[forbidden]

Ok, by now I'm sure we all know that something is steadfastly wrong here, and unfortunately something may have to happen at the end of the year. The question I pose is this. How much is this on the staff and how much of this is on the players. You see the kids playing hard but its not enough, are they just not talented enough or not good teammates, or could this be coaching. I'm just being honest here, its been the staff that has been putting this recipe together, and what has come out of the oven is just not cutting it. I know they work hard, but could it be falling on deaf ears at this point. Do the coaches know talent or do they not. Noone on this team is really the "guy". You have a team of about 12 role players. Who do you place the results on, and I'm sorry to say, IMO again its the coaches that have built what we have, and also what we don't have.

I made a comment earlier, when talking about coaches, is it the coach that makes the school, or is it the school, or better yet is it the kids that make the school. I posed this, what if Coach K was here, would we be having this type of outcome or would we be better, which would then lead to better recruits or what have you. Would you say that Duke would still be Duke without Coach K, all the prestige and hype that they receive. Most coaches do the same and teach the same, so where is the disconnect with this team. It looks like the recruiters cannot pick out talent and therefore this is the end result. These boys can't or I atleast hope they cannot be this bad, something has to give.

[ballcoach15]

Recruiting is the key. Every team in BSC has at least 3 players better than our best player .We have no go to guy. Layer is not a good recruiter. Proof is on the court.

[Purple Haize]

Ok, by now I'm sure we all know that something is steadfastly wrong here, and unfortunately something may have to happen at the end of the year. The question I pose is this. How much is this on the staff and how much of this is on the players. You see the kids playing hard but its not enough, are they just not talented enough or not good teammates, or could this be coaching. I'm just being honest here, its been the staff that has been putting this recipe together, and what has come out of the oven is just not cutting it. I know they work hard, but could it be falling on deaf ears at this point. Do the coaches know talent or do they not. Noone on this team is really the "guy". You have a team of about 12 role players. Who do you place the results on, and I'm sorry to say, IMO again its the coaches that have built what we have, and also what we don't have.

I made a comment earlier, when talking about coaches, is it the coach that makes the school, or is it the school, or better yet is it the kids that make the school. I posed this, what if Coach K was here, would we be having this type of outcome or would we be better, which would then lead to better recruits or what have you. Would you say that Duke would still be Duke without Coach K, all the prestige and hype that they receive. Most coaches do the same and teach the same, so where is the disconnect with this team. It looks like the recruiters cannot pick out talent and therefore this is the end result. These boys can't or I atleast hope they cannot be this bad, something has to give.

That is not a correct statement.

[flameshaw]

Greg Marshall- Winthrop. School doesn't make the coach. Duke would not be near the same without Coach K. UCLA hasn't been very good since John Wooden left. We are bad because Layer and staff have recruited kids who are not capable of playing D1 basketball at a high level. Layer seems to be a pretty good guy, but a change is needed immediately after the end of the season. Based on his results, he might be the most overpaid coach in the country.

[BJWilliams]

You do know the boys from Westwood have a national championship from the 1990s right Flameshaw?

[Purple Haize]

You do know the boys from Westwood have a national championship from the 1990s right Flameshaw?

Not to mention a streak of I think 3 straight Final Four appearances not so long ago.

[flameshaw]

You do know the boys from Westwood have a national championship from the 1990s right Flameshaw?

Yes guys I know they have had some success since Wooden left, not totally brain dead............yet. However, one NC in the 90's and a few Final Fours are nothing to celebrate in Westwood, based on their previous history. To compare that with what Wooden accomplished, is like comparing apples to elephants.

[Purple Haize]

You do know the boys from Westwood have a national championship from the 1990s right Flameshaw?

Yes guys I know they have had some success since Wooden left, not totally brain dead............yet. However, one NC in the 90's and a few Final Fours are nothing to celebrate in Westwood, based on their previous history. To compare that with what Wooden accomplished, is like comparing apples to elephants.

No one in Westwood expects a return to the later Wooden years. They are/were more than happy with the success they had winning a NC and the Final Four. UCLA fans know what they had was special and no one will ever repeat that. They would be more than happy with a NC and 'a few Final Fours' over the next decade. It won't happen because Alford may be the most over rated coach ever, but if he did they'd love him for it.

[JK37]

Haize beat me to it: no one will ever replicate what Wooden did at UCLA.

I'll throw my hat in the ring. As with most cases, the issue here isn't one thing alone. But I do think the biggest thing has to be recruiting. And let me tell you a little secret: assistants do more of it than HC's. Doesn't mean the HC isn't involved; the degree varies. But assistants are far more involved most of the year. However, the HC is still completely culpable, because he/she leads the program. They have the final word, and the buck stops there.

It's absolutely not the school. Not in this case.

[JK37]

I said that to point out a HC doesn't have to be a "great recruiter" in order to sign good kids.

[ballcoach15]

Liberty should be able to recruit as well, if not better, than any school in Big South,

[Sly Fox]

Haize beat me to it: no one will ever replicate what Wooden did at UCLA.

I'll throw my hat in the ring. As with most cases, the issue here isn't one thing alone. But I do think the biggest thing has to be recruiting. And let me tell you a little secret: assistants do more of it than HC's. Doesn't mean the HC isn't involved; the degree varies. But assistants are far more involved most of the year. However, the HC is still completely culpable, because he/she leads the program. They have the final word, and the buck stops there.

It's absolutely not the school. Not in this case.

Best analysis yet but no one should be surprised. Keep in mind that hiring assistants is one of the primary responsibilities for a head coach. So their shortcomings reflect on the head man as well.

[forbidden]

Liberty should be able to recruit as well, if not better, than any school in Big South,

Why, what has MBB done that would want a recruit to come here. Longwood, I think has been traditionally better than LU. That big arena as you can see means NOTHING when its empty.

[ballcoach15]

Can someone provide attendance figures when Seth Curry was in town, compared to now ?

[TIMSCAR20]

Liberty should be able to recruit as well, if not better, than any school in Big South,

Why, what has MBB done that would want a recruit to come here. Longwood, I think has been traditionally better than LU. That big arena as you can see means NOTHING when its empty.

As a kid being recruited you would look at the facilities and the access to state of the art buildings like the Library and the dorms and the chance to play on TV more than half the season which is more than most at this level and think wow this could be fun. I think Liberty SHOULD have an advantage recruiting over most Big South Schools too. I do think the level of talent in the program could be a little better but I don't think it is nearly as bad as some think. I think 1 or 2 dynamic players would make a HUGE difference with this group. HS kids have no idea what is happening in the Big South standings this season or any season prior for the most part. Those things cited above are not a factor in my opinion. Recruiting at this level is about showing extreme interest in the players that you really want and going after them until you get them. Liberty has a ton more to offer than most Big South Schools or most mid major schools for that matter in almost every category except rules and conference affiliation. The rules thing can be overcome pretty easily IMO. Again, if kids are willing to go to VMI under their rules, or Charleston Southern and Longwood with their tiny gyms, you don't think they would want to play at Liberty?

I don't know what happens or does not happen with recruiting at LU but I am sure the staff there now goes after good players. I believe they have signed some talent this year but it hasn't come together. Say what you will about the past few seasons but there has been talent in this program. Personally as I stated, I would like to see a couple of STUDS in the program like Anthony Smith, Dwight Brewington or even John Brown(Liberty version) There just isn't anyone like those guys in the program right now that are game changers.

[ballcoach15]

Scar, good post. One or two players would make a big difference. For some reason, we do not bring in "game changers", guys who can take over a game, and be a threat to score 15-25 points nightly.

It seems that if one of the current players gets "hot" and hits a few shots, he ends up on the bench for an extended period of time. I recall 2 occasions where a player had 8 or 10 points in first 10 minutes of game and end up with I believe 12 points for the game. That's not good production in a 40 minute game.

[TIMSCAR20]

Scar, good post. One or two players would make a big difference. For some reason, we do not bring in "game changers", guys who can take over a game, and be a threat to score 15-25 points nightly.

It seems that if one of the current players gets "hot" and hits a few shots, he ends up on the bench for an extended period of time. I recall 2 occasions where a player had 8 or 10 points in first 10 minutes of game and end up with I believe 12 points for the game. That's not good production in a 40 minute game.

I truly believed and still believe in Tomasz Gielo. He did it against Delaware but he really never showed the desire to take over a game other than that which is surprising given the fact that this is his SR season. I thought he would have a sense of urgency and start putting it up more. He got hurt but we saw enough of him this season to assess the fact that maybe it just isn't in his DNA to be that way. If he had Seth Curry's mentality, he would avg. 25!

[ballcoach15]

I thought he was a streak shooter like some of the others. He'd have a good half and disappear.

[TheGovernor]

Scar, good post. One or two players would make a big difference. For some reason, we do not bring in "game changers", guys who can take over a game, and be a threat to score 15-25 points nightly.

It seems that if one of the current players gets "hot" and hits a few shots, he ends up on the bench for an extended period of time. I recall 2 occasions where a player had 8 or 10 points in first 10 minutes of game and end up with I believe 12 points for the game. That's not good production in a 40 minute game.

I truly believed and still believe in Tomasz Gielo. He did it against Delaware but he really never showed the desire to take over a game other than that which is surprising given the fact that this is his SR season. I thought he would have a sense of urgency and start putting it up more. He got hurt but we saw enough of him this season to assess the fact that maybe it just isn't in his DNA to be that way. If he had Seth Curry's mentality, he would avg. 25!

If he has Seth's mentality, he wouldnt have been at Liberty in the first place. He would have been in the Big 10.

[Purple Haize]

I think Gielo would have grown in to that roll as the season progressed. Considering who dominated the ball the last 2 years I think he was on the other end of that and not wanting to be seen as a ball hog. He would have found that balance by this point

[bballfan84]

I think we have really good role players..like SCAR said this team is missing even just 1 go to scorer..if you had a larry blair or john brown you are looking at a totally different team..I do not think Layer has done a good job developing talent and putting some of our players in position to fully maximize their talent..I think I could personally coach Gielo to player of the year.

[forbidden]

I think we have really good role players..like SCAR said this team is missing even just 1 go to scorer..if you had a larry blair or john brown you are looking at a totally different team..I do not think Layer has done a good job developing talent and putting some of our players in position to fully maximize their talent..I think I could personally coach Gielo to player of the year.

Forget player of the Year, can you coach the team to a conference win

[bballfan84]

haha i think so

[ballcoach15]

I haven't coached in a few years, but I'd love to give it a try one more time.

[bballfan84]

I think some of the assistant coaches could do a better job than layer