[Purple Haize]

While i will ignore our vertically challenged friend's comment...

My point was that while I do think that the current players and coaches need to have a healthy respect and understanding of the history of the program and that having that connection is a good thing, it needs to be balanced. You hit on that by saying they don't need to be part of the final decision as far as player and personnel matters (which is what I was getting at with the debt and reparations thing), but they do at least need to be reached out to (hench the thing with having athletic alumni liaisons)

Yet you acknowledge it.....

[BJWilliams]

Yeah I know. I just wasn't going to dignify it with a proper comeback because something that childish from someone only slightly taller than most middle schoolers doesnt deserve one

[SuperJon]

You don't have much room to talk when it comes to not deserving a dignified response.

[Purple Haize]

Yeah I know. I just wasn't going to dignify it with a proper comeback because something that childish from someone only slightly taller than most middle schoolers doesnt deserve one

Yet you did....

[BJWilliams]

Anyway...

I think that having someone who can act as a sort of conduit between the coaches would be a great thing.

[Purple Haize]

Anyway...

I think that having someone who can act as a sort of conduit between the coaches would be a great thing.

No it wouldn't The staff has enough people on it that they can get the contact info and do their own reach out. Heck, just the people local would give you enough info to fill in a lot of players

[JK37]

Program alumni don't deserve recognition based solely on their four-year experience. They received an education. Respect is fine, I can respect the hard work they put in. But the expectation of continued handouts and notoriety and consultation - these things cross the line from deserved respect to entitlement. And too many former student-athletes cross that line. Not that surprising, either, given that many are products of a system that breeds that entitlement.

Tim, the things you mentioned (alumni dinners, weekends, games, etc.) are fine. My issue arises with those who expect them. I understand your perspective and your bias. I appreciate and respect how you and other alumni represented the University. And those events are fun! But I won't to so far as to say such alumni events are deserved, or that the current staff or any other coaching staff is wrong for not organizing them.

I know for a fact that the time commitment required to orchestrate such events cannot be justified. Most organizations have one or a committee of alumni who organize such events. Why not have alumni themselves step-up to plan such an event and liaise with the current coaches? That would make much more sense, rather than just expecting current staffers to do it in-season.

[Purple Haize]

Program alumni don't deserve recognition based solely on their four-year experience. They received an education. Respect is fine, I can respect the hard work they put in. But the expectation of continued handouts and notoriety and consultation - these things cross the line from deserved respect to entitlement. And too many former student-athletes cross that line. Not that surprising, either, given that many are products of a system that breeds that entitlement.

Tim, the things you mentioned (alumni dinners, weekends, games, etc.) are fine. My issue arises with those who expect them. I understand your perspective and your bias. I appreciate and respect how you and other alumni represented the University. And those events are fun! But I won't to so far as to say such alumni events are deserved, or that the current staff or any other coaching staff is wrong for not organizing them.

I know for a fact that the time commitment required to orchestrate such events cannot be justified. Most organizations have one or a committee of alumni who organize such events. Why not have alumni themselves step-up to plan such an event and liaise with the current coaches? That would make much more sense, rather than just expecting current staffers to do it in-season.

We will agree to disagree on this one. I know some one who played at Radford for 2 years and LU for 2 years. Guess who she receives more info about? I still get stuff from my school and I live 5 States Away. I get invites to everything, even though they know I can't go. But when I do I try to get a hold of people from my Era and have a good time.
Sorry, but I EXPECT, those things and I DID those things. And this was before email and cell phones. The Staff are the new people. It's incumbent for them to reach out to the people who have already been there. That's a big building block in how you build a Program. Not having done so after 6 years is a huge mistake.
To your point about time a couple of things. If you actually reached out to the Alumni maybe they would put something together. Why? Because they feel wanted. If the staff doesn't reach out what's the point? They feel like party crashers. Secondly, you can do something in the off season.
Bottom line, it all boils down to feeling wanted. People go where they are wanted. Apparently, our alumni are not wanted

[Purple Haize]

Case in points i now a kid who coaches at some Catholic School who sends out text message updates of each game. That's a little thing that former players think is a big deal. Keeps everyone 'in the loop'

[bluejacket]

I disagree that former players aren't owed anything. I think they should be owed respect and shown respect. They put 4 years, for the most part, of blood sweat and tears to help build or sustain their respective programs. The absolute LEAST they deserve is respect and acknowledgement of that. They most certainly are not deserving of input into every player and personnel decision, but communicating with them, reaching out to them and making them part of a family are owed to them.

[flameshaw]

I believe the admin has recently done a bit better trying to connect with former athletes, but we still have a long way to go. I have done quite a bit of research on what other schools do, and we are behind the curve quite a lot.
Part of the problem is that we have people who have little knowledge of athletics making decisions, protecting silos, money seems to play a part in this too, for some reason. Another decision that was poorly thought out, was to include club sports as part of a "varsity club".
I am hoping that we can improve in this area soon, there is a lot of untapped potential/talent/knowledge, that we are not taking advantage of as a university family.

[JK37]

How can one appreciate something appropriately if they receive it after feeling it was owed to them?

All things mentioned are great and they do foster a close program atmosphere. They are good to do, and so they should be done. My problem is with the sense of entitlement of some who are also unwilling to get involved.

I don't think we actually disagree that much.

[Purple Haize]

How can one appreciate something appropriately if they receive it after feeling it was owed to them?

All things mentioned are great and they do foster a close program atmosphere. They are good to do, and so they should be done. My problem is with the sense of entitlement of some who are also unwilling to get involved.

I don't think we actually disagree that much.

C
The key missing segment to your argument is the openness of the staff. Coaches come and go. You will be an Alum of the school for life. No coach wants over eager alum knocking down their doors asking if they can do something But a coaching staff reaching out on a relatively regular basis would go along way. 16 years ago we used to have alumni games etc for basketball. Now what?
This is where it's more about W-L and more about building a Program or dare I say a Tradition. No sport has that ( maybe soccer) and that's a shame

[TIMSCAR20]

JK it isn't about what is owed to the alum. None of us are looking for handouts. That is not what I am saying. Simple communication and connectivity to the program is what I am talking about. The last 3 alumni games were organized by a professional project manager that moonlights as a TV analyst from time to time. It was quite the undertaking. Now that I have kids and I don't play basketball anymore I didn't have time or motivation to do it again. But I was able to build a database of contact info of former players that I passed to the athletic dept and I know they appreciated that. It was a ton of leg work but I was happy to do it because I felt that the program was starting to head in a good direction and with so many changes starting to take place on campus I felt those guys needed to see it all.

It is always WISE to connect with the past and the history of an athletic program in which you are the leader. I know a ton of coaches that agree with that. It just fosters an environment of brotherhood and support. It isn't about what is owed or expected. It is about belonging to something important that you helped create and was a part of for a brief 4 or 5 years.

[TIMSCAR20]

This conversation has little to do with how things are going with the team btw. I hope nobody got that impression from this.

[BJWilliams]

JK it isn't about what is owed to the alum. None of us are looking for handouts. That is not what I am saying. Simple communication and connectivity to the program is what I am talking about. The last 3 alumni games were organized by a professional project manager that moonlights as a TV analyst from time to time. It was quite the undertaking. Now that I have kids and I don't play basketball anymore I didn't have time or motivation to do it again. But I was able to build a database of contact info of former players that I passed to the athletic dept and I know they appreciated that. It was a ton of leg work but I was happy to do it because I felt that the program was starting to head in a good direction and with so many changes starting to take place on campus I felt those guys needed to see it all.

It is always WISE to connect with the past and the history of an athletic program in which you are the leader. I know a ton of coaches that agree with that. It just fosters an environment of brotherhood and support. It isn't about what is owed or expected. It is about belonging to something important that you helped create and was a part of for a brief 4 or 5 years.

This...I believe I mentioned that it is important that the current and future flames players (and even coaches) have a healthy understanding of and respect for those who have come before, because they stand on the shouders of those people. whether someone like SCAR or Matt Hildebrand or Peter Aluma or Larry Blair or Jason Sarchet or any of the hundreds of men (and women) who have suited up for Liberty in basketball over the past (I believe) 40 plus seasons. Being able to connect the two is a very good thing regardless of sport

[JK37]

Scar and PH, I believe we essentially agree. I'm a bit sensitive to the subject, because I've seen it go bad before. It is good, and wise, to connect the past with the present - if for no other reason there can be benefit reaped by the present student-athletes. There were other placing negative judgment upon the current staff because they aren't planning alumni games or reaching out to program alums. I don't believe that fair, not do I believe that should be a criteria for the basis of Dale's job security.

[Purple Haize]

Scar and PH, I believe we essentially agree. I'm a bit sensitive to the subject, because I've seen it go bad before. It is good, and wise, to connect the past with the present - if for no other reason there can be benefit reaped by the present student-athletes. There were other placing negative judgment upon the current staff because they aren't planning alumni games or reaching out to program alums. I don't believe that fair, not do I believe that should be a criteria for the basis of Dale's job security.

If he's not reaching out that's on him. It should not be the reason he is no longer here, if for no other reason that would be holding him to a standard no other coach is held to.
I have seen it go bad only in situations where alumni want a say in day to day operations etc.

[huntandfish]

The lack of connection with the alumni base is a problem with other sports as well. As a former baseball player we have no connection anymore. Yes an alumni game happens but I'm talking about real connection. The first alumni game was huge and I think the last one was about 20 folks and most of them were there to see Big Al. There seems to be a real disconnect with some of the coaches and the alumni. I know one coach said we have better players than was here when you were around. Maybe so but you can't say that. We need coaches that will connect the old with the new. It is great to know where you came from along with where you are going. I can only hope the next BB coach will do that. There are a ton of BB players that could fire up the team. I know SCAR could.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Connecting with alumni should be part of the job description and yearly evaluations (I assume LU coaches get an official yearly evaluation?) for every coach at every school in the country. If a coach isn't connecting with alumni then he/she isn't doing the job to the best of his/her ability.

[TIMSCAR20]

At the risk of sounding like Sly, I know Liberty is not NC State or Duke etc. but my friends that have played at those schools (Kenny Inge and Grant Hill for example) are always posting on FB and talking about events they attend or about their pride and connection with the current team/coaching staff. Hill played for Coach K so the connection is obvious but Inge played for a coach 2 coaches ago in Herb Syndeck (sp). Also did you guys see Jim Larranaga from Miami go visit a former Hurricane player in the hospital? He didn't even know the guy but he is a former Cane so in Jim's mind, he is family. AGAIN NOT SAYING this is why Layer has struggled. I'm just saying I hope that the past begins to be a bridge to the future in ALL of Liberty athletics.

[huntandfish]

Well said I only wish the Baseball alums were as welcomed as the old guys when I played. We would set around and listen to those guys for hours and I don't buy the talent is better now. Three of those guys played in the big leagues I know that BB would want the same. We are family after all.

[BJWilliams]

At the risk of sounding like Sly, I know Liberty is not NC State or Duke etc. but my friends that have played at those schools (Kenny Inge and Grant Hill for example) are always posting on FB and talking about events they attend or about their pride and connection with the current team/coaching staff. Hill played for Coach K so the connection is obvious but Inge played for a coach 2 coaches ago in Herb Syndeck (sp). Also did you guys see Jim Larranaga from Miami go visit a former Hurricane player in the hospital? He didn't even know the guy but he is a former Cane so in Jim's mind, he is family. AGAIN NOT SAYING this is why Layer has struggled. I'm just saying I hope that the past begins to be a bridge to the future in ALL of Liberty athletics.

And from this was born my idea of having alumni liaisons for all of the sports

[Purple Haize]

At the risk of sounding like Sly, I know Liberty is not NC State or Duke etc. but my friends that have played at those schools (Kenny Inge and Grant Hill for example) are always posting on FB and talking about events they attend or about their pride and connection with the current team/coaching staff. Hill played for Coach K so the connection is obvious but Inge played for a coach 2 coaches ago in Herb Syndeck (sp). Also did you guys see Jim Larranaga from Miami go visit a former Hurricane player in the hospital? He didn't even know the guy but he is a former Cane so in Jim's mind, he is family. AGAIN NOT SAYING this is why Layer has struggled. I'm just saying I hope that the past begins to be a bridge to the future in ALL of Liberty athletics.

And from this was born my idea of having alumni liaisons for all of the sports

Which is still a bad idea. It works with boosters not former players

[phoenix]

The real answer to this question is, I think, not on the poll. Layer should be fired at the end of LAST SEASON.

Somebody get Barber a time machine and make that happen.