[Purple Haize]

I absolutely think you can blame the coach for injuries. Some coaches are known having the well conditioned teams (check out VCU). Layer has the power to keep the team in the up-most condition. There have been a lot of injuries ever since he's been here.

Even if you don't want to blame the coach for the injuries, you're still just creating an excuse. The great coaches find ways to win regardless of injuries.

A coach can reduce the chance of certain types of injuries but to say they can be blamed for injuries is just silly

[Lburglifer]

I absolutely think you can blame the coach for injuries. Some coaches are known having the well conditioned teams (check out VCU). Layer has the power to keep the team in the up-most condition. There have been a lot of injuries ever since he's been here.

Even if you don't want to blame the coach for the injuries, you're still just creating an excuse. The great coaches find ways to win regardless of injuries.

A coach can reduce the chance of certain types of injuries but to say they can be blamed for injuries is just silly

VAGolf did qualify himself with, "Even if you don't want to blame the coach for the injuries, you're still just creating an excuse. The great coaches find ways to win regardless of injuries." Regardless of injuries, choosing to play his son over recruiting in a player...as I look at the facts yesterday Layer's finishes in BSC only surpass the lowly four years on Hankinson. Maybe our admin is content with high dollar middle of the pack Big South play.

[Purple Haize]

I'm giving this another
If a coach loses 2 of his top 3 players they are going to have a difficult time winning. Take 2 starters off any team and you will see struggles. Take 3 top players out and you are in a world of hurt (pardon the pun)

[olldflame]

I was the one who brought up the injury to Ogukwe, and I did it specifically to contest the assertion by jinxy that he was a Layer recruiting "whiff". We were excited to sign him and excited about his prospects to be a very good player up to the point he was hurt. Like Purple said, a coaching staff can do some things to lower the risk of certain injuries, but only to a degree, and they obviously cannot predict whether a player is going to get hurt during the recruiting process. At the risk of opening a can of worms, if we are going to question the conditioning of one of our athletic teams, maybe it should be the team that blew 3 4th quarter leads last season and had members of this board commenting about how they looked like they were "gassed". But of course that would imply that "Kill Bill" had not gotten the job done, and does not actually walk on water.

[BJWilliams]

Forgive my following you down this rabbit trail but even as a pro "Kill Bill" guy, I havent said he "walks on water". The man is good I will agree...but we dont know what he does with the guys as far as the program (maybe kick49 can offer insight as a former player)

[VAGolf]

But we aren't talking about one or two injuries. To my knowledge, we've always had injury problems since Layer took over. All I'm saying is this, from the great teams, or even most of the good teams, you don't hear much about injuries ruining a season. Either certain players step up or the injuries don't happen. I don't think that's a coincidence. If it is a coincidence, then why are certain coaches going above and beyond to ensure that their teams are in top notch condition? Why do some coaches consistently struggle with injuries and other coaches hardly ever have injury problems? And again, we aren't just talking about this being a problem for one or two season, this has been a consistent problem with Layer. I'll give a coach a pass the first or second time, but I've heard this excuse every season since he's been here.

[Purple Haize]

But we aren't talking about one or two injuries. To my knowledge, we've always had injury problems since Layer took over. All I'm saying is this, from the great teams, or even most of the good teams, you don't hear much about injuries ruining a season. Either certain players step up or the injuries don't happen. I don't think that's a coincidence. If it is a coincidence, then why are certain coaches going above and beyond to ensure that their teams are in top notch condition? Why do some coaches consistently struggle with injuries and other coaches hardly ever have injury problems? And again, we aren't just talking about this being a problem for one or two season, this has been a consistent problem with Layer. I'll give a coach a pass the first or second time, but I've heard this excuse every season since he's been here.

It sort of is a coincidence. Again I ask you to take out 2 key contributors from any team and see how they fare. How are the Lakers doing without Kobe? The Bulls without Rose?

[VAGolf]

Well, with the Lakers I could argue that they're having a managing problem. They have absolutely no pieces on that team besides Kobe and they just signed him to a dumb contract. Yes, the Lakers would be terrible without Kobe (although, they don't look that good with him). But I can still put the blame on the management for building a team around one guy. Chicago is still a playoff team without Rose. They actually remain competitive despite injuries. Are they a championship team? Absolutely not. But they don't tank based on the injury of their best player.

[Lburglifer]

Who can argue the fact that this program is in decline. We have average BSC level talent at best. What is out of conference record vs D1 last two years? Losing record in BSC over last three seasons whether it is recruiting, injuries or coach. Who is responsible?

[Purple Haize]

Well, with the Lakers I could argue that they're having a managing problem. They have absolutely no pieces on that team besides Kobe and they just signed him to a dumb contract. Yes, the Lakers would be terrible without Kobe (although, they don't look that good with him). But I can still put the blame on the management for building a team around one guy. Chicago is still a playoff team without Rose. They actually remain competitive despite injuries. Are they a championship team? Absolutely not. But they don't tank based on the injury of their best player.

Yet the injury is what they all point to as the reason why they aren't a Champioship team. Those were broad examples. But again take 2 top players off any roster and you will see a team struggle.

[olldflame]

Forgive my following you down this rabbit trail but even as a pro "Kill Bill" guy, I havent said he "walks on water". The man is good I will agree...but we dont know what he does with the guys as far as the program (maybe kick49 can offer insight as a former player)

Bill Gillespie is an outstanding S&C coach and a world class power lifter in his own right as well as a Liberty alum and a man of God. Hard to imagine there is anyone better for the job. I would be very surprised and disappointed however if I were to hear that he did not take a large degree of personal responsibility for those 4th quarter collapses and take action to find out why it happened and what we can do better to prevent it from happening again.

As far as the walks on water reference is concerned, I think the very fact that as far as I can tell this is the first mention of the possibility that our 4th quarter problems in football may be an issue with our S&C program is telling.

[Chris Lang]

I'm sorry, this talk about Layer being responsible for injuries is ridiculous. It's one thing if we're talking about nagging injuries like hamstrings that have to do with inferior conditioning. But John Brown and Sommy Ogukwe suffered devastating knee injuries during innocuous situations. They were flukes. Joel Vander Pol is a slim, 6-11 guy who had bad discs in his back that required two surgeries to fix. And that's somehow on Layer? Is it Scott Cherry's fault that John Brown missed the Big South tournament last year? Is it Nick McDevitt's fault that three of his key players at Asheville got hurt in October and November and missed the season? Is it Coach K's fault that Kyrie Irving suffered a fluke toe injury and missed nearly his entire year at Duke?

[Chippy]

I'm sorry, this talk about Layer being responsible for injuries is ridiculous. It's one thing if we're talking about nagging injuries like hamstrings that have to do with inferior conditioning. But John Brown and Sommy Ogukwe suffered devastating knee injuries during innocuous situations. They were flukes. Joel Vander Pol is a slim, 6-11 guy who had bad discs in his back that required two surgeries to fix. And that's somehow on Layer? Is it Scott Cherry's fault that John Brown missed the Big South tournament last year? Is it Nick McDevitt's fault that three of his key players at Asheville got hurt in October and November and missed the season? Is it Coach K's fault that Kyrie Irving suffered a fluke toe injury and missed nearly his entire year at Duke?

Agreed. The problem with us and most BSC teams one injury to a starter changes everything. Look at Alan Chaney and HPU or the examples above. Injuries happen by chance, having had 3 L knee surgeries in my time playing (only 1 ACL) I can attest to that - it has very little to do with coaching/conditioning.The difference with the big boys is that they have 2-3 McDonald's All-American on the bench.

[DB89]

Does Ethan being on the floor, even without a scholarship, foster resentment from the other, more talented players on the team? I am sorry for having to ask the question, but in the games I've watched it's been obvious Ethan doesn't have the talent to take playing time over other members of the team. As difficult as it is to ask, the question has to be anticipated anyway given the circumstances. I'm open to a new way of looking at the situation.

[olldflame]

Does Ethan being on the floor, even without a scholarship, foster resentment from the other, more talented players on the team? I am sorry for having to ask the question, but in the games I've watched it's been obvious Ethan doesn't have the talent to take playing time over other members of the team. As difficult as it is to ask, the question has to be anticipated anyway given the circumstances. I'm open to a new way of looking at the situation.

We have 4 guards on our bench. Joe Retic sees the most PT with 16 min/gm, but he is a PG, and really in a different category. the other 3 are all primarily 3 point shooters. Layer is getting 8 min/gm, Roberts 6 and Donley 2. I would say that based on their productivity this year Roberts deserves to play more and I think that is going to happen. Ethan has simply not shot the ball as well as he did 2 years ago and now is dealing with a bad back. IMHO Donley was perhaps Layers worst recruiting mistake in 5 years; a one trick poney who can only perform his trick about 30% of the time. He came here with an associate degree and has had 2 years on the basketball dime to get his BS. If he isn't on track to graduate or nearly so, he has noone to blame but himself. If I were DL I would not have a bit of regret in giving that schollie next year to a recruit who can actually help us.

[Bigsouthking]

I hope Donley doesn't read this message board, you guys should ashamed of how you bash him. Seriously.

[Purple Haize]

I hope Donley doesn't read this message board, you guys should ashamed of how you bash him. Seriously.

He can stick the open jumper. Can't guard, can't handle, can't create his shot at this level. How is that bashing him?

[flamehunter]

It's called motivational material.

[Purple Haize]

It's called motivational material.

[BJWilliams]

Im rather offended by the OP but more because it was assumed that people would hate the post. I really didnt hate what was said...a lot of people (myself included) probably would agree with some part of it if not the whole thing.

[olldflame]

I hope Donley doesn't read this message board, you guys should ashamed of how you bash him. Seriously.

He is supposed to be able to stick the open jumper but is shooting just 31% from 3 over 2 seasons. Can't guard, can't handle, can't create his shot at this level. How is that bashing him?

FIFY

I have no problem with him reading it, because unless he is delusional, he knows it's true. He has been a bust to this point. Now if his schollie is renewed, he certainly will have an opportunity to prove us wrong next year because with Marshall, JC and Roberts all graduating we are going to need perimeter shooting from someone.