[TheGovernor]

I REALLY wasnt going to say anything here... but I cant take it anymore. Since none of you know who I am, you're just going to have to take my word for it on a lot of these things.

1. ANYONE who thinks that Smith, Porter, and Blair were "Thugs" is ignorant (and thats the nicest word I can come up with). Get to know those guys, they would literally do anything for anyone. How dare anyone call their character into question. I literally want to puke. Knowing their families, their families would be highly offended of anyone making such a statement. Name one person they threatened, got in a fight with, beat up, committed a crime against... dont worry, Ill wait. To make a determination of someone's character because of something they chose to do, and not look at the life changes they made to grow up and accept their responsibility is completely irresponsible and uncalled for. I think Scar proved this point when he said that people didn't get to know him before drawing the same conclusions. None of you would allow me to get on here and make personal attacks at the character of JB, DL, etc., and I know them better than anyone knows those other guys that have negative things to say. I wouldnt do that because it is irresponsible and ridiculous. Just because someone made a mistake from your personal viewpoint doesn't mean they consider it to be one.

2. For those of you to say its tough to recruit at Liberty, GO HOME. First of all, Liberty is no where near as strict as it was when other coaches, Meyer (and his staff), RD (and his staff), and Ritchie (and his staff) were able to recruit top talent. How in the world is BYU ever a top 10 team? THEY CANT EVEN DRINK SODA/COFFEE. How does VMI get more talent? Who in the world would commit to go to a military school and go through what they have to go through. Liberty is more relaxed, has amazing facilities and resources, and asks that you dont get arrested (unless you play football, then do whatever you want). Recruiting is an art form, it isnt hard because you're at Liberty, it is bad because you tick off 8/12 players every year. Their high school coaches, AAU coaches, and friends are not going to send kids to Liberty when you have made them upset. Manson said before, talk to those guys. Name another player that we have recruited from Seth Curry's high school after Seth.... Dont worry, Ill wait. They have had top talent and a coach that still appreciated Liberty. Go Look up Anthony VanHook, he plays for a Liberty Alum. Manson has pointed out that Alcegaire is killing at the school he is at. Im basing this off what Manson said, but it looks to me like Liberty could really use Wes. All of these "Thugs" that we have had in the past would probably be a great point of reference for Liberty in their home state too, but no one over there wants help. No one over there wants anyone to help them out and THAT is a pride issue. You don't think that Jason Allison would use that connection to recruit Vanhook? Go look at who is recruiting him. Stop making excuses for people that aren't doing their job that make WAY MORE money than you do. Its gross. You're slobbering on yourself. If MBB/athletics was responsible, they would use FF and FlamesNation to their benefit because everyone Google's everything... but they dont. Make them take responsibility for SOMETHING. Don't say they run a clean program, because that is what they are supposed to do. Don't say they dont recruit thugs, because there have been players on the roster the last 3-4 years that would make you cringe, but they are white so no one is afraid of them.

The reason I sat on this message board for so long as someone who reads posts and not someone who writes them are because of these kinds of conversations.

[Purple Haize]

I REALLY wasnt going to say anything here... but I cant take it anymore. Since none of you know who I am, you're just going to have to take my word for it on a lot of these things.

1. ANYONE who thinks that Smith, Porter, and Blair were "Thugs" is a ignorant (and thats the nicest word I can come up with). Get to know those guys, they would literally do anything for anyone. How dare anyone call their character into question. I literally want to puke. Knowing their families, their families would be highly offended of anyone making such a statement. Name one person they threatened, got in a fight with, beat up, committed a crime against... dont worry, Ill wait. To make a determination of someone's character because of something they chose to do, and not look at the life changes they made to grow up and accept their responsibility is completely irresponsible and uncalled for. I think Scar proved this point when he said that people didn't get to know him before drawing the same conclusions. None of you would allow me to get on here and make personal attacks at the character of JB, DL, etc., and I know them better than anyone knows those other guys that have negative things to say. I wouldnt do that because it is irresponsible and ridiculous. Just because someone made a mistake from your personal viewpoint doesn't mean they consider it to be one.

2. For those of you to say its tough to recruit at Liberty, GO HOME. First of all, Liberty is no where near as strict as it was when other coaches, Meyer (and his staff), RD (and his staff), and Ritchie (and his staff) were able to recruit top talent. How in the world is BYU ever a top 10 team? THEY CANT EVEN DRINK SODA/COFFEE. How does VMI get more talent? Who in the world would commit to go to a military school and go through what they have to go through. Liberty is more relaxed, has amazing facilities and resources, and asks that you dont get arrested (unless you play football, then do whatever you want). Recruiting is an art form, it isnt hard because you're at Liberty, it is bad because you whiz off 8/12 players every year. Their high school coaches, AAU coaches, and friends are not going to send kids to Liberty when you have made them upset. Manson said before, talk to those guys. Name another player that we have recruited from Seth Curry's high school after Seth.... Dont worry, Ill wait. They have had top talent and a coach that still appreciated Liberty. Go Look up Anthony VanHook, he plays for a Liberty Alum. Manson has pointed out that Alcegaire is killing at the school he is at. Im basing this off what Manson said, but it looks to me like Liberty could really use Wes. All of these "Thugs" that we have had in the past would probably be a great point of reference for Liberty in their home state too, but no one over there wants help. No one over there wants anyone to help them out and THAT is a pride issue. You don't think that Jason Allison would use that connection to recruit Vanhook? Go look at who is recruiting him. Stop making excuses for people that aren't doing their job that make WAY MORE money than you do. Its gross. You're slobbering on yourself. If MBB/athletics was responsible, they would use FF and FlamesNation to their benefit because everyone Google's everything... but they dont. Make them take responsibility for SOMETHING. Don't say they run a clean program, because that is what they are supposed to do. Don't say they dont recruit thugs, because there have been players on the roster the last 3-4 years that would make you cringe, but they are white so no one is afraid of them.

The reason I sat on this message board for so long as someone who reads posts and not someone who writes them are because of these kinds of conversations.

I agree about the personal attacks. I mean SCAR is a straight up hood from Compton but the other guys? No way I'd put them in that category. I'm not saying we haven't had thugs in the MBB program but not those guys

As for your second point....... I guess you and ROOSTER won't be exchanging Christmas Cards

[TheGovernor]

I REALLY wasnt going to say anything here... but I cant take it anymore. Since none of you know who I am, you're just going to have to take my word for it on a lot of these things.

1. ANYONE who thinks that Smith, Porter, and Blair were "Thugs" is a ignorant (and thats the nicest word I can come up with). Get to know those guys, they would literally do anything for anyone. How dare anyone call their character into question. I literally want to puke. Knowing their families, their families would be highly offended of anyone making such a statement. Name one person they threatened, got in a fight with, beat up, committed a crime against... dont worry, Ill wait. To make a determination of someone's character because of something they chose to do, and not look at the life changes they made to grow up and accept their responsibility is completely irresponsible and uncalled for. I think Scar proved this point when he said that people didn't get to know him before drawing the same conclusions. None of you would allow me to get on here and make personal attacks at the character of JB, DL, etc., and I know them better than anyone knows those other guys that have negative things to say. I wouldnt do that because it is irresponsible and ridiculous. Just because someone made a mistake from your personal viewpoint doesn't mean they consider it to be one.

2. For those of you to say its tough to recruit at Liberty, GO HOME. First of all, Liberty is no where near as strict as it was when other coaches, Meyer (and his staff), RD (and his staff), and Ritchie (and his staff) were able to recruit top talent. How in the world is BYU ever a top 10 team? THEY CANT EVEN DRINK SODA/COFFEE. How does VMI get more talent? Who in the world would commit to go to a military school and go through what they have to go through. Liberty is more relaxed, has amazing facilities and resources, and asks that you dont get arrested (unless you play football, then do whatever you want). Recruiting is an art form, it isnt hard because you're at Liberty, it is bad because you whiz off 8/12 players every year. Their high school coaches, AAU coaches, and friends are not going to send kids to Liberty when you have made them upset. Manson said before, talk to those guys. Name another player that we have recruited from Seth Curry's high school after Seth.... Dont worry, Ill wait. They have had top talent and a coach that still appreciated Liberty. Go Look up Anthony VanHook, he plays for a Liberty Alum. Manson has pointed out that Alcegaire is killing at the school he is at. Im basing this off what Manson said, but it looks to me like Liberty could really use Wes. All of these "Thugs" that we have had in the past would probably be a great point of reference for Liberty in their home state too, but no one over there wants help. No one over there wants anyone to help them out and THAT is a pride issue. You don't think that Jason Allison would use that connection to recruit Vanhook? Go look at who is recruiting him. Stop making excuses for people that aren't doing their job that make WAY MORE money than you do. Its gross. You're slobbering on yourself. If MBB/athletics was responsible, they would use FF and FlamesNation to their benefit because everyone Google's everything... but they dont. Make them take responsibility for SOMETHING. Don't say they run a clean program, because that is what they are supposed to do. Don't say they dont recruit thugs, because there have been players on the roster the last 3-4 years that would make you cringe, but they are white so no one is afraid of them.

The reason I sat on this message board for so long as someone who reads posts and not someone who writes them are because of these kinds of conversations.

I agree about the personal attacks. I mean SCAR is a straight up hood from Compton but the other guys? No way I'd put them in that category. I'm not saying we haven't had thugs in the MBB program but not those guys

As for your second point....... I guess you and ROOSTER won't be exchanging Christmas Cards

If they would have said "there were thugs on previous teams", I would have agreed because there are no specifics there and they very well could know something that I dont. I didnt really know most of them, but I did know those 3.

Honestly, as far as what Rooster says, I have 0 problem with it. He is entitled to his opinion the same way anyone else is. He has a different point of view from anyone else. The same way you do, and the same why I do. So if that is what he sees, then I cant expect him to change what he believes based on what someone else sees/says. Props to him for swimming against the current in some situations based on what he believes. That's all that we have...

[Purple Haize]

Yes but my way of looking at things are the CORRECT WAY of looking at things!

[TheGovernor]

Yes but my way of looking at things are the CORRECT WAY of looking at things!

Ill bow out of this one so I dont lose my favor with

[SuperJon]

Again, let me make sure this is said as clearly as possible: I don't think anything negative of the guys I originally mentioned. I brought them up solely to mention how others at Liberty - who didn't know them - labeled them. That's the culture you're bringing kids into. It takes a special person - like Rell, Anthony, and Larry of those teams, like Scar on his teams - to be able to handle that judgment and still thrive. You have to be mentally strong.

If you ask anyone who has been involved with students over the past five years, you will quickly learn that the capability to be mentally tough is at an all-time low. There was a drop off in quality of character overall about 2-3 years ago.

We can get kids here who are great ball players. It may not be, and likely won't be, in a traditional system, but the examples dropped by The Govenor are examples of having success despite your culture. It just takes the ability to adapt as the world around you changes. For as much as I love Dale as a person, he's a "trust the system/process" guy and not an adapter. I think he could've had success as a head coach 15-20 years ago but the world has changed significantly recently and he's not adapted to it.

[Chris Lang]

Thanks for that post, Old. Couldn't remember the exact timeline off the top of my head.

[TheGovernor]

Again, let me make sure this is said as clearly as possible: I don't think anything negative of the guys I originally mentioned. I brought them up solely to mention how others at Liberty - who didn't know them - labeled them. That's the culture you're bringing kids into. It takes a special person - like Rell, Anthony, and Larry of those teams, like Scar on his teams - to be able to handle that judgment and still thrive. You have to be mentally strong.

If you ask anyone who has been involved with students over the past five years, you will quickly learn that the capability to be mentally tough is at an all-time low. There was a drop off in quality of character overall about 2-3 years ago.

We can get kids here who are great ball players. It may not be, and likely won't be, in a traditional system, but the examples dropped by The Govenor are examples of having success despite your culture. It just takes the ability to adapt as the world around you changes. For as much as I love Dale as a person, he's a "trust the system/process" guy and not an adapter. I think he could've had success as a head coach 15-20 years ago but the world has changed significantly recently and he's not adapted to it.

Sounds like our coach should have developed a system that tells players that importance of mental toughness instead of hiding their ability to defend in a 3-2 matchup zone. Could have taught them some mental toughness by establishing roles.... I can do this all day. You can recruit mentally tough players, but college coaches need to take that to another level. Hey Scar, How mentally tough were you when you got to Liberty? How much did your mental toughness improve by playing at Liberty? How much was it addressed based on the principles of what you were doing every day in practice?

All those poor guys at Duke.... bet the student body thinks they are thugs. Scary.

Also, I do want to address your point about social media and the basketball players not being able to hide. At Kentucky, sure. At Liberty, that doesnt work. you get maybe 250 people that come to a game, 100-200 are at every game. No one knows who any of these guys are out in public. Unless your 6'11" with a Liberty Basketball shirt on, no one knows who they are, and if they do have that shirt on, no one will know their name. More people know who Dez Rice is in public than they do David Andoh. Of course, this is opinion, so I wont fault someone for theirs.

[SuperJon]

Sounds like our coach should have developed a system that tells players that importance of mental toughness instead of hiding their ability to defend in a 3-2 matchup zone. Could have taught them some mental toughness by establishing roles.... I can do this all day. You can recruit mentally tough players, but college coaches need to take that to another level. Hey Scar, How mentally tough were you when you got to Liberty? How much did your mental toughness improve by playing at Liberty? How much was it addressed based on the principles of what you were doing every day in practice?

You're right that part of it is on the coaches to develop players and build that toughness. That's one thing we haven't seen over the past six years.

With that said, I'd bet Scar had to work for everything before he got to Liberty. He didn't have it handed to him, able to change AAU teams if a coach didn't make him feel good enough. There's a toughness you build when you have to work for things and aren't coddled that many of today's basketball players don't have.

Our staff has definitely had deficiencies in recruiting during their tenure. As time has gone on, the talent level has gone down. At the same time, we do have to take into account the white, conservative nature of Liberty. It makes it challenging (not impossible, challenging) to recruit to Liberty. For us to be successful, we would need a guy like Jason Allison who not only understands the culture, but is also flexible enough to adapt and leverage it to find the guys we need.

[Rooster Cogburn]

But can Jason Alison be a head coach? Can he lead a team as the head guy. Can he mesh another coach's players in with his? Will he be good at discipline? Can he bring in those guys and keep them here? Can he deal with the difficult times? Can he manage a program? Can he foster spiritual growth as Gill and yes Layer do?

I don't know the answers.

[SuperJon]

I didn't say that Jason needs to be our head guy. I don't know if he's ready or not. Even if he's not, you need someone like him as an assistant on the staff at Liberty. The most successful teams at Liberty have had Liberty alums somewhere on the staff.

[Purple Haize]

But can Jason Alison be a head coach? Can he lead a team as the head guy. Can he mesh another coach's players in with his? Will he be good at discipline? Can he bring in those guys and keep them here? Can he deal with the difficult times? Can he manage a program? Can he foster spiritual growth as Gill and yes Layer do?

I don't know the answers.

Can Allison be a head coach? Yes
Can he mesh another coaches players with his? After a year or 2 it won't matter
Will he be good at discipline ? He's a Liberty guy. He understands what expectations are.
Can he keep guys he brings in? Good question, but recent trends show the current staff can't either
Can he deal with difficult times? I'm sure he is working the Program and attending meetings
Can he manage a program? That is a question any assistant can only answer by being given the opportunity to run one
Can he foster spiritual growth? Again, Liberty guy.

[jcmanson]

Layer could have hired Allison as our assistant a couple years ago. He didn't.

[Purple Haize]

Layer could have hired Allison as our assistant a couple years ago. He didn't.

DL has never appeared too thrilled to be involved with any of the former players let alone open to having them on staff

[jcmanson]

Layer could have hired Allison as our assistant a couple years ago. He didn't.

DL has never appeared too thrilled to be involved with any of the former players let alone open to having them on staff

One of his biggest failures

[Rooster Cogburn]

Layer could have hired Allison as our assistant a couple years ago. He didn't.

DL has never appeared too thrilled to be involved with any of the former players let alone open to having them on staff

One of his biggest failures

Please fill us all in with the inside info. What players has Layer shut out? I'm unaware.

[Rooster Cogburn]

And let's go FLAMES!

[Rooster Cogburn]

Physical game with runs on both sides right now. 20-18 Longwood, just under 8 min lest 1st half.

[Cider Jim]

Longwood on a 10-0 run.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Longwood went on a 12-0 run and now it's 28-20 LWD.

Been Longwood run, Liberty run, Longwood run.

[Rooster Cogburn]

30-22 LWD 3:40 left. 10 TOs for LU. 14-0 Points off TOs

[Rooster Cogburn]

This Johnson kid for LWD sounds like a gem of a human being by Alan telling his story. wow.

[Cider Jim]

Longwood up by 11 at the half, 41-30.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Wouldn't surprise me if Longwood wins in a blowout. If Liberty can't score against the Lancers they won't score against anyone they play - Longwood has the nation's 330rd ranked defense according to Pomeroy.

[krh44]

Down by 23...........