[TIMSCAR20]

I do see what you are saying SJ about the double standard though and the exposure of hoopers to the public vs football and baseball.

[SuperJon]

Those late Dunton teams (Blair, Rell, Anthony, etc) got such a reputation for being "thugs" or "not Liberty kids" when they were doing the exact same things that football and baseball players were doing. People just recognized their faces and not just their jersey number.

WOW those 3 guys were all great kids in my opinion. 2 of the 3 had kids out of wedlock but that is the world we live in. I had teammates and I coached players that had the same situation. It is an age old situation at Liberty and all over the country. Not a reason to label a kid a thug or not a Liberty kid in my humble opinion. Maybe the Judgmental culture at Liberty is a turn off for recruits as well? I guess it can work both ways. I would love to see Blair, Smitty and Porter in a Liberty uniform today. I don't think they misrepresented Liberty at all again in my humble opinion.

I'm not disagreeing with most of what you said at all. That's what I'm talking about when I mention culture. It's changing, but at its core, Liberty is still a conservative Christian college. If you don't fit the mold of what people think you should look/act like, you get labeled.

And in 2015, labels stick more because everyone has a voice and a platform thanks to social media.

I think the culture of our school turns off many recruits and, after being burned by said recruits, the coaches start looking other places (Europe) and for hidden gems.

[Rooster Cogburn]

So, thus the term recruiting problem.

[TIMSCAR20]

So, thus the term recruiting problem.

I see it as a small hurdle though not an immovable object. So many schools has their various hurdles to overcome. Do you guys think Barclay Radebaugh doesn't have hurdles at Charleston Southern? Jason Gee at Longwood? Those guys would KILL for the resources and the "recruiting hurdles" at Liberty. Ask Jason Allison if he had recruiting hurdles at VMI. Do you guys think VMI had any talent over the past 8 years?

[ATrain]

So, thus the term recruiting problem.

Well, its also like Scar said, IF the coaching staff would reach out to former players, they could steer great talent to Liberty that would also "fit" the culture. Just an example, but men's tennis has done that and we've gotten excellent players as a result.

Burning bridges with former players though, will make it that much more difficult.

[SuperJon]

It's definitely just a hurdle. It becomes an immovable object when you're determined to play traditional systems with traditional positions. The guys who have success at non-traditional schools do it with non-traditional methods. Get me the 12 best basketball players who can fit our culture and we can have success.

[lynchburgwildcats]

You don't need 12 good basketball players to play good basketball.

[Purple Haize]

So, thus the term recruiting problem.

Well, its also like Scar said, IF the coaching staff would reach out to former players, they could steer great talent to Liberty that would also "fit" the culture. Just an example, but men's tennis has done that and we've gotten excellent players as a result.

Burning bridges with former players though, will make it that much more difficult.

Boom goes the dynamite.
When a former player who happens to be a closet Kool aid drinker sours on the program what do you think everyone else does? The situation where I went to College was similar. We had a coach recruiting Colorado, California and New Jersey and NEVER reached out to any former players who were teachers and coaches and could influence players within a 2 hour radius. And there are ALOT of good players around that chicago 2 hour radius. Take it National here. I know for a fact that SCAR is underselling the influence former players have high caliber recruits in different States. Yet, no one reaches out to them. I won't put all the blame on the MBB staff because trying to get a list of addresses for Alumni from higher up is not the easiest, but about 85% of it is their fault.

I would also add Dale Gibson to the list of coaches who could bring in talent to a school with next to nothing in resources and a much more stringent culture. So to ROOSTERs point it IS a recruiting problem because our current staff CANT recruit.

[thepostman]

Anybody who met Larry Blair and still came away thinking he was a thug are complete idiots. Liberty kids talk about the football team all the time too. Or at least they did when I was there. There will always be that element at a school like liberty. It's a terrible excuse for not being able to recruit good basketball talent.

[jcmanson]

I love this Scar! Thanks for the points you have made.

[olldflame]

Agree totally with the culture thing at LU -

Superjon great comments.... case in point Allen Iverson you cant hide the rows and tattoos, but so many NFL guys had the same look.

I disagree with the McKAy comments -- who did he sign beside Curry... got lucky with him

Sanders, but Eaker was already on him before McKay took over.

Jon, to your point, I remember some in the athletic department were furious that I had written a story about Pat Calvary referencing the fact that he had a child. He wanted to talk about it, so who was I to censor that because it didn't fit the Liberty way? That's not my responsibility. But I caught some crap about it, which was ridiculous.

It is true that Eaker had a prior relationship with the Sanders family going back to before he came to Liberty, and he tried to recruit Jesse to play for RD. He didn't land him however. He was committed to play at Rice for Willis Wilson. It was only after Wilson was fired that Jesse decommitted and ultimately signed with us, making the choice just before the Fall signing period in 07. McKay had been coach for 8 months by then, and both Jesse and his dad said they chose LU because of Ritchie. They felt he would be the same type of mentor for Jesse as Wilson would have been.

Jeff Meyer

[SuperJon]

Anybody who met Larry Blair and still came away thinking he was a thug are complete idiots. Liberty kids talk about the football team all the time too. Or at least they did when I was there. There will always be that element at a school like liberty. It's a terrible excuse for not being able to recruit good basketball talent.

The difference in the sports is the exposure. Football players can hide in the shear numbers. Basketball players can't. Many kids don't want that type of pressure off the court. They just want to play ball.

Like we said earlier, that's just a small hurdle though. It makes it harder to get the traditional basketball roster. There are enough kids out there who would be okay with our culture to fill a team, but it may not always fit as five guards, four forwards, and three bigs.

[Purple Haize]

Agree totally with the culture thing at LU -

Superjon great comments.... case in point Allen Iverson you cant hide the rows and tattoos, but so many NFL guys had the same look.

I disagree with the McKAy comments -- who did he sign beside Curry... got lucky with him

Sanders, but Eaker was already on him before McKay took over.

Jon, to your point, I remember some in the athletic department were furious that I had written a story about Pat Calvary referencing the fact that he had a child. He wanted to talk about it, so who was I to censor that because it didn't fit the Liberty way? That's not my responsibility. But I caught some crap about it, which was ridiculous.

It is true that Eaker had a prior relationship with the Sanders family going back to before he came to Liberty, and he tried to recruit Jesse to play for RD. He didn't land him however. He was committed to play at Rice for Willis Wilson. It was only after Wilson was fired that Jesse decommitted and ultimately signed with us, making the choice just before the Fall signing period in 07. McKay had been coach for 8 months by then, and both Jesse and his dad said they chose LU because of Ritchie. They felt he would be the same type of mentor for Jesse as Wilson would have been.

Jeff Meyer

Love the self policing. It shows a maturity on the board

[Purple Haize]

Agree totally with the culture thing at LU -

Superjon great comments.... case in point Allen Iverson you cant hide the rows and tattoos, but so many NFL guys had the same look.

I disagree with the McKAy comments -- who did he sign beside Curry... got lucky with him

Sanders, but Eaker was already on him before McKay took over.

Jon, to your point, I remember some in the athletic department were furious that I had written a story about Pat Calvary referencing the fact that he had a child. He wanted to talk about it, so who was I to censor that because it didn't fit the Liberty way? That's not my responsibility. But I caught some crap about it, which was ridiculous.

Thou shalt not print anything that paints LU in any negative light - 1 Judea 4:13.

[olldflame]

So people allude to how difficult it is for LU to recruit basketball talent. What do they mean by that, exactly?

Typical basketball culture of 2015 doesn't fit Liberty culture. In other sports (namely football and baseball) you can hide behind helmets, hats, and not being known by what you look like. That allows you to move around campus and town more freely without everyone knowing who you are. In basketball, there is nothing blocking what you look like and you're fully exposed. Everyone knows what you look like and you can't hide.

Example from when I was in school:

It was a big deal that Anthony Smith got his girlfriend pregnant. No one realized that at the same time there for three football players who had recently done the same thing.

It's not a race thing. It's a culture thing.

For Liberty basketball to be successful in the current game, you're going to need a coach who will come in with a system that's different. It doesn't have to be the VMI run and gun, but you have to realize you're not going to get elite talent at the traditional five positions. For all his faults, this is something McKay got right. He went after the best basketball players he could get then built a system around them.

As far as McKay is concerned, based on the way things worked out on the court, I would agree with your theory. He started the 5 best players, which as it happened were all listed as guards on the official roster, and built the system around their talents, with a ton of 3 point shooting. This included returners Smitty and KO as well as Curry, Sanders and Floyd from that big freshman class.

If you look at the "magnificent 7" as a whole however, you see something different:

2 bigs: McMasters and Smith
2 swings: Floyd and Weaver
3 guards: Curry, Sanders and Stephene. One PG, one SG and one combo.

He actually did try to recruit all positions. It's just that the bigs he signed (including JVP the next Fall) either didn't develop or left.

[TIMSCAR20]

I love this Scar! Thanks for the points you have made.

Yeah man I just feel like the misconceptions being perpetuated about the program and particularly kids like Rell, Anthony and Blair who are so FAR from being thugs it isn't funny, needed to be addressed. I grew up in Philly and had a high top fade. I know for a fact suburban kids like SJ were afraid of me at 1st before they got to know me. I did grow up around some harsh, dare I say thuggish individuals. I know thugs when I see them. Those kids are NOT Thugs.

[jcmanson]

I completely agree with you scar

[Purple Haize]

I love this Scar! Thanks for the points you have made.

Yeah man I just feel like the misconceptions being perpetuated about the program and particularly kids like Rell, Anthony and Blair who are so FAR from being thugs it isn't funny, needed to be addressed. I grew up in Philly and had a high top fade. I know for a fact suburban kids like SJ were afraid of me at 1st before they got to know me. I did grow up around some harsh, dare I say thuggish individuals. I know thugs when I see them. Those kids are NOT Thugs.

Who knew you were such a Kid N Play fan?

[SuperJon]

He actually did try to recruit all positions.

But they weren't the traditional fits for those positions. That's what I've been trying to say but obviously missed that point. He didn't try to find a big, back to the basket guy. Carter was a 3 in the body of a 5.

[SuperJon]

Yeah man I just feel like the misconceptions being perpetuated about the program and particularly kids like Rell, Anthony and Blair who are so FAR from being thugs it isn't funny, needed to be addressed. I grew up in Philly and had a high top fade. I know for a fact suburban kids like SJ were afraid of me at 1st before they got to know me. I did grow up around some harsh, dare I say thuggish individuals. I know thugs when I see them. Those kids are NOT Thugs.

For the record, I know those three guys were good dudes. Me saying people labeled them the way they were wasn't me condoning the labels.

[TIMSCAR20]

It wasn't THAT high Purple. I didn't want to "scare" ALL the white people at Liberty

[Bigsouthking]

OldFlame --

I got news for you - the magnificent 7 sucked!!! at least 5 of them did... stop it with the Mckay recruitment worshipping...(His head coaching record has proven he's a facade over the years) He inherited a helluva team his first season at LU.

And i honestly believe without Smitty on that roster as (pre season BS player of year by the way) Curry doesn't do nearly as much as he did... Smitty took a lot of attention from the opposing defense.

[SuperJon]

I got news for you - the magnificent 7 sucked!!! at least 5 of them did... stop it with the Mckay recruitment worshipping...

I know this isn't directed at me, but my McKay example is more as a philosophy than pointing to results.

[Purple Haize]

It wasn't THAT high Purple. I didn't want to "scare" ALL the white people at Liberty

(Wonder how many people have Googled Kin N Play)

[olldflame]

There have been far too many good players in the history of Liberty basketball to say that it is too hard to recruit at Liberty. Plus Liberty is 10 times the school today that it was back then in so many categories and for that matter so is the city of Lynchburg in terms of commerce (restaurants, hotels, things to do). RD, JM, Dan Manley and even Mel Hankinson all brought in high level talent.

I'm sure Coach Manley giggles a little when people say how hard it is to recruit at Liberty. It isn't. Please stop perpetuating that false notion. I personally know 3 former Liberty players that have exposure, influence and access to 4 and 5 star recruits and would GLADLY steer them towards Liberty if Liberty had ANY interest in them.

I'm not sure where SJ is going with the whole cultural thing in terms of basketball players but if I am reading it right it sounds like he is saying Liberty needs some more inner city type kids (like me ) and less "nice suburban white guys" and it is not an image the current administration wants to be associated with. I don't want to put words in his mouth but that was what I got out of that post.

If the above is true, and they are worried about projecting a positive public image, I think that can be done. Not every inner city player or good basketball player is a thug or even buys into the hip-hop culture. I am around REALLY GOOD mid-major talent on a regular basis and I see them interact with teammates, walk talk etc off the court and I see a ton of "good fits" for Liberty at other schools.

I think it is tragic that Longwood, Charleston Southern and almost every other school in the Big South seems to have better players than Liberty across the board.

Great post SCAR. I knew DL was not big on reaching out to alum, but I didn't realize it was to that extent. I can't think of a single legit reason why a coach would take that stance.