[R i]

Im thinking its medication for some of you, after a terrible loss, in a game we really wanted to win, to come on flamefans and play armchair AD. Firing coaches all the time. SJ you are currently calling for all three major sports coaches to be fired. If you were AD, what coach in the country would want to come to LU ?

Btw, you were questioning Rocco and had him out the door the season before he left as well. (Mainly over the Asa situation, and Danny's inability to win the big games)

It is a message board, so we can table the firing talk as such, but , What would our athletic program look like if we fired everyone you called for over the past 3 years ?

[flameshaw]

I liked Rocco when he was at LU, but after he left for Richmond, I don't care for him at all. If Spiders were to go 0-11 I'd be happy. Never liked Richmond before he went there, like them less now. It would be different if he had gone to a D1 big boy school, but he laterally transferred to another FCS school. granted the CAA is bigger than BSC, but it's still FCS,

Not sure he had another choice.

[From the class of 09]

I think he's tired of losing and doesn't like the step back we've taken.

Have we taken a step back? To me we seem to be in the exact spot we were when Rocco left.

If you're not getting better, you're getting worse. Coastal has passed us, and that alone means we've taken a step back.

So we need to be ranked 3rd in the country to be progressing?

[From the class of 09]

Im thinking its medication for some of you, after a terrible loss, in a game we really wanted to win, to come on flamefans and play armchair AD. Firing coaches all the time. SJ you are currently calling for all three major sports coaches to be fired. If you were AD, what coach in the country would want to come to LU ?

Btw, you were questioning Rocco and had him out the door the season before he left as well. (Mainly over the Asa situation, and Danny's inability to win the big games)

It is a message board, so we can table the firing talk as such, but , What would our athletic program look like if we fired everyone you called for over the past 3 years ?

+1

Especially in football you need time to get your guys in and honestly it just takes longer for football because you need so many more guys. Basketball can get one or two big recruits who change the team game one year one. Football needs talent and time for most of that talent to develop.

It's not like Liberty is some dream job. IMO its really hard to justify firing someone who consistently wins their conference (even if its the crappy shared title bs).

[SuperJon]

Im thinking its medication for some of you, after a terrible loss, in a game we really wanted to win, to come on flamefans and play armchair AD. Firing coaches all the time. SJ you are currently calling for all three major sports coaches to be fired. If you were AD, what coach in the country would want to come to LU ?

Btw, you were questioning Rocco and had him out the door the season before he left as well. (Mainly over the Asa situation, and Danny's inability to win the big games)

It is a message board, so we can table the firing talk as such, but , What would our athletic program look like if we fired everyone you called for over the past 3 years ?

It's amazing how you can lump opinions over a four year span and not look at how things change.

I wanted Toman gone a couple of years ago because he was constantly underperforming and he choked a player in a dugout during a game. He began to change his coaching style and started performing at the level we desire. I'm still not a huge fan of him as a coach, but we would be dumb to get rid of him. If he left on his own for a bigger job, I wouldn't be sad.

I also don't want Layer fired. I'm as frustrated as anyone with basketball, but I think he's getting things turned around. I hope with all that I have in me he gets it turned around because he's the prototype of who we want as a coach. Unfortunately, the results just have to be there. Basketball being where basketball is at is the #1 reason I'm confident Gill gets another year.

I'm also not calling for Gill to be fired this year. I don't think that can, nor will, happen. I just don't think he's our guy moving forward. The move will likely happen after next season.

Rocco needed to go because he had too much power. That was our fault as much as it was his. That situation was handled the right way with him given the chance to leave before things came to that.

It's possible to see the writing on the wall before there's a chance to fix it. That's where we are at as a football program now.

[SuperJon]

Especially in football you need time to get your guys in and honestly it just takes longer for football because you need so many more guys. Basketball can get one or two big recruits who change the team game one year one. Football needs talent and time for most of that talent to develop.

Coastal was much worse than us when they changed coaches at the exact same time. They brought in a proven leader who had a system and knew how to get the most of his players. In his second year he went deep into the playoffs and is top 5 in the country right now in his third year.

Year three is the year you're supposed to see progress. We aren't seeing it.

[R i]

"proven leader who had a system, and knew how to get the most out of his players" ?

The brought in that guy ? or he turned out to be that guy ? Im not nit picking, I just think Coastal had a lucky strike.

[R i]

It's amazing how you can lump opinions over a four year span and not look at how things change.

[/quote]


Over time things change, so lets not react so harshly after we lose to Richmond and Rocco on homecoming for your one home game.


The goal is still obtainable.

[SuperJon]

So because I'm only able to come to one game, my opinion is less valid than those who are able to come to more? Somehow I'm less of a fan because I watch games from five hours away? What type of nonsense is that?

[From the class of 09]

Especially in football you need time to get your guys in and honestly it just takes longer for football because you need so many more guys. Basketball can get one or two big recruits who change the team game one year one. Football needs talent and time for most of that talent to develop.

Coastal was much worse than us when they changed coaches at the exact same time. They brought in a proven leader who had a system and knew how to get the most of his players. In his second year he went deep into the playoffs and is top 5 in the country right now in his third year.

Year three is the year you're supposed to see progress. We aren't seeing it.

Like I said I'm just glad we have JB making these calls...it would be nice to be better then Coastal but I don't think firing a coach every 3-4 years until we find one who can make us a top 5 program in 3 years is really the quickest way to that mountain top. I think giving Gill some time to develop his team out and improve will be quicker way to the top. Unfortunately neither will get us there this year.

[TDDance234]

So we need to be ranked 3rd in the country to be progressing?

I'd say that would certainly be a step in the right direction. Don't you?

[Purple Haize]

So because I'm only able to come to one game, my opinion is less valid than those who are able to come to more? Somehow I'm less of a fan because I watch games from five hours away? What type of nonsense is that?

I disagree with you about whether or not Gill is The Man. But I don't think your opinion is less valid than anyone else's.
I wonder why you don't give Gill the same benefit of doubt that you give Layer? Gill has done a much better job comparatively. Even saying he has 'maintained' us is better than MBB and apparently what we look for in other sports on Campus.
I like Gill for the same reason you like Layer and want him to succeed

Of course I could be misreading you and then I'd feel stupid!

[bluejacket]

Coastal was much worse than us when they changed coaches at the exact same time. They brought in a proven leader who had a system and knew how to get the most of his players. In his second year he went deep into the playoffs and is top 5 in the country right now in his third year.

Year three is the year you're supposed to see progress. We aren't seeing it.

Coastal's improvement is compounded by our own slide. Are they a true top 5 team? No. But quite frankly, they have blown by us on the football field. Charleston Southern is rapidly closing the gap and it could be argued that they have passed us since Chadwell has been there. Gardner-Webb and Monmouth are the next step; if we play bad, either one of them can beat us. Presbyterian is getting better, but not nearly the immediate threat that the others are. The fact that any of the last four are catching us is disturbing to everyone.

[jcmanson]

Charleston Southern is rapidly closing the gap and it could be argued that they have passed us in the time since Chadwell has been there.

Stop

[SuperJon]

So because I'm only able to come to one game, my opinion is less valid than those who are able to come to more? Somehow I'm less of a fan because I watch games from five hours away? What type of nonsense is that?

I disagree with you about whether or not Gill is The Man. But I don't think your opinion is less valid than anyone else's.
I wonder why you don't give Gill the same benefit of doubt that you give Layer? Gill has done a much better job comparatively. Even saying he has 'maintained' us is better than MBB and apparently what we look for in other sports on Campus.
I like Gill for the same reason you like Layer and want him to succeed

Of course I could be misreading you and then I'd feel stupid!

Not misreading at all. And it's a fair question that I actually had to think through before publicly saying I would be in support of a new football coach.

I think it comes back to the way the programs are run. Dale hasn't gotten the results we need which is unfortunate, but I much prefer the style of program he runs to the unorganized nature of Gill.

I have nothing against Turner Gill as a man. I think he is a fantastic Christian leader and our school is better off for having a relationship with him. If he got here before Rocco, I'm sure I would've loved what he is doing. However, I'm ready to take the next step. I'm tired of co-championships and missed playoff births. If he can pull a Toman and change his leadership and coaching style to get us to that step then I'm all for it, but I've seen nothing to show that he will do that.

What we need more than anything is an Assistant Head Coach - a guy that can handle the day-to-day operations of the team and allow Gill to fly higher, recruit, and motivate. If we get that, a real offensive system (maybe Stamn can be that guy - I don't know how much input he truly has), and special teams that are at least decent, then we may be onto something.

Regardless of if it's Gill being the change, it's obvious a change of some sort needs to be made.

[bluejacket]

SJ, those are all fair points.

[bluejacket]

Charleston Southern is rapidly closing the gap and it could be argued that they have passed us in the time since Chadwell has been there.

Stop

What part of that is wrong? I have never argued that they are better than us or even that they will beat us this season. Considering where they were under Jay Mills (who was a good football coach but never got support), they are rapidly closing the gap with us. You can be darn certain that their coaches are making the argument that they have passed us when they go recruiting, no matter how debatable their position is. It is not good that that is happening.

[jcmanson]

They've come nowhere close to passing us. I'm sorry, but racking up wins over teams like Point, Newberry, Shorter, North Greenville, and Campbell won't prove anything.

56-14

[Purple Haize]

So because I'm only able to come to one game, my opinion is less valid than those who are able to come to more? Somehow I'm less of a fan because I watch games from five hours away? What type of nonsense is that?

I disagree with you about whether or not Gill is The Man. But I don't think your opinion is less valid than anyone else's.
I wonder why you don't give Gill the same benefit of doubt that you give Layer? Gill has done a much better job comparatively. Even saying he has 'maintained' us is better than MBB and apparently what we look for in other sports on Campus.
I like Gill for the same reason you like Layer and want him to succeed

Of course I could be misreading you and then I'd feel stupid!

Not misreading at all. And it's a fair question that I actually had to think through before publicly saying I would be in support of a new football coach.

I think it comes back to the way the programs are run. Dale hasn't gotten the results we need which is unfortunate, but I much prefer the style of program he runs to the unorganized nature of Gill.

I have nothing against Turner Gill as a man. I think he is a fantastic Christian leader and our school is better off for having a relationship with him. If he got here before Rocco, I'm sure I would've loved what he is doing. However, I'm ready to take the next step. I'm tired of co-championships and missed playoff births. If he can pull a Toman and change his leadership and coaching style to get us to that step then I'm all for it, but I've seen nothing to show that he will do that.

What we need more than anything is an Assistant Head Coach - a guy that can handle the day-to-day operations of the team and allow Gill to fly higher, recruit, and motivate. If we get that, a real offensive system (maybe Stamn can be that guiy - I don't know how much input he truly has), and special teams that are at least decent, then we may be onto something.

Regardless of if it's Gill being the change, it's obvious a change of some sort needs to be made.

I think I mentioned that somewhere else. It's what UVA did with London

[bluejacket]

I agree. Beating bad teams gives Charleston Southern nothing. But beating The Citadel twice, Charlotte twice, App. State, and Coastal gives them the ammunition that they need.

[jcmanson]

I agree. Beating bad teams gives Charleston Southern nothing. But beating The Citadel twice, Charlotte twice, App. State, and Coastal gives them the ammunition that they need.

And we are left with 56-14

[jcmanson]

Here's a quote from Miami Heat head coach Erik Spoelstra I read today that I think ties into this conversation on Gill:

“It is absolutely vital. It is absolutely critical in our microwave society now, and it is seeping into pro sports more than ever. We always talk about how there is constant change and turnover in pro sports, well now it is on steroids. Your windows to put together great teams are shorter, your windows to even have a familiar group of guys to build a culture is shorter. And if you don’t have that consistency in your organization, you’re leaving it to random chance. That’s the toughest thing to do, to build consistency and continuity, and it starts with your ownership and your management and then everything just falls into line from there. So, the one thing you can count on with the Heat is stability. That doesn’t guarantee you anything, but at least it gives you a head start.”

[BJWilliams]

Ehh...I'm not sure I put a ton of stock in those wins either...the citadel is down, App State is rapidly approaching dumpster fire level as far as on the field is concerned and Charlotte is an FBS transitional that is probably a year or two away once they hit conference USA.

Monmouth could be another Stony Brook or they could fall back...their schedule this year really hasn't shown much. Gardner Webb has been very feast or famine so I don't see them as a threat either, and PC...they got real lucky with their d last week so I dont seem worried about them either

[bluejacket]

I agree. Beating bad teams gives Charleston Southern nothing. But beating The Citadel twice, Charlotte twice, App. State, and Coastal gives them the ammunition that they need.

And we are left with 56-14

Awesome, its great that we can fall back on that. But this is a legitimate argument on the recruiting trail and not a good sign for us.

[bluejacket]

Ehh...I'm not sure I put a ton of stock in those wins either...the citadel is down, App State is rapidly approaching dumpster fire level as far as on the field is concerned and Charlotte is an FBS transitional that is probably a year or two away once they hit conference USA.

There is a reason why they are #2 in the Flames Nation Big South power rankings. Although they have a lot of bad victories, they have beaten better teams than we have this season and last season. Plus they are undefeated.