[VAGolf]

The Gill thing is a totally different debate and I wasn't the one to bring it up, so I'm not going to jump in there.

However, the thing you can't wrap your head around is that we're not being critical because of the result. We're being critical because of the level of play, the mistakes we made, and the lack of improvement in critical areas.

You said, "Hold this offensive coaching staff (including TG) responsible for their inability to adapt and raise the unit's play. It's year three, improve or we can find someone else."

You might want to check your reading comprehension. I never said that.

There's not really a need for personal insults. I merely confused your post with bluejacket's. My bad.

[VAGolf]

We are in that mode. Every DI program is in that mode. There is way too much $ and resources tied up in the sport nowadays to go years for the sake of "Organizational stability". the kids are only here for 4-5 yrs... onwards and upwards.

if you aint goin forwards you're goin backwards.

being private doesnt limit us. In fact- our budget (read: open checkbook) and ability to make decisions overnight probably helps us. It also bites us in the arse from time to time but thats another story.

This is what is wrong with LU's FB aspirations, and maybe in general. We think we can buy something without building something. Trying to buy athletic success rarely works. You any buy something pre-assembled. If we took a step back, let a coach build a PROGRAM, over the course of a few (5-8) years we would be much better served. If we feel we have the right person, which I think we do. We want to move up so badly we are attempting to do so with out the proper foundation. I think there is a Sunday School song and Bible reference that talks about houses on sand and/or rock. But I digress.
If we think TG is the guy to get it done, leave him be and let him do it. Wait until year 5 before we warm up his seat or whisper of his being canned. I know it's not 'The Liberty Way' but that way really hasn't been working.

+1 to all of this, but that part in bold is amazing.

[SuperJon]

We want to move up so badly we are attempting to do so with out the proper foundation.

So what did Rocco do if he didn't build the foundation?

Shouldn't we be expecting as good or better than he did since we're building on what he already built?

[bluejacket]

You're confusing excuses with realistic standards. No one expects our basketball team to contend for the final four, why? Because we're a crappy team in the Big South that doesn't have the access that Kentucky and Duke has. Is that really an excuse? Or can we agree that our basketball team probably isn't ever going to contend at that level?

Obviously, that's a bit of a drastic comparison but my point is that we have standards. Not everything is an excuse.

And the standards for a top 25 FCS team were not met on Saturday. Why do you think that TG, the coaching staff, and the players were upset with how we played? Some of the fundamental problems that have caused us to fall short in the past resurfaced against UNC and all of them know that it cost us an opportunity to win the game and ended with us getting blown out. Competing and winning is the reason why we scheduled them in the first place. We're not Presbyterian.

[bluejacket]

We want to move up so badly we are attempting to do so with out the proper foundation.

So what did Rocco do if he didn't build the foundation?

Shouldn't we be expecting as good or better than he did since we're building on what he already built?

Exactly. We had five years of foundation already built in. This is not a situation where we are trying to go from 1-10 to winning the FCS national championship.

[VAGolf]

You're confusing excuses with realistic standards. No one expects our basketball team to contend for the final four, why? Because we're a crappy team in the Big South that doesn't have the access that Kentucky and Duke has. Is that really an excuse? Or can we agree that our basketball team probably isn't ever going to contend at that level?

Obviously, that's a bit of a drastic comparison but my point is that we have standards. Not everything is an excuse.

And the standards for a top 25 FCS team were not met on Saturday. Why do you think that TG, the coaching staff, and the players were upset with how we played? Some of the fundamental problems that have caused us to fall short in the past resurfaced against UNC and all of them know that it cost us an opportunity to win the game and ended with us getting blown out. Competing and winning is the reason why we scheduled them in the first place. We're not Presbyterian.

It's one thing to be upset about how we played, it's an entirely different thing to start putting a coach on the "hot seat," after one game against a really good FBS team.

[bluejacket]

I said, "Hold this offensive coaching staff (including TG) responsible for their inability to adapt and raise the unit's play. It's year three, improve or we can find someone else." No one has called for the head coach to be fired right no, put him on the hot seat, or said that he will be fired. But he is still partially responsible for the offenses poor play. #1: because he is the head coach. #2: because he is offensive minded and is more hands on in that aspect of the team.

[SuperJon]

The coach was on the hot seat with most of the fan base and some in the administration before the season started.

[VAGolf]

I said, "Hold this offensive coaching staff (including TG) responsible for their inability to adapt and raise the unit's play. It's year three, improve or we can find someone else." No one has called for the head coach to be fired right no, put him on the hot seat, or said that he will be fired. But he is still partially responsible for the offenses poor play. #1: because he is the head coach. #2: because he is offensive minded and is more hands on in that aspect of the team.

Look in bold. That is putting him on the hot seat.

[bluejacket]

The coach was on the hot seat with most of the fan base and some in the administration before the season started.

I don't know about most of the fan base, but there are definitely some in the administration.

[bluejacket]

I said, "Hold this offensive coaching staff (including TG) responsible for their inability to adapt and raise the unit's play. It's year three, improve or we can find someone else." No one has called for the head coach to be fired right no, put him on the hot seat, or said that he will be fired. But he is still partially responsible for the offenses poor play. #1: because he is the head coach. #2: because he is offensive minded and is more hands on in that aspect of the team.

Look in bold. That is putting him on the hot seat.

No, it isn't. Those are reasonable expectations, especially for our program. And I am sure that they have the same expectations for improvement on the offensive side.

[PAmedic]

i'm gonna stop banging my head against the wall here but i'll say this

I will over simplify things and say there are 2 mindsets here:

1. Christians are nice and don't fire other Christians. Just do your best. Winning isn't everything "win or lose..."

2. win or get out. it's a business. punch 'em in the mouth then stand over them and tell them God loves them. failure to move ahead = falling behind. return on investment

not saying either one is right or wrong, but you get the point.

[Purple Haize]

We want to move up so badly we are attempting to do so with out the proper foundation.

So what did Rocco do if he didn't build the foundation?

Shouldn't we be expecting as good or better than he did since we're building on what he already built?

Rocco didn't build a foundation. He built for immediate gratification. It goes back to the whole how you build your house thing. Rocco was all sizzle without steak.

We want to move up so badly we are attempting to do so with out the proper foundation.

So what did Rocco do if he didn't build the foundation?

Shouldn't we be expecting as good or better than he did since we're building on what he already built?

Exactly. We had five years of foundation already built in. This is not a situation where we are trying to go from 1-10 to winning the FCS national championship.

The foundation of which you speak was non existent. Did Gill have more talent than Rocco did his first year? Yep, but not by much. Karcher had some solid players here and there for all of his faults. Neither were presented with a roster on the verge of an FCS championship, let alone a play off birth.
Sometimes it's good to have patience

[Purple Haize]

The coach was on the hot seat with most of the fan base and some in the administration before the season started.

The same administration that said we are FBS ready? They have been wanting to do 1-A/FBS for over a decade, and haven't gotten it done. If they are putting TG on the hot seat, their seat must be an inferno.

[ludlpstudent]

The fact of the matter is we should be disappointed with the results over the last 5 to 7 years. Who ever heard of being satisfied with sharing a title. In my opinion if we share a title but someone else goes to the playoffs we are not a true champion. With all that being said If TG doesn't improve and get us to the playoffs then he will be replaced not anything other than its part of the business. Its all about what can you do for me now mentality that has over taken sports in general. Take Jerry Moore former app state coach. He won 3 national championships but when the championships runs ended they pushed him out. It happens its part of the game.

[JK37]

...its part of the business. Its all about what can you do for me now mentality that has over taken sports in general...

But does it have to be? For every Jerry Moore, I can find a Mike Krzyzewski: a record in first three years that would be termination-worthy by today's standards, yet success found when patience was shown by powers that be.

[JK37]

By the way, count me in the camp of those believing it sheer lunacy to consider lighting even a meager match under TG's seat.

[Purple Haize]

The fact of the matter is we should be disappointed with the results over the last 5 to 7 years. Who ever heard of being satisfied with sharing a title. In my opinion if we share a title but someone else goes to the playoffs we are not a true champion. With all that being said If TG doesn't improve and get us to the playoffs then he will be replaced not anything other than its part of the business. Its all about what can you do for me now mentality that has over taken sports in general. Take Jerry Moore former app state coach. He won 3 national championships but when the championships runs ended they pushed him out. It happens its part of the game.

If winning were only about money we'd be a power house.
Money doesn't buy success
We've proved that

[Purple Haize]

...its part of the business. Its all about what can you do for me now mentality that has over taken sports in general...

But does it have to be? For every Jerry Moore, I can find a Mike Krzyzewski: a record in first three years that would be termination-worthy by today's standards, yet success found when patience was shown by powers that be.

There were also ther reasons Moore was shown the door that had nothing to do with W-L

By the way, count me in the camp of those believing it sheer lunacy to consider lighting even a meager match under TG's seat.

Heck, I'm in the camp of Get The Guy an Umbrella for Shade and Nice Cool Beverage.

[jbock13]

I love LFSN. Now I either have to watch it on 13.2 (non-HD) or online. Great.

[flameshaw]

Gill ain't going nowhere, nor should he. We have been one game away from the playoffs at least a half dozen times. TG gets at least two more years to get us there. He is a very good fit for LU.

[SuperJon]

I don't think he should be fired by any means, but there needs to be pressure on him. We brought him here to win, not finish behind Coastal. They changed coaches the same time we did and have caught us, passed us, and moved further than we've ever been.

[Purple Haize]

I don't think he should be fired by any means, but there needs to be pressure on him. We brought him here to win, not finish behind Coastal. They changed coaches the same time we did and have caught us, passed us, and moved further than we've ever been.

Coastal has also been pretty solid for years,so that's not a good comparison. If it were Presbyterian or Gardner Webb you'd have a better point. The only pressure on him should be what he puts on himself, which I would wager is more than enough pressure for anyone.

[bluejacket]

The foundation of which you speak was non existent. Did Gill have more talent than Rocco did his first year? Yep, but not by much. Karcher had some solid players here and there for all of his faults. Neither were presented with a roster on the verge of an FCS championship, let alone a play off birth.
Sometimes it's good to have patience

Completely inaccurate statement. Neither had a team ready to win an FCS championship, but Gill definitely had a team ready to make the playoffs when he got here.

[bluejacket]

I don't think he should be fired by any means, but there needs to be pressure on him. We brought him here to win, not finish behind Coastal. They changed coaches the same time we did and have caught us, passed us, and moved further than we've ever been.

Bingo. Charleston Southern is getting much better as well.