[SuperJon]

Wow.

[BJWilliams]

Forget it...youre right, we are horrible people and no conference will ever take us...there happy?

[Wilberforce91]

And it was at that point the things shifted: we all bought it.

I think you hit the nail on the head Jon. I have loved Liberty athletics since I decided to attend Liberty when I was a senior in high school in 2008, and I'll say that I bought into it. The marketing bit, the newspaper articles, #FBSReady - it all worked together to make it seem like we had arrived, when we're at least at the same place we were in 2008 (if not behind - we did beat #11 Elon that year), albeit with nicer digs. It was a false hope of raising expectations that has led to a dissatisfied fan base.

I don't think it's wrong to improve our facilities, but I do think it's wrong to advertise that we're FBS material when we've had very little on field/court success to justify it. I think we have a lot of potential for FBS, but to say we'll be competitive when we can't win the Big South outright is definitely a stretch.

As far as fan involvement goes, I don't know what the remedy is, other than winning consistently. I would say building a dome, but basketball has the same problem, and it's in a climate-controlled covered arena. I will say that although there are problems with our student section (non-involvement, leaving at the half, etc), it is larger and more involved than other schools I've visited (Wake & Richmond come to mind, and I would even dare to say App State). It's a double-edged sword - we Liberty students/alumni/fans need to be proud of our school, but our teams need to give us something to be proud of (moral victories don't count).

All that said, Coastal shook me up. I couldn't watch NFL games the next day because even thinking of football made me sick to my stomach, I was so emotionally invested in that game. But Liberty will always be my team. I'll be at the next few games, and will be in Chapel Hill wearing Liberty red in 2014, even though I grew up as a die-hard Tar Heel.

Thanks for your thoughts Jon, and thanks FlameFans/FlamesNation for the opportunity to share mine. GO FLAMES!

[LUminary]

4. Politics.
Actually, it's the No. 1 reason. You touched on it in No. 3. Being a conservative Christian school that has loudly and proudly stood for its beliefs is the overriding reason for no invite.

[Purple Haize]

Forget it...youre right, we are horrible people and no conference will ever take us...there happy?

Way to go Mr Nihilist

[Sly Fox]

There is an air of truth in everything SJ shared. My perception is that those three points may be a tad overstated and one key point may be higher than any of the three ... the perception of our mission and our resulting academic reputation. It is my opinion that our positions on creation and homosexuality are bigger barriers than our perceived athletic facility arrogance. Those two issues are huge to the folks who make the conference decisions (i.e. Academia). But again, I think it is all open to debate.

[Purple Haize]

There is an air of truth in everything SJ shared. My perception is that those three points may be a tad overstated and one key point may be higher than any of the three ... the perception of our mission and our resulting academic reputation. It is my opinion that our positions on creation and homosexuality are bigger barriers than our perceived athletic facility arrogance. Those two issues are huge to the folks who make the conference decisions (i.e. Academia). But again, I think it is all open to debate.

You have no LightBulb emoticon but if you did if use it here

They 4th point could be Credibility. Do we have it in the classroom? academia? Athletic field? Etc.

[Chris Lang]

The classroom? No. Speaking as someone who is a university outsider who knows a lot of people outside of the Liberty bubble, a Liberty degree is not held in very high regard. That's changing gradually as the programs evolve.

[Purple Haize]

The classroom? No. Speaking as someone who is a university outsider who knows a lot of people outside of the Liberty bubble, a Liberty degree is not held in very high regard. That's changing gradually as the programs evolve.

Ok. So that's 1 'No' vote hater!

[bluedevilflame]

4. Politics.
Actually, it's the No. 1 reason. You touched on it in No. 3. Being a conservative Christian school that has loudly and proudly stood for its beliefs is the overriding reason for no invite.

I disagree with the Christian part, I don't think that matters in the least. Our outspoken politics over the years and the the perception of Jerry Falwell, whether factual or not, is what keeps people at arms length from us, not religion itself. Religion hasn't hurt BYU, Baylor, or Notre Dame.

[SuperJon]

I may be the minority, but I truly believe that if we offered enough on the field, the off the field stuff could be overlooked. The problem is we don't offer nearly enough on the field. We are positioned behind the 8-ball. For us to get past all of the extra baggage that comes with our school, we have to make the on the field product worth overlooking the off the field stuff.

[TH Spangler]

This site has over 2000 members and only 6 people post?

[01LUGrad]

This site has over 2000 members and only 6 people post? :I chortle audibly.:

7

[Purple Haize]

This site has over 2000 members and only 6 people post? :I chortle audibly.:

I'm large enough to count for 2

[Kolzilla41]

And it was at that point the things shifted: we all bought it.

I think you hit the nail on the head Jon. I have loved Liberty athletics since I decided to attend Liberty when I was a senior in high school in 2008, and I'll say that I bought into it. The marketing bit, the newspaper articles, #FBSReady - it all worked together to make it seem like we had arrived, when we're at least at the same place we were in 2008 (if not behind - we did beat #11 Elon that year), albeit with nicer digs. It was a false hope of raising expectations that has led to a dissatisfied fan base.
I
I don't think it's wrong to improve our facilities, but I do think it's wrong to advertise that we're FBS material when we've had very little on field/court success to justify it. I think we have a lot of potential for FBS, but to say we'll be competitive when we can't win the Big South outright is definitely a stretch.

As far as fan involvement goes, I don't know what the remedy is, other than winning consistently. I would say building a dome, but basketball has the same problem, and it's in a climate-controlled covered arena. I will say that although there are problems with our student section (non-involvement, leaving at the half, etc), it is larger and more involved than other schools I've visited (Wake & Richmond come to mind, and I would even dare to say App State). It's a double-edged sword - we Liberty students/alumni/fans need to be proud of our school, but our teams need to give us something to be proud of (moral victories don't count).

All that said, Coastal shook me up. I couldn't watch NFL games the next day because even thinking of football made me sick to my stomach, I was so emotionally invested in that game. But Liberty will always be my team. I'll be at the next few games, and will be in Chapel Hill wearing Liberty red in 2014, even though I grew up as a die-hard Tar Heel.

Thanks for your thoughts Jon, and thanks FlameFans/FlamesNation for the opportunity to share mine. GO FLAMES!

This! This is exactly how I felt. I invested myself in every aspect into Liberty athletics that it felt like my heart was pulled out and stomped. I can't imagine what the players felt. I want Liberty to succeed and think very highly of all the Athletic staff but we cannot continue to preform this way. I don't want to turn into Clemson.

[thepostman]

I think you summed it up pretty well. The sad thing is there is no going back so all we really can do is win and we aren't doing a good job at that.

[PAmedic]

Hoping some of the administration that reads this site reads this in the spirit it is intended, and takes it to heart.

I hope so but I'm not holding my breath. They'll probably think I'm an even worse person than they already do and will push me further down the black list.

sometimes, those with absolute power aren't used to being told they can't have their way

see:

Rule #1: the boss is always right
Rule #2: when the boss is wrong, see rule #1

hypothetically- its even worse when you are in an environment where people truly believe God ordained them to do something. how can you tell them they might be wrong?

not directed at anyone specifically.

great. now I'm on the list too.

[flameshaw]

You have always been on the list.

[LUnpretty11]

Pointing fingers at admin, or those that make the decisions on the direction of our great university, does nothing for anybody. It's easy because we're NOT the ones making those decisions and when things don't go the way they are expected to then there is disappointment. When expectations and reality don't match up disappointment always floods in. I am not saying i am not disappointed, because everyone should be disappointed with how our top 3 sports have pumped out 2 post season appearances in the last 7 years, which came in the last year (baseball & basketball). Jeff Barber came in and changed the culture our where our university is heading in and changed the mindset of what we can do with athletics. It is his fault for raising the bar of where we should be and what our expectations should be. But that's a good thing he has done. He has changed the culture. The problem is though, that sometimes it takes a while to establish yourself while the culture is changing. SJ, you're right, we have to be patient. Everyone knows that, but knowing it and letting it happen are two different things. If it's Christian it should be better, and that's what Barber has instilled in everyone in the athletic department, and what Jerry Jr. has instilled in the university. Now, to that point, we are much better now than we were 8 years ago. Football hasn't had a losing season since '05. Basketball broke the 10 year theme by making the tournament last year and set a record (I believe) for wins in a season back in '08. Baseball has set all-time win records as well. The problem is we have made great progress, and created a culture of expectation of excellence, but haven't made it yet. So we are in that tweener stage. It sucks. But now is not the time to jump ship, stop funding, and not being a part of the Flames Club. NOW is the time to keep funding, keep pushing forward, and upgrading your Flames Club membership. Why? Because we are in a great place. We have an attitude and expectation of achieving excellence and as long as you keep that attitude and expectation then you will achieve what you are shooting for. Set expectations high, and they will be achieved. I am not happy with how this football season has gone, but I am VERY excited for the direction we are heading in as a whole. Baseball is going to continue to get better, basketball is going to continue to get better, softball is going to dominate in the next few years and football... Football is going to be a top tier perennial powerhouse. Right now we are a top tier contender who can't quite break through. Baseball did last year, so did basketball. Football is next. My expectation was that it the breakthrough would be this year, but it hasn't been. That does not keep me from expecting us to succeed and achieve excellence, because we will. Keep pressing forward.

GO FLAMES!!!!

[Purple Haize]

Pointing fingers at admin, or those that make the decisions on the direction of our great university, does nothing for anybody. It's easy because we're NOT the ones making those decisions and when things don't go the way they are expected to then there is disappointment. When expectations and reality don't match up disappointment always floods in. I am not saying i am not disappointed, because everyone should be disappointed with how our top 3 sports have pumped out 2 post season appearances in the last 7 years, which came in the last year (baseball & basketball). Jeff Barber came in and changed the culture our where our university is heading in and changed the mindset of what we can do with athletics. It is his fault for raising the bar of where we should be and what our expectations should be. But that's a good thing he has done. He has changed the culture. The problem is though, that sometimes it takes a while to establish yourself while the culture is changing. SJ, you're right, we have to be patient. Everyone knows that, but knowing it and letting it happen are two different things. If it's Christian it should be better, and that's what Barber has instilled in everyone in the athletic department, and what Jerry Jr. has instilled in the university. Now, to that point, we are much better now than we were 8 years ago. Football hasn't had a losing season since '05. Basketball broke the 10 year theme by making the tournament last year and set a record (I believe) for wins in a season back in '08. Baseball has set all-time win records as well. The problem is we have made great progress, and created a culture of expectation of excellence, but haven't made it yet. So we are in that tweener stage. It sucks. But now is not the time to jump ship, stop funding, and not being a part of the Flames Club. NOW is the time to keep funding, keep pushing forward, and upgrading your Flames Club membership. Why? Because we are in a great place. We have an attitude and expectation of achieving excellence and as long as you keep that attitude and expectation then you will achieve what you are shooting for. Set expectations high, and they will be achieved. I am not happy with how this football season has gone, but I am VERY excited for the direction we are heading in as a whole. Baseball is going to continue to get better, basketball is going to continue to get better, softball is going to dominate in the next few years and football... Football is going to be a top tier perennial powerhouse. Right now we are a top tier contender who can't quite break through. Baseball did last year, so did basketball. Football is next. My expectation was that it the breakthrough would be this year, but it hasn't been. That does not keep me from expecting us to succeed and achieve excellence, because we will. Keep pressing forward.

GO FLAMES!!!!

The expectations have always been high. We've been clamor in got be FBS for 20 years. At some point you have to ask yourself why aren't those expectations being met.

[SuperJon]

There was actually a seven year plan to go FBS that started in 2002 (I think) that Karcher had put on paper.

[Purple Haize]

There was actually a seven year plan to go FBS that started in 2002 (I think) that Karcher had put on paper.

I knew about it in 98 but the first codification that I saw was under KK and it was a 5-7 year timeline. It's why we played 2 1A (at the time) schools a year.

[SuperJon]

I started working for the football team in the spring of 07 and that would've been the 5th or 6th year of it. I guess that puts it at starting around 2000 or so.

[Purple Haize]

I started working for the football team in the spring of 07 and that would've been the 5th or 6th year of it. I guess that puts it at starting around 2000 or so.

Yeah, we are sort of behind schedule

[BJWilliams]

Course going 1-10 and Karcher getting fired kinda changes things a bit...