[LUconn]

Yeah, it sucks the Liberty Council is doing this bs......ask every lawyer, suing someone should be the last option, not the oppurtunity to get your name into something

ha, I bet any lawyer, most who make their money by suing, would openly admit suing is a last resort. Just ask Randal L Crandle or whatever that doof with the funny beard is named. Or any of the other sue happy injury lawyers who have 100 commercials on during judge judy.


And it doesnt suck that LC does this. It's what they do, exclusively. They are certainly not trying to get their name in the paper. One of the lawyers that works for LC goes to my church and spoke one Wednesday night. He said (I'm paraphrasing) if anybody ever has a case where they feel their religious rights are being wronged, to come see him and they'll take a look to see if there is a case. I'm assuming that's what happened here.

[jmdickens]

Ask any lawyer, or law school professor, judge, or someone being sued.....they will all say wait to file a suit.

It does suck LC is doing it for this particular case.....W&M is a private institution....they have their rights like we have ours..
We would be complaining out the rear if someone sued us over putting up a cross.

Let William and Mary decide

[TDDance234]

I agree. I'm glad he's taking the case. The state school is taking down the cross because it doesn't welcome other faiths. Why don't they build a Buddhist chapel or an Islamic chapel then and leave that one alone.

Ultimately, that is the best solution.

I have no problems with other setups, ie: a mosque, synagogue, whatever, but don't take away from one to build another.

[TallyW]

Ask any lawyer, or law school professor, judge, or someone being sued.....they will all say wait to file a suit.

It does suck LC is doing it for this particular case.....W&M is a private institution....they have their rights like we have ours..
We would be complaining out the rear if someone sued us over putting up a cross.

Let William and Mary decide

NOT SO FAST MY FRIEND:

From their website: "America's second-oldest college is also the best small public university in the nation."

If W&M is a public University than they have to play even more nicely with these things than we do. Also... NEWSFLASH... Everything that Liberty Counsel gets involved in will come down hard on the side of Christian values. That is exactly what they do. It just so happens that someone at the AP saw an opportunity to tie Dr. Falwell into the story. LC is working on TONS of other situations. ALSO... for some of the posters who haven't read very well... LC has not sued (yet). This is simply a letter saying "Hey, we think you may want to reconsider this one."

This same thing happened in Seattle last week over their Christmas Tree displays. Their reaction to "Equal protection" was to REMOVE the trees. The Jewish Rabbi who origionally sent the Seattle Airport a letter backed off and the trees went back up. This stuff happens every day. This is how our system works. We shouldn't be ashamed that there are people who keep tabs on this kind of thing... These organizations were started b/c Christians for too long went to sleep at the wheel. Most of the conservative groups were started precisely as a counterweight to the ACLU anyway. Talk about a group that can't MYOB...

This was just a letter. It wasn't a suit.

In ESPN.com today it's reported that Scott Boras was asked about why he called a press conference to discuss the Japanese pitcher's negotians with the Red Sox.... his response was "It's the American way". My friends... this letter is "The American Way" of handling things. I say way to go...

[El Scorcho]

It does suck LC is doing it for this particular case.....W&M is a private institution....they have their rights like we have ours..
We would be complaining out the rear if someone sued us over putting up a cross.

Let William and Mary decide

No.

W&M has already made their decision. This is why a suit is being filed. There was no rush to file a suit. In this case, pursuing the matter legally is the only option that will get the decision reversed.

Your analogy isn't fair, either. To compare, LU would have to have had a synagogue on campus for 70 years and then put up a cross on it, not paying any attention to all of the Jewish students on campus who didn't want a cross on the synagogue. Oh, and LU would have to be a public institution. Please see: http://www.wm.edu/about/index.php

My problem here has nothing to do with the actual matter being pursued, though. My problem is that the AP (and others, obviously) are spinning this as if Jerry Falwell ordered Matt Staver to attack William & Mary full force. Nothing could be further from the truth, as LC was asked to take the case by those involved. And, again, while LC is affiliated with LU, LU does NOT direct LC on which cases they choose to accept.

As for the accusations of headline seeking on the part of LC: Getting the media involved is a tactic that LC uses in their battle against the erosion of religious freedoms to rally support among people who care about the issues they often have to battle in court over. Awareness is key when you're trying to stop such things. If people aren't paying attention and speaking up, these sorts of things can just be swept under the rug. As an organization, LC cares nothing about being in the headlines. If it were about fame (and fame is always about money), LC would not do the amount of pro bono work that they do.

[LUconn]

uhhh... huh huh huh huh. You said "bono".

[Purple Haize]

You can NEVER beat a Beavis and Butthead saying/cartoon!!
This will always be the "grey" are that LU offshoots live in. You can say that LU is different than TRBC, than LCA, than Liberty Counsel, than Liberty Godparent home, The "New" Moral Majority. BUT they all have a common theme, connection with LU and its chancellor. If they are going to try to reap the benefits of that affiliation they should be willing to accept the difficulties and tie ins that go with it as well.
Yes, 7000 people signed a petition. Yes they have a right to be heard. But, and I will go back to this, do we need to sue over it? Wouldn't this be one of those frivolous law suits?
BTW, I hope for their sake all the Campbell county and Lynchburg City schools have Christmas trees up, b/c that would only bolster the boycott claim!!!

[El Scorcho]

Yes, 7000 people signed a petition. Yes they have a right to be heard. But, and I will go back to this, do we need to sue over it? Wouldn't this be one of those frivolous law suits?

WE are not suing. The 7,000 people who signed that petition sought representation, found it and are suing THEIR school. When a public institution makes a unilateral decision and refuses to reverse it, the legal avenue is the one you take. So yes, they need to sue over it.

As for frivolous, well that's not up to us. We're not the folks who feel that our religious freedoms were violated. They obviously don't feel that this is trivial, or the wouldn't be taking the route that they are.

[TallyW]

This thread is off base... As far as I have seen there is no law suit... just a 'friendly' letter.

[Hold My Own]

you are correct, Crosses, Church's, Nativity Scenes, Religion is all frivolous. I think I'm going to adopt a new way of thinking...as Christians we should not speak out, or "put our noses where it doesn't belong" but just stay quite, and I am certain that everything will work out for the common good...heck if we're quite enough abortion will be against the law and prayer will be back in schools in no time

[Fumblerooskies]

As Christians, are we not called to be Christ-like?
Did Christ not stick his nose where the authorities thought it did not belong?

Perhaps we look at the entire conference affiliation wrong...
...that we are being penalized for our university being Christ-like and that we are better than the Big South and why are the officials always against us?

Those perceived injustices may very well be a penalty for being Christ-like, and if it is...
...then I say bring it on. The university, JF, LC, the Moral Majority, and any other JF affiliations should never compromise its principles just because of how they might affect the athletic program...
...just as I pray that our athletic program never compromises Christian principles just to get the W's.

[Hold My Own]

indeed

[PAmedic]

As Christians, are we not called to be Christ-like?
Did Christ not stick his nose where the authorities thought it did not belong?

ok, gotta admit- good counterpoint FR

[Hold My Own]

I hope yall picked up on the sarcasm in my comments

[Fumblerooskies]

Indeed.

[Libertine]

I hope yall picked up on the sarcasm in my comments

Sarcasm?! On a message board?!

Well, I never!


That right there's what they call the subtle irony, Billy Bob.

[Purple Haize]

What?? We are allowed to be sarcastic?? Who knew!!
My point is this, the 7000 people have a right to what they please. IMO it is not the best of ideas. When you bring Liberty Council into it you are OBVIOUSLY going to get the tie ins. That may be why they have deep roots in the burg, and have a name similar to that of a school in Lynchburg. When you do that you have to take the good with the bad. I am not sure how suing solves the problem, but do see how it causes more of a rift. I am pretty sure all of the suits against Wal Mart last year were lost, but lo and behold, they now say Merry Christmas.. Was it because of the law suits or the fact people voted with their feet?
Do we REALLY want to bring abortion into the argument.
TALLY - I think there was sarcasm in your "friendly letter" comment.

[TallyW]

Purple... what gave it away.... was it that stupid smiley face?

I gotta be more careful with those things....

[Hold My Own]

rift isnt always a bad thing...making things public isnt always a bad thing. I promise you theres going to be a Christian family out there somewhere who was on the fence about W&M and that sealed the deal....hundreds of families...doubtful but at least some

Dont sit on your thumb to long...you'll end up getting used to it and wont know any better

[A.G.]

Dont sit on your thumb to long...you'll end up getting used to it and wont know any better

But it feels SO GOOOOOD!

[PAmedic]

But it feels SO GOOOOOD!

flat out nasty, AG

[Fumblerooskies]

That's wrong...
...funny...
...but wrong.

[Purple Haize]

rift isnt always a bad thing...making things public isnt always a bad thing. I promise you theres going to be a Christian family out there somewhere who was on the fence about W&M and that sealed the deal....hundreds of families...doubtful but at least some

Dont sit on your thumb to long...you'll end up getting used to it and wont know any better

I guess that is my point. Those "fence sitters" (Which makes you wonder what is up THEIR butt) are going to vote with their feet and tuition dollars. FAR more effective than a law suit or a threat of one.

[TallyW]

You're right Haize... Christians should shut up and take it...

ohh yeah... and legal action never gets anything productive done <----

[Purple Haize]

I never said they should "shut up and take it" and I never said that "nothing positive" came b/c of a law suit. I mean look at Larry Flint, he would be broke without a law suit LOL.
My point is not EVERYTHING needs to be handled through a legal process, or a "friendly" letter. Wal - Mart changed their policy b/c of the bottom line. If W and M lose students b/c of this dust up, I bet you they will change their policy. THere are things that DO need to be handled in court. I have been on BOTH sides of that issue and even have one on retainer. But I don't go crying to them when some one does something I don't like. I look for other avenues to resolve the situation first. Secondly, the main burr in my saddle, is groups (Read Conservatives) like this always say the courts are being bogged down by "frivolous lawsuits", yet turn right around and file one themselves. THAT is the double standard that I don't care for.
As for good things that come out of law suits it is a mixed bag. John Edwards is a nice example of BAD. Brown V Board of Education is Good. I have no issue with using "the law" (Channeling Sylvester Stallone in Judge Dredd) to solve several issues. Not sure this one is up there