[flamehunter]

Initial shot and one follow

Then you've got incredible offensive rebounders. Fire away........which again has nothing to do with TO's

Not to mention a pretty terrible shooting % if you miss all 30 of your initial shots.

[Purple Haize]

Initial shot and one follow

Then you've got incredible offensive rebounders. Fire away........which again has nothing to do with TO's

Not to mention a pretty terrible shooting % if you miss all 30 of your initial shots.

Even worse if you are missing the put backs.

[olldflame]

Initial shot and one follow

Then you've got incredible offensive rebounders. Fire away........which again has nothing to do with TO's

Not to mention a pretty terrible shooting % if you miss all 30 of your initial shots.

Turning the ball over on 40% of your possessions is pretty bad too.

[Purple Haize]

It's not good no. Ideally, you'd have 0 turnovers. But if you convert on the other 60% and your opponent doesn't turn those into points you can live with it

[TIMSCAR20]

This conversation has set Analytics back 30 years

[bluejacket]

This conversation has set Analytics back 30 years

[Chris Lang]

Most of the time on offense we have 3-4 guys beyond the arc. I am old school and don't understand this at all. Very boring, hard to watch for me. Hope we have a good baseball team.

That's really the standard offensive set these days - most programs are running a 4-out because they simply don't have the muscle to run anything else. However, Layer's offense kills me to watch and always has - it's nothing but ball screens for 20 seconds and then hope someone bails them out with a 3 or a quick score in the post. There is rarely anything going to the basket.

There was a tiny stretch in the middle of the second half where Moller and Theo Johnson both looked to score off the bounce, and they had some success. Not quite sure why they didn't continue to do that.

[TIMSCAR20]

Most of the time on offense we have 3-4 guys beyond the arc. I am old school and don't understand this at all. Very boring, hard to watch for me. Hope we have a good baseball team.

That's really the standard offensive set these days - most programs are running a 4-out because they simply don't have the muscle to run anything else. However, Layer's offense kills me to watch and always has - it's nothing but ball screens for 20 seconds and then hope someone bails them out with a 3 or a quick score in the post. There is rarely anything going to the basket.

There was a tiny stretch in the middle of the second half where Moller and Theo Johnson both looked to score off the bounce, and they had some success. Not quite sure why they didn't continue to do that.

Scoring has been a problem in the early part of the year for Liberty for the past 5 or 6 years. It seems getting to 60 is a struggle. Then once Big South starts the scoring average starts to creep into the high 60s and low 70s. The year of the Tourney Run, that team was getting to 80 with no problem thanks to the shooting of Davon Marshall and Cabe getting to the basket under control.

I think Moller and Gielo need to look to score more. If Gielo had Seth Curry's belief in himself he would be talked about in the same breath as Rowsey and John Brown.

[Purple Haize]

This conversation has set Analytics back 30 years

Sorry. I'm still trying to figure out how a missed shot is equal to a bad shot and how missing every shot is followed up by an offensive rebound that apparently is also missed

The larger picture is that is a team like UVA or Wisconsin has 15-20 TO's in a game it will kill them. Where as a team like Satan's Spawn in Lexington or even Louisville won't be as negative affected by that many TO's
OF had a good point in looking at it as a percentage of total possessions since just the raw number is meaningless

[TIMSCAR20]

This conversation has set Analytics back 30 years

Sorry. I'm still trying to figure out how a missed shot is equal to a bad shot and how missing every shot is followed up by an offensive rebound that apparently is also missed

The larger picture is that is a team like UVA or Wisconsin has 15-20 TO's in a game it will kill them. Where as a team like Satan's Spawn in Lexington or even Louisville won't be as negative affected by that many TO's
OF had a good point in looking at it as a percentage of total possessions since just the raw number is meaningless

Going for another 30?

[TIMSCAR20]

The premise of the Turnover theory was so flawed from the beginning Purple I can't believe you attempted to fix it for them with numbers. The two and exactly two shots theory confused me so much that I couldn't count to 10 without a calculator for about 15 minutes.

[Purple Haize]

The premise of the Turnover theory was so flawed from the beginning Purple I can't believe you attempted to fix it for them with numbers. The two and exactly two shots theory confused me so much that I couldn't count to 10 without a calculator for about 15 minutes.

Yes. But that's normal!

[BJWilliams]

haha...I've never been a big analytics fan personally so if I can make some heads explode along the way I'm fine with that

My point is if you turn the ball over a lot, you need to be able to offset that by scoring on a high percentage of your remaining possessions. If you have a problem with turnovers (as has been discussed ad nauseum with regard to our Lady Flames) AND you don't score a lot, that is not a very good recipe for a team

[Purple Haize]

haha...I've never been a big analytics fan personally so if I can make some heads explode along the way I'm fine with that

My point is if you turn the ball over a lot, you need to be able to offset that by scoring on a high percentage of your remaining possessions. If you have a problem with turnovers (as has been discussed ad nauseum with regard to our Lady Flames) AND you don't score a lot, that is not a very good recipe for a team

The basic premise is correct: Turnovers are bad.
The rest is based on a false assumption of every team having roughly the same number of possessions.
If you don't have a lot of turn overs AND don't score that will also be a problem.
Also, if you don't score a lot, say at least 1 more than your opponent, winning any game will be difficult.

Basically, there is no correlation between TO's and shoot percentage.

[TheGovernor]

haha...I've never been a big analytics fan personally so if I can make some heads explode along the way I'm fine with that

My point is if you turn the ball over a lot, you need to be able to offset that by scoring on a high percentage of your remaining possessions. If you have a problem with turnovers (as has been discussed ad nauseum with regard to our Lady Flames) AND you don't score a lot, that is not a very good recipe for a team

The basic premise is correct: Turnovers are bad.
The rest is based on a false assumption of every team having roughly the same number of possessions.
If you don't have a lot of turn overs AND don't score that will also be a problem.
Also, if you don't score a lot, say at least 1 more than your opponent, winning any game will be difficult.

Basically, there is no correlation between TO's and shoot percentage.

Also, the purpose of playing up-tempo is to create turnovers and get higher percentage shots. If you cannot play that way without turning the ball over yourself, you dont want to play that way at all. Purple is more than right here. Turnovers=Bad. More Possessions= Good. Assumptions=Dangerous. The only reason you should have more turnovers as an up-tempo team is because you have more possessions. If you average 10 turnovers per 50 possessions, you still arent aiming for 15 turnovers in 75 possessions, you aim for 9... and you surely cant live with the idea of more turnovers based on a two shot minimum on the offensive end.

...Going Back Into My Cave Now...

[Purple Haize]

haha...I've never been a big analytics fan personally so if I can make some heads explode along the way I'm fine with that

My point is if you turn the ball over a lot, you need to be able to offset that by scoring on a high percentage of your remaining possessions. If you have a problem with turnovers (as has been discussed ad nauseum with regard to our Lady Flames) AND you don't score a lot, that is not a very good recipe for a team

The basic premise is correct: Turnovers are bad.
The rest is based on a false assumption of every team having roughly the same number of possessions.
If you don't have a lot of turn overs AND don't score that will also be a problem.
Also, if you don't score a lot, say at least 1 more than your opponent, winning any game will be difficult.

Basically, there is no correlation between TO's and shoot percentage.

Also, the purpose of playing up-tempo is to create turnovers and get higher percentage shots. If you cannot play that way without turning the ball over yourself, you dont want to play that way at all. Purple is more than right here. Turnovers=Bad. More Possessions= Good. Assumptions=Dangerous. The only reason you should have more turnovers as an up-tempo team is because you have more possessions. If you average 10 turnovers per 50 possessions, you still arent aiming for 15 turnovers in 75 possessions, you aim for 9... and you surely cant live with the idea of more turnovers based on a two shot minimum on the offensive end.

...Going Back Into My Cave Now...

Haha. I bet it's a sweet cave!

[BJWilliams]

I will defer to you on that Purple and Governor...we do agree that turovers=bad though

[TIMSCAR20]

Well this conversation has generated more traffic than the actual game did. Are you guys still all in football mode? Is anyone watching LFSN Hoops?

[BJWilliams]

I tune in on the phone when I can...I was at work during the game itself. hoping to bring the fam up for a game at some point

[TheGovernor]

Well this conversation has generated more traffic than the actual game did. Are you guys still all in football mode? Is anyone watching LFSN Hoops?

Only Watch Hoops. Sadly, The Quality of the Production has diminished significantly since Scar left. And No, Im not being sarcastic because you asked, its terrible. I will occasionally mute the game for a few minutes at a time just to be able to watch the entire game without giving up. The value in a commentator that knows the game is apparently undervalued at LFSN, but since the games arent available anywhere else to watch, the fans are the ones that have to pay and the numbers look the same to them. Very Sad. Constant mistakes, no knowledge of the game, etc. The play-by-play guy isn't bad, used to listen to him on the radio, but looks like LFSN is finding out that it can be difficult for even those with talent when the incorrect decisions are made.

[BJWilliams]

Nick is a very talented PbP guy. I think its been mentioned a few times he could go national in baseball. I don't know a ton about the background of his No. 2 so I can't comment on him much, but Nick is very solid on the mic for basketball as well

[JakeP50]

LFSN not having color commentators that know the game? I haven't watched a basketball broadcast yet this season so I can't comment on Clement. But the color guys I have heard and worked with definitely know their stuff, especially hockey. LFSN also brought on one of the student managers from the field hockey team to do color for their games to make sure they had a color commentator who knew the game.

[TheGovernor]

LFSN not having color commentators that know the game? I haven't watched a basketball broadcast yet this season so I can't comment on Clement. But the color guys I have heard and worked with definitely know their stuff, especially hockey. LFSN also brought on one of the student managers from the field hockey team to do color for their games to make sure they had a color commentator who knew the game.

the Question was about hoops. Havent Watched the others to know. Sorry for not clarifying. Not saying it about any other sport than MBB.

[TIMSCAR20]

I just wanted to know where everyone is. The game threads are so thin these days. I figured it will pick up when football finishes up.

[Purple Haize]

I just wanted to know where everyone is. The game threads are so thin these days. I figured it will pick up when football finishes up.

I Tupac'd this game and saw a score and Teddy V
I wasn't lying when I said SCAR was the only reason to watch a 20 loss team. I love NP but the product on the floor is bad. I might watch if there is a big game but.....