vs reward is great for an FCS playing a P5 game. Your paid to get a crack at a big time win for your program. Do you think JMU is crying about their wins against VT and SMU? How about that App State game against Michigan? This program is trying to do something special in FCS while trying to get a crap at an FBS invitation. We are trying to show we can compete at a high level and there is no better way than scheduling. How can you disregard the fact that we lost a spot in the playoofs because we lost two games to Gardner Webb and Monmouth? Two games we should have won. We played a top eight FCS team in CSU that we lost. One win out off those three games gets us in. It was not because of a lose to WVU. What if we played down to Robert Morris and lost? We would still be out. Even if we would have won that one hypothetical game your proclaiming we probably would still have needed one more win to get in.

On a side note. Why do you think the P5's want to get away from scheduling FCS games?

[jinxy]

So you named 3 wins. HoW many losses and injuries are there during the same time. Probably a couple hundred. Also we dont need the money

[olldflame]

I have always liked the idea of playing one P5 a year, but I am starting to think it may not be in our best interest. Yes, we failed to capitalize on some opportunities on our schedule last year, but IMHO it is valid to say that we also lost another opportunity for a win which might have gotten us in by scheduling a team (WVU) we had almost no chance of beating.

I have no problem with playing the Hokies next year, because they are in state, and would also be all for scheduling UVA if the opportunity comes up for the same reason. Add Notre Dame and BYU to the list for obvious reasons. Other than that I'm inclined to say we may be better off sticking with one or 2 G5s and a tough FCS lineup.

[jinxy]

Bingo. You've got it.

[BJWilliams]

I think it's safe to say we agree to disagree on this one. Both sides do have their merits when you get down to brass tacks about it

[flamesfilmguy]

Also we dont need the money

This. we don't need the money. and the risk of it hurting us over the long run of the season is a lot higher than the money and (rare) TV exposure benefits. the last great FCS over FBS win was Michigan app state which launched APP into the national spotlight, it is now becoming more and more common for FCS teams to beat FBS teams. I believe it has increased every year since that game. Hence the fact that it is not worth what it used to be. We are more likely to profit as a university by investing in our mens bb program and making a GMU/VCU/FGCU/etc run.

[Sly Fox]

Pipe dream is a little harsh. But I agree that mens hoops is the best short-term investment for prominence. Of course, money doesn't always get it done by itself.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the P5 games vs. FCS are likely dying rather quickly. So this is somewhat of a moot discussion.

[olldflame]

Now that an FBS conference invitation is little more than a pipe dream, I agree about basketball. For an FCS school,BB is the best opportunity for national prominence. We should be pumping massive resources into McKay's program.

No argument from me on placing a greater focus on basketball, although as far as financial resources are concerned, I highly doubt Ritchie has been having any problems getting what he wants from day one. Changing the culture on and off campus to get both the student body and community as excited about hoops as they are about football may be the biggest challenge. Facilities are first class with the exception of the actual game venue, which will do for now (with a bit more sprucing up perhaps).

[BJWilliams]

I agree with changing the culture...as with everything in this situation, patience will be the key. Id love to see Coach and players visiting the schools, particularly the elementary schools, as those kids are going to be the future Flames fans and hopefully season ticket holders. Id love to see the basketball team walking in some of the local parades this year as well, among other things.

[forbidden]

Bottom line is you need to have the right athletes to win ANY type of games period, and in order to get the better athletes to come to LIBERTY university, well then you better be playing som "NAME" teams. If you still don't think LIBERTY U, is up against it in recruiting then you are only fooling yourselves. So to get the kids to want to try and come here and stay here the next selling point is in who you are playing against. Trust me when I tell you kids are not coming here to play the like or Robert Morris, and if it is you won't get very far, based on the type of athlete that you will be getting. IMHO, you play better schools, you have a better chance of getting possible that 1-2 kids needed to put you over the top when you play your conference games. People are REALLY forgetting a big thing here and that it is the KIDS that make the school not the school making the KIDS. Hate it all you want but its FACT

[olldflame]

I agree with changing the culture...as with everything in this situation, patience will be the key. Id love to see Coach and players visiting the schools, particularly the elementary schools, as those kids are going to be the future Flames fans and hopefully season ticket holders. Id love to see the basketball team walking in some of the local parades this year as well, among other things.

Patience has it's place, but when you need to get something done, it can actually work against you. Determination is what is needed.

Schools? Parades? Other things? Yeah, sure. Solid media promotions, creative giveaways and half time stuff aimed at kids to name a few. Tim East needs to earn that big paycheck.

On campus, I think a creative campaign to introduce the student body to the players, both current and future (those who have already signed) could be useful. If they aren't doing it already, they need to get Ritchie in front of them occasionally to talk about the team and his vision. They can see it anytime they want in the interviews he does with York and Nick on the AC website, but I don't think too many students are looking there.

[jinxy]

I'm with you a lot of times forbidden but not here. It's not that liberty is up against it recruiting. See baseball golf and softball where we're signing top 10 talent. It's the conference and the level werror at in football plus lack of success in basketball. That's straight from JB who knows more than any of us do. In football we don't have problems getting skill players. It's in the trenches because there areally fewer of those guys and everyone is looking for o line and d line help. That's straight from hctg. See those sports above have risen above conference restraints. That's what football and basketball have to do.

[olldflame]

Bottom line is you need to have the right athletes to win ANY type of games period, and in order to get the better athletes to come to LIBERTY university, well then you better be playing som "NAME" teams. If you still don't think LIBERTY U, is up against it in recruiting then you are only fooling yourselves. So to get the kids to want to try and come here and stay here the next selling point is in who you are playing against. Trust me when I tell you kids are not coming here to play the like or Robert Morris, and if it is you won't get very far, based on the type of athlete that you will be getting. IMHO, you play better schools, you have a better chance of getting possible that 1-2 kids needed to put you over the top when you play your conference games. People are REALLY forgetting a big thing here and that it is the KIDS that make the school not the school making the KIDS. Hate it all you want but its FACT

I don't believe players are going to choose Liberty (or any other school for that matter) based on one game a year against a name opponent. To schedule more than one would be truly foolhardy in terms of building a resume' for an at large bid. Some FCS schools have done it for the money, but they have paid a price in other areas. We don't need the money. NDSU is the one FCS school that has had any real degree of success against P5 opponents. They have played 4 in the last 6 years and won all 4, but look at who they have scheduled: Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and Minnesota. I dare say if you ask their players, almost to a man they would say the chance to win a FCS national championship every year had a lot more to do with their choosing to go there than one P5 game a year.

[forbidden]

Bottom line is you need to have the right athletes to win ANY type of games period, and in order to get the better athletes to come to LIBERTY university, well then you better be playing som "NAME" teams. If you still don't think LIBERTY U, is up against it in recruiting then you are only fooling yourselves. So to get the kids to want to try and come here and stay here the next selling point is in who you are playing against. Trust me when I tell you kids are not coming here to play the like or Robert Morris, and if it is you won't get very far, based on the type of athlete that you will be getting. IMHO, you play better schools, you have a better chance of getting possible that 1-2 kids needed to put you over the top when you play your conference games. People are REALLY forgetting a big thing here and that it is the KIDS that make the school not the school making the KIDS. Hate it all you want but its FACT

I don't believe players are going to choose Liberty (or any other school for that matter) based on one game a year against a name opponent. To schedule more than one would be truly foolhardy in terms of building a resume' for an at large bid. Some FCS schools have done it for the money, but they have paid a price in other areas. We don't need the money. NDSU is the one FCS school that has had any real degree of success against P5 opponents. They have played 4 in the last 6 years and won all 4, but look at who they have scheduled: Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and Minnesota. I dare say if you ask their players, almost to a man they would say the chance to win a FCS national championship every year had a lot more to do with their choosing to go there than one P5 game a year.

If you don't think that your REALLY fooling yourself, and this comes from kids I deal with on a daily as they wait for college coaches to come thru the building, what school who do they play what conf will will be on tv.
The biggest and only real difference when you say NDSU is that they WIN, and how did they win they got a few players here and there built something but they also like you were saying played a big name team here or there, but more than anything once they started winning those games a foundation was laid and more players chose that route to go. Bottom line is winning solves almost everything. Are we possibly having these types of convos had we gotten into the playoffs again this year. NO, we wouldn't it would be program moving right direction we got there blah blah blah, but to be in the conversation you have to be in the post season to begin with. And that begins with the types of players you have

[olldflame]

I understand you have a unique perspective on this forbidden. Let me ask you this. How would you rank the following things in terms of their importance in your sons decision to be a Flame?

Head Coach
Position Coach (or other assistants that recruited him)
Chance to play Carolina, WVU and VT in his 4 years
Opportunity to play
Facilities
Campus Experience (including the Liberty mission)
Chance to play for a championship.
Other benefits (including FCOA, although I know that wasn't around then)
Pretty girls
Anything else important I missed

[FlamesHighontheTide]

This may have already been said in the course of this thread, so my apologies if I am repeating someone else's thoughts. Nevertheless, this schedule that Barber and Gill and put together is the best football schedule that our school has ever had. 3 FBS schools (Virginia Tech, SMU and Coastal), The national runner-up Jacksonville State University(who is also a perennial powerhouse in FCS), Jacksonville University, Robert Morris and then our conference slate.

I know there are some of you who are against the toughness of this schedule and look at these tough games as our un-doing for a playoff berth. However, I want you to consider a few things before you shout loud and proud about this schedule not helping us. First, the strength of this schedule and this past years too shed light on the growth of our program under Turner Gill and Jeff Barber. This schedule also shows us that the big boys are willing to play us and willing to come to our house for games, that is a testament to the strength of our program. Secondly, when you play a tough out of conference schedule it helps you down the road in the playoffs.

Personally, I am more excited for this upcoming season than I have been since Turner Gill took over. Due to this schedule as well as the newness of this team with a new qb as well as some stellar recruits!

[olldflame]

This may have already been said in the course of this thread, so my apologies if I am repeating someone else's thoughts. Nevertheless, this schedule that Barber and Gill and put together is the best football schedule that our school has ever had. 3 FBS schools (Virginia Tech, SMU and Coastal), The national runner-up Jacksonville State University(who is also a perennial powerhouse in FCS), Jacksonville University, Robert Morris and then our conference slate.

I know there are some of you who are against the toughness of this schedule and look at these tough games as our un-doing for a playoff berth. However, I want you to consider a few things before you shout loud and proud about this schedule not helping us. First, the strength of this schedule and this past years too shed light on the growth of our program under Turner Gill and Jeff Barber. This schedule also shows us that the big boys are willing to play us and willing to come to our house for games, that is a testament to the strength of our program. Secondly, when you play a tough out of conference schedule it helps you down the road in the playoffs.

Personally, I am more excited for this upcoming season than I have been since Turner Gill took over. Due to this schedule as well as the newness of this team with a new qb as well as some stellar recruits!

I totally agree that it is an amazing schedule! I would have somewhat of an issue if the P5 game was not against VT. Love the fact that we have 2 beatable G5s (I will count the beach chickens, although I think they are technically still FCS) and 2 ranked FCS teams. HCTG and JB get an A+++++ for this one!

[BJWilliams]

You do raise a good point HighonTheTide...this is the second straight year we have had one of the upper tier FCS teams come TO LYNCHBURG to play us. In the past, those games would be likely road games with no return date. We also get two winnable FCS home games where we can make a statement and then we get to be the ones to kick Coastal out of the FCS plane down in Myrtle Beach in November. While both sides have their merits in this discussion, I personally like what we have laid out and I hope we see a TON of red in Lane Stadium this fall at the opener.

[forbidden]

I understand you have a unique perspective on this forbidden. Let me ask you this. How would you rank the following things in terms of their importance in your sons decision to be a Flame?

Head Coach
Position Coach (or other assistants that recruited him)
Chance to play Carolina, WVU and VT in his 4 years
Opportunity to play
Facilities
Campus Experience (including the Liberty mission)
Chance to play for a championship.
Other benefits (including FCOA, although I know that wasn't around then)
Pretty girls
Anything else important I missed

In his case I think it went like this based on our convos:
Position Coach - he loved Roberts
Chance to play for 'chip - how they preached how many times BSC champions
Head Coach - knew he was big time coach with big name, who believed in him when UNC and PSU pulled back after injury
Who was on schedule - would have a chance for exposure against FBS caliber players
Opportunity to Play - got time as 1 of 3 true frosh to play
Facilites - Top Notch
Campus Exp - felt he could blend in
Girls - if you play well they will come, along with more exposure
all else - Bonus including EDUCATION

[olldflame]

I understand you have a unique perspective on this forbidden. Let me ask you this. How would you rank the following things in terms of their importance in your sons decision to be a Flame?

Head Coach
Position Coach (or other assistants that recruited him)
Chance to play Carolina, WVU and VT in his 4 years
Opportunity to play
Facilities
Campus Experience (including the Liberty mission)
Chance to play for a championship.
Other benefits (including FCOA, although I know that wasn't around then)
Pretty girls
Anything else important I missed

In his case I think it went like this based on our convos:
Position Coach - he loved Roberts
Chance to play for 'chip - how they preached how many times BSC champions
Head Coach - knew he was big time coach with big name, who believed in him when UNC and PSU pulled back after injury
Who was on schedule - would have a chance for exposure against FBS caliber players
Opportunity to Play - got time as 1 of 3 true frosh to play
Facilites - Top Notch
Campus Exp - felt he could blend in
Girls - if you play well they will come, along with more exposure
all else - Bonus including EDUCATION

Thanks for sharing that, and I certainly did leave out an important one.